Opinion on Mouth Ulcer / Kidney Failure

[LilyBarney]

Hello everyone,
I am the owner of a much loved 6 year old lop.
I noticed the other day that he (Barney) was losing a little weight, I kept a close eye on him and saw that whereas he was wolfing down Burgess pellets that he was ignoring hay, veg and also water.
Took him into my vet and they saw today that he had a large mouth ulcer on his tongue. The vet doesn't suspect it is caused by dental problems, both from its location and that his teeth seemed fine.
A sample of his bloods and the ulcer have been sent away for analysis this afternoon. As I'm sure you'll all understand the waiting for the results will be horrible.

The vet mentioned that the checks were for kidney or liver problems. Does anyone have experience of mouth ulcers caused by the kidneys?

The person I am means that I'm sat here thinking that an ulcer caused by something like kidney failure will be curtains for my little boy, so am researching all I can, looking for hope really.

Thanks.

 

[Shimmer]

The back teeth can't be seen properly in a conscious rabbit. My feeling is that there is probably a dental issue. As the teeth are continually growing and he's not eating hay or grass, it's going to escalate fairly quickly (ie in weeks rather than months).

I would wait for the blood results and take it from there. Meanwhile, I would look at doing top up syringe feeds with one of the recovery powders that you mix up with water (Oxbow Critical Care, Supreme Recovery, etc). If he's not been offered it, try grass as well. Maybe cut it up into smaller pieces (a few mm) so he doesn't need to chew it as much. Veg can also be cut up or grated to make it easier to eat. Keeping his weight up and guts stable will help a lot.

I hope he's been given some pain relief to be given daily at home (eg Metacam). It can make a huge difference in what they will eat. A damaged tongue is going to be very sore.

 

[LilyBarney]

Thanks for the reply.
Barney is in the vet (has been since 3am Tuesday). He's being given painkillers, gut stimulants and now antibiotics for the ulcer. He's also being syringe fed and given subcutaneous fluids as he's obviously dehydrated.

The vet put him under GA today, saw his teeth looked fine but that the large ulcer on the front of his tongue was undoubtedly the reason he hadn't been eating/drinking.

She has however scared me to death by saying that as the teeth aren't the problem that she suspects kidney or liver issues. I'd never heard of this link before and have spent the last few hours worrying about the blood results. She didn't rule out the ulcer being caused by him biting on some sharp bit of hay but I'm sure I'm not alone in panicking about worse case scenarios

 

[InspectorMorse]

I have known of a case of a Rabbit who developed a large ulcer on her tongue which the Vet attributed to acute renal failure.But this wasn’t the only symptom, she was very obviously unwell- anorexic, gut stasis, no urine output and an odd smell from her mouth, like pear drops. Her kidneys could be felt as being very enlarged and painful. Apparently the Rabbit had ingested a toxin, but I don’t know what. She was very unwell for several days and was hospitalised for IV fluids, treatment for gut stasis and syringe feeding. Her prognosis was initially very poor, but she did eventually recover.

 

[LilyBarney]

Barney is getting all the TLC at the vets. They saw him often last year, as he was constantly getting stasis-like symptoms.
He was still wolfing down pellets on Monday evening, I took him in though as the the drop off in hay consumption was worrying. Combined with the slight drop in weight (2kg - 1.92kg) I wasn't happy with how he was.
The vet confirmed it is one large ulcer, as well as blood tests a sample of it has been sent for biopsy.

I have taken some heart from reading this forum tonight in that mouth ulcers don't necessarily mean kidney failure (someone said it's usually many smaller ulcers) and that kidney problems aren't necessarily "short-term terminal".

I've only ever lost 2 buns before, both to kidney problems but they were both very sudden, one due to EC and one seemingly inherited from birth.


I just hate the wait, not knowing until the blood results come back, hopefully on Friday.

