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OMG No :( B&G just had a fight, literally, 2 minutes ago :( *sob* UD - Neutralisation

GrahamL

GrahamL

Wise Old Thumper
OMG No :( B&G just had a fight, literally, 2 minutes ago :( *sob* UD - Neutralisation

They have free-range of the whole downstairs and upstairs now during the day.

This has been like it for 3 days now so i'd assume territory has been marked etc.

They were happy as larry all night last night, nothing changed, routine the same as always.

Let them out at 6:30am this morning as usual, came upstairs for work at 8:15am, they followed me up the stairs as usual and have been bombing around for the last 30 minutes.

Top of the stairs, i just heard scuffling, assumed it was them playing, looked over and Biscuit was locked on to Ginger, ears back and Ginger was trying to lock on to him :cry:

I seperated them both, put Ginger a good 2 feet away from Biscuit, while i checked them both over as best i could.

Ginger then ran through my leg, and mounted Biscuit's head and just started humping like a maniac.

Biscuit flipped around and has humped her like, majorly, similar to when i was bonding them.

Biscuit groomed Ginger's head and they are now flopped outside my room :? :roll:

Now trying not to over catastrophise, and thinking about this logically.

Ginger's NOT the dominant bunny. Not in any way, shape or form.

The ONLY change has been the additional territory, but they've had access to it for 3 days now?

I've checked them both over, it looks like they only had each other by fur. I can't find any skin marks or anything (i'm getting good at checking under fur, because of Ginger's depocillin jabs im giving her).

Would you take both to the vets, just in case? Or would you monitor? I'll take them if even a single person recommends it, i don't care about the money.
 
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Good grief, i would have been panicking like nothing else!

I don't have advice, but i really hope it was a one off. My two can be pushy with one another at dinner time, but never a real fight (fingers crossed)
 
It might have been the change in territory or just a bit of spring fever - buns can hump quite relentlessly at times and it's no wonder the other doesn't always want to be humped.

I would say to just keep a very close eye on them as you've already checked thoroughly for broken skin - abscesses can form very quickly with bites so you would soon notice if there's one that you've missed.

I hope peace can be restored. :)
 
Personally if there are no wounds I would just keep an eye on them. How long have they been bonded now?
If it hasn't been that long I would probably restrict their free ranging to downstairs for a couple of days.

Sounds like a lovers tiff to me :roll: I'm sure they will get over it, but I would just keep an extra close eye on them to make sure :)
 
Lock on fighting is not spring fever. Mounting and dominance displays and sudden energy are all spring fever reactions, but if it turns into lock on fighting this is different and it shouldn't escalate like this if everything is ok in the bond. Something has upset them, I would be surprised if it were the increased space to be honest if they have had this gradually increased and they have been bonded for a while now. :? But it is a possibility if this is the most space they have ever had? How long have they been bonded now?
My feelings are that it could be health related and one bunny not feeling very well or the other one sensing it. Are you certain there are no other smells in the house from other rabbits?

How is Ginger's health? Is she doing ok?

Rule of thumb if this happens again would be to put them straight back in the dog crate (their reduced shared territory) and it should calm down, and leave them there for a few hours. I had to do this when Poppy and Nino had a lock on fight and it wouldn't stop. It was redirected aggression due to the smell of another rabbit on the lawn.

ETA I would put them back in the dog crate/pen set up and leave them there until next free range time, check them carefully for wounds and just monitor for now - especially both for signs of ill health. :wave:
 
I'm sure they'll be fine - 2 of mine were humping their OH heads this morning- must be something in the air!! :lol:
 
prettylupin said:
Lock on fighting is not spring fever. Mounting and dominance displays and sudden energy are all spring fever reactions, but if it turns into lock on fighting this is different and it shouldn't escalate like this if everything is ok in the bond. Something has upset them, I would be surprised if it were the increased space to be honest if they have had this gradually increased and they have been bonded for a while now. :? But it is a possibility if this is the most space they have ever had? How long have they been bonded now?
My feelings are that it could be health related and one bunny not feeling very well or the other one sensing it. Are you certain there are no other smells in the house from other rabbits?

How is Ginger's health? Is she doing ok?

Rule of thumb if this happens again would be to put them straight back in the dog crate (their reduced shared territory) and it should calm down, and leave them there for a few hours. I had to do this when Poppy and Nino had a lock on fight and it wouldn't stop. It was redirected aggression due to the smell of another rabbit on the lawn.
Click to expand...

It was so horrible to see. I've not seen Biscuit like that since before they were bonded and he could get to her through a pen panel :cry:

They've been bonded since mid october 2010 (so ~3-3.5 months now?).

100% certain about the no other rabbit smells. I've not been anywhere near any other rabbits for about a week or so now.

The health issue would only be Ginger. She's still not quite right, her sneezing has decreased dramatically, but she hadnt had any sneezing fits up until last night, when she had a fair one and had to lie down for a good 20 minutes or so. But Biscuit just sat with her and groomed her for the whole time :?

I'll do my best to keep an eye on them and if i have to, i'll lock them in the crate for a while.

They are currently now playing a game of running up and down the stairs (but not chasing as such, if you know what i mean).
 
They sound ok for now, just monitor them. If it happens again put them back in the dog crate/pen.

It could be health related or it could be space, it's hard to know, but it's not normal. Did you have to separate them yourself? or did they move apart by themselves? This might indicate the severity of the situation and whether or not it was just a display of dominance/got out of hand, or something went wrong. When it happened with my two we had to break them up it was awful :cry:

When you say you've been near rabbits - do you mean handling or just walking past them? Any chance if you'd handled them the clothes/shoes you were wearing are around and could smell of them? Just want to rule that out completely. :)
 
Oh Gray I'm so sorry to read about B&G's "tiff". Let's hope it was just that & a one off :wave:
 
prettylupin said:
They sound ok for now, just monitor them. If it happens again put them back in the dog crate/pen.

It could be health related or it could be space, it's hard to know, but it's not normal. Did you have to separate them yourself? or did they move apart by themselves? This might indicate the severity of the situation and whether or not it was just a display of dominance/got out of hand, or something went wrong. When it happened with my two we had to break them up it was awful :cry:

When you say you've been near rabbits - do you mean handling or just walking past them? Any chance if you'd handled them the clothes/shoes you were wearing are around and could smell of them? Just want to rule that out completely. :)
Click to expand...

Had to seperate myself. Biscuit was trying to roll on to his side by the looks of it, which i know is a god awful sign. There was no way Biscuit was going to let go without me getting him off, i had to raise him from the front and then lift his bum to move him off. He had a moutful of Gingey fluff when i put him down.

Other bunnies, i was Just walking past, they were behind a glass panel in the local pet store i got my hay from (totally different story). No chance my clothes could be around, they were put straight in the washing machine.

Now i've calmed down, im actually quite upset :cry:

If it makes any difference, Ginger is HEAVILY moulting right now, and Biscuit a little.
 
I completely agree with all PL said.

It might be that Ginger is now feeling better, as opposed to worse, so is challenging Biccy.

Its normally easier to identify wounds when they scab, so have a check tomorrow and the next day too.
 
Sky-O said:
I completely agree with all PL said.

It might be that Ginger is now feeling better, as opposed to worse, so is challenging Biccy.

Its normally easier to identify wounds when they scab, so have a check tomorrow and the next day too.
Click to expand...

Yep definitely agree with this, especially if they bonded when she was very poorly and unable to exert her dominance at all during the original bonding.
Bonds also change over several months, we certainly noticed ours switch back and forth over the first few months, Nino originally established dominance and mounted Poppy during bonding, she was too terrified to move, she never challenged him and that was it, they were bonded, but as the months went by she got stronger psychologically and he was never allowed on top of her again! :lol: But neither does she get away with getting on top of him, but she tries it all the time :roll:, he lets her mount his head sometimes but nothing else and if she pushes it he puts her in her place with a look or a nip and that's all it needs, but it took a year or so for them to get to this point. I always feel that like humans, rabbit bonds don't happen overnight, but grow and change over years until they reach a happy coexistance.
They may just be reestablishing things and the increased space may have just tipped the balance on that one. I would perhaps limit the time they have upstairs for a week or two until you are happy all is ok again. I have everything crossed it was a one-off. These fights can happen and all can settle again. Mine settled the instant we put them back in their hutch that day and it never happened again. We kept them in the house until foster bun was adopted and the rain had washed all the scent away from the lawn. So i'm sure they will be ok, don't worry, there's always a way to fix these things, even if the worst happens. :):wave:
 
I suspected Ginger wasn't 100% right during bonