bunny momma
Wise Old Thumper
It was nice to read his blood work showed no kidney issue. Sending more vibes his biopsy will show nothing to worry about.
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Opinion on Mouth Ulcer / Kidney Failure
- Thread starter LilyBarney
- Start date
LilyBarney
Young Bun
The wait for biopsy results is horrendous.
Barney is still being fed through a nose tube. He won't eat for himself, I guess his mouth is still very sore. I don't know, the only thing I've learnt about ulcers is from this forum.
Barney is still being fed through a nose tube. He won't eat for himself, I guess his mouth is still very sore. I don't know, the only thing I've learnt about ulcers is from this forum.
LilyBarney
Young Bun
Thank you and thank you everyone else.
I'm hoping he starts eating for himself in the next day or so and I hope the biopsy comes back with a way of treating him
I'm hoping he starts eating for himself in the next day or so and I hope the biopsy comes back with a way of treating him
LilyBarney
Young Bun
No results yet.
The vet I just spoke to seemed pretty pessimistic, saying if it was a tumour then there's nothing they can do.
Even with an ulcer they aren't particularly optimistic as he hasn't eaten on his own for 5 days now
The vet I just spoke to seemed pretty pessimistic, saying if it was a tumour then there's nothing they can do.
Even with an ulcer they aren't particularly optimistic as he hasn't eaten on his own for 5 days now
LilyBarney
Young Bun
Invited in to see my boy Barney 30 minutes ago. It was heartbreaking to see how ill he looked - a feeding tube taped to him, a drip on his ear, he looked really unwell.
He's not eating on his own, but is maintaining weight well. He's weirdly gone up in weight slightly.
I was told histology biopsies can take up to 10 working days. Obviously not what I wanted to hear, we need those results to formulate a plan. My nerves can't handle another 4 or 5 days of waiting
He's not eating on his own, but is maintaining weight well. He's weirdly gone up in weight slightly.
I was told histology biopsies can take up to 10 working days. Obviously not what I wanted to hear, we need those results to formulate a plan. My nerves can't handle another 4 or 5 days of waiting
InspectorMorse
Wise Old Thumper
Poor boy 
The weight gain is probably mostly fluid. Did the Vet say if there has been any sign of the tongue lesion healing? Have they run any more blood tests to see how his kidney and liver function are doing ?
The weight gain is probably mostly fluid. Did the Vet say if there has been any sign of the tongue lesion healing? Have they run any more blood tests to see how his kidney and liver function are doing ?LilyBarney
Young Bun
They haven't run any more blood tests.
I think they're keeping him stable until the biopsy results return as apparently it is almost impossible to see the "ulcer" if he's not under GA.
At first I was led to believe that it was on top of the tongue towards the front but over recent days they've said it's at the back centre, its position meaning it isn't down to the teeth - teeth that looked fine anyway.
I was shocked how ill he looked, I've never seen him like that. Surprisingly the nurse said he'd actually picked up a bit over the last couple of days. He must have looked bad then.
It broke my heart to see him like that, he looked like a different rabbit, if that makes sense.
I'm glad his weight is holding, it gives him a chance to fight it.
Siuna, the rabbit expert vet is hopefully in tomorrow. She might try something different
I think they're keeping him stable until the biopsy results return as apparently it is almost impossible to see the "ulcer" if he's not under GA.
At first I was led to believe that it was on top of the tongue towards the front but over recent days they've said it's at the back centre, its position meaning it isn't down to the teeth - teeth that looked fine anyway.
I was shocked how ill he looked, I've never seen him like that. Surprisingly the nurse said he'd actually picked up a bit over the last couple of days. He must have looked bad then.
It broke my heart to see him like that, he looked like a different rabbit, if that makes sense.
I'm glad his weight is holding, it gives him a chance to fight it.
Siuna, the rabbit expert vet is hopefully in tomorrow. She might try something different
InspectorMorse
Wise Old Thumper
I expect all the tubes made him look worse. Plus he’s probably not too happy to be in hospital. Perhaps Siuna will suggest removing the ng tube. If he is being tube fed he won’t feel hungry so he won’t eat. Plus stress can stop a Rabbit from eating. Being hospitalised and with a ng tube and IV line in for days will be stressful.
LilyBarney
Young Bun
He'd stopped grooming himself so he looked really scruffy with fur matts and a slightly damp eye. It upset me to see him like that, but as you say the tubes, two big bits of tape and an IV bandaged ear made him look so bad.
I'm hoping they maybe have a re-think, try a different antibiotic or try and have a look at his mouth.
Ah, this is a horrible time.
Thanks for the advice and well-wishes everyone.
I'm hoping they maybe have a re-think, try a different antibiotic or try and have a look at his mouth.
Ah, this is a horrible time.
Thanks for the advice and well-wishes everyone.
InspectorMorse
Wise Old Thumper
He won’t want to groom himself with a ng tube in. The VNs should be grooming him
His gunky eye could be ‘dry eye’ after the GA. Made worse because he can’t wash his face. Again the VNs should be bathing his eyes and if necessary applying artificial tear drops. If there is a lot of inflammation in the conjunctiva and white gunk then infection is probably present so he would need antibiotic eye drops.
Hopefully the Rabbit savvy Vet will insure these issues are addressed when she returns to work and sees him.
bunny momma
Wise Old Thumper
Sending more vibes. He will look better once he is back home.
LilyBarney
Young Bun
The other vets where I go have almost always been superb but in regards to rabbits Siuna is spoken about with almost a reverence in West Lancashire. Even though her practice is 30 minutes away from where I live I go to see her almost exclusively, even though she only works 2-3 days a week now.
The nurses have been grooming him, something Barney will hate as he whimpers when I do it for him. The thought of that little whimper is one of those things that upsets me right now.
It's 4am right now and I can't sleep, my stomach turning over in worry
They wanted me to see him yesterday so I could see how poorly he was. I could but it's upsetting me
LilyBarney
Young Bun
Sorry, misquoted the posts
LilyBarney
Young Bun
Barney has been in the vet many times over the years, he suffers badly from gut slowdown from eating his own fur (hence the whimpering when I brush him). Yesterday was the first time I'd been asked in to see him as an inpatient. Immediately your mind asks "why now?" You think they're preparing you for the worst.
I asked the nurse why and she said she wanted me to see how poorly he was. Two vets had also suggested it, I've led awake tonight thinking they're preparing me for the worst. It's absolutely horrible, the constant fretting.
I asked the nurse why and she said she wanted me to see how poorly he was. Two vets had also suggested it, I've led awake tonight thinking they're preparing me for the worst. It's absolutely horrible, the constant fretting.
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InspectorMorse
Wise Old Thumper
Barney has been in the vet many times over the years, he suffers badly from gut slowdown from eating his own fur (hence the whimpering when I brush him). Yesterday was the first time I'd been asked in to see him as an inpatient. Immediately your mind asks "why now?" You think they're preparing you for the worst.
I asked the nurse why and she said she wanted me to see how poorly he was. Two vets had also suggested it, I've led awake tonight thinking they're preparing me for the worst. It's absolutely horrible, the constant fretting.
I would try to have a frank talk with Siuna today if possible. She won’t be able to tell you if the lesion is cancer, but I think you would benefit on hearing her professional opinion on how realistic it is that Barney will recover, even if the lesion isn’t cancer. If it isn’t it should be improving by now, in my unqualified opinion.
I would also ask if removing all the tubes and allowing him home for a day to see how he copes might be an option. As long as you are able to medicate him and be with him all the time. He is probably very depressed now, that alone could be enough for him to want to give up. I have known an apparently very sick Rabbit to turn a corner when allowed home to a familiar environment.
I am assuming that Siuna has ruled out a fungal infection?
You mention that Barney has a history of GI tract hypomotility/gut stasis. Have any abdominal X-rays been done? Also a chest X-ray? The latter to check for any signs of cardiomegaly.
The waiting and not knowing is awful isn’t it. Been there so many times and it never gets any easier. I really hope that Barney can pull through
LilyBarney
Young Bun
They've only done bloods and a biopsy so far.
Like you mentioned the horrible thought lodged in my mind is "why isn't it healing?"
Siuna told me that ulcers healed quickly last week but there hasn't been any improvement. He looked so sad, so ill.
I'll ask about a fungal infection this morning thank you.
I think Siuna (and the team) have just been trying to keep him stable until the results come in as looking at the wound appears to be very difficult. If it comes back and it isn't a cancer then they'll try and formulate a plan of action. I'm going to try to gee along that plan today as Barney can't wait another 3-5 days for something to be done.
When he hit about 2 Barney would develop bouts of stasis, sometimes mild, sometimes very scary (not eating for 10 days his current record). Since I was given some liquid paracetamol and emeprid to give at home then instances have lessened, from approximately 10 last year to 2 this. If I spot a heavy moult or a slight deviation from normal I give him the meds at home.
I just tried phoning the vet as I'm worrying so much but the answering service they use has stopped putting requests through for updates
Like you mentioned the horrible thought lodged in my mind is "why isn't it healing?"
Siuna told me that ulcers healed quickly last week but there hasn't been any improvement. He looked so sad, so ill.
I'll ask about a fungal infection this morning thank you.
I think Siuna (and the team) have just been trying to keep him stable until the results come in as looking at the wound appears to be very difficult. If it comes back and it isn't a cancer then they'll try and formulate a plan of action. I'm going to try to gee along that plan today as Barney can't wait another 3-5 days for something to be done.
When he hit about 2 Barney would develop bouts of stasis, sometimes mild, sometimes very scary (not eating for 10 days his current record). Since I was given some liquid paracetamol and emeprid to give at home then instances have lessened, from approximately 10 last year to 2 this. If I spot a heavy moult or a slight deviation from normal I give him the meds at home.
I just tried phoning the vet as I'm worrying so much but the answering service they use has stopped putting requests through for updates
InspectorMorse
Wise Old Thumper
The things I would want to flag up today
1- Running another in house blood profile to check kidney and liver function. I suspect Liver function *might* now be compromised. This basic blood profile will give immediate results, the blood sample won’t have to be sent off to a Vet Lab
2- Ask about removing the ng tube
3- Ask about him coming home, even if for just a few hours to see if he suddenly rallies at home. I have seen it happen.
4- Ask the Vet to contact the Lab today to chase up the results. Yes, testing for bacteria and antibiotic sensitivity can take up to 10 days, testing for malignancy does not. Testing for sub-types of cancer takes longer, but it should be possible to know if the samples taken show malignancy of some sort within 48 hours. One would assume that a Vet Lab should contact the Vet as soon as a malignancy is confirmed, then the sub type testing can continue but the Vet and client will know ASAP whether they are dealing with cancer or not.
1- Running another in house blood profile to check kidney and liver function. I suspect Liver function *might* now be compromised. This basic blood profile will give immediate results, the blood sample won’t have to be sent off to a Vet Lab
2- Ask about removing the ng tube
3- Ask about him coming home, even if for just a few hours to see if he suddenly rallies at home. I have seen it happen.
4- Ask the Vet to contact the Lab today to chase up the results. Yes, testing for bacteria and antibiotic sensitivity can take up to 10 days, testing for malignancy does not. Testing for sub-types of cancer takes longer, but it should be possible to know if the samples taken show malignancy of some sort within 48 hours. One would assume that a Vet Lab should contact the Vet as soon as a malignancy is confirmed, then the sub type testing can continue but the Vet and client will know ASAP whether they are dealing with cancer or not.
LilyBarney
Young Bun
Thank you, will ask about them.
The only thing probably not worth the risk is bringing him home. It's a 60 minute round-trip and Barney hates it. You can almost hear his heart beating at 200 a minute, you can certainly see it.
The only thing probably not worth the risk is bringing him home. It's a 60 minute round-trip and Barney hates it. You can almost hear his heart beating at 200 a minute, you can certainly see it.