 

[bunny momma]

Some kidney issues are from treatable infections, dehydration, or can be controlled with meds or fluid therapy.
Plus, his ulcer may be unrelated to his kidneys.
Others have given you great advice. I am
sending positive vibes for your bunny.

 

[LilyBarney]

Thanks for all the advice. And the vibes

 

[Pets mum]

So sorry to hear that little Barney has a mouth ulcer, hope it heals quickly and you get the results soon, and he is back home. Adding my vibes for him xx

 

[LilyBarney]

Thanks for the vibes.

My brilliant rabbit-savvy vet just gave me an update, they've put a tube to feed him through his nose to avoid the painful area. He doesn't seem to mind it.
The ulcer is very large on the side of his tongue but was definitely not caused by his teeth in their opinion. My vet thinks the biopsy will be key as she can't tell if it is an ulcer or actually a tumour.

 

[InspectorMorse]

Thanks for the vibes.

My brilliant rabbit-savvy vet just gave me an update, they've put a tube to feed him through his nose to avoid the painful area. He doesn't seem to mind it.
The ulcer is very large on the side of his tongue but was definitely not caused by his teeth in their opinion. My vet thinks the biopsy will be key as she can't tell if it is an ulcer or actually a tumour.

I was going to mention the possibility of a tumour, but didn’t want to do so and scare you even more. I had a Rabbit with what was thought to be a large ulcer on his cheek. But a biopsy revealed it to be a Fibrosarcoma. This type of tumour is cancerous but tends not to spread to other parts of the body. Removal of the tumour might be an option, but they often grow back. My Rabbit had two surgeries to remove the tumour. But when it grew back a third time I had to let him go. He did still get about 18 months of good quality life after initial diagnosis. When he passed he was 12 years of age.

 

[LilyBarney]

Thanks for the info. I think I automatically assume a tumour means the end in a pet as I have no experience of it. I'm hoping the antibiotics will shrink it over the next couple of days because obviously they'd have no effect on anything cancerous.
They've put 'Urgent' on his bloods so hopefully they'll be back today.

 

[Omi]

Sending lots of vibes for your precious Barney.

 

[Shimmer]

I've had a rabbit with an oral growth and various dental issues & abscesses (not on the tongue, though). She was treated surgically for her dental issues and abscesses. The abnormal area didn't really cause additional issues to the others - it was complicated anyway. She was on long term pain relief and antibiotics (an injectable penicillin) at home. Her food was modified so she could eat it - softened, grated, syringe fed, whatever worked. She still had a good quality of life and lived about another year. She was only 'poorly' for the last couple of days.

It's also worth considering asking for a second opinion from a rabbit specialist vet. Initially, that could mean just sending through the results you have and take it from there.

I hope you find a way forward that works for you both.

 

[LilyBarney]

Thank you.
I'm lucky to have a brilliant rabbit savvy vet in West Lancs. She's already saved Barney's life twice when other vets gave up. She also removed two ear abcesses in my other rabbit Lily. She's great
I guess I'll just have to wait for results. It could be a trauma injury or something more worrying. Hard to wait though.

 

[joey&boo]

The waiting is always horrible. I hope the results come through soon & offer some reassurance

 

[LilyBarney]

My vet just rang about Barney - his bloods show his kidneys are fine.
So hopefully it's just an ulcer, though I guess there is still a chance it could be a tumour. Thankfully I'm a bit less fatalistic about it now.

 

[InspectorMorse]

Glad to hear that his blood test results are OK. Hopefully the ulcer on his tongue is nothing sinister and that it will soon heal.

 

[LilyBarney]

Thanks for the well wishes everyone.
Barney is still in the vet, they're waiting for the biopsy results.
The head vet said it could be many things but time is needed to grow cultures and test what works against it.
I had the same thing with both my rabbits after the removal of ear abcesses.

 

[joey&boo]

you must be missing him lots. good news about the bloods, hope the biopsy is just as positive

 

[LilyBarney]

Yeah, they've been with me through a divorce, a pandemic and countless other episodes.
I hate either of them not being here.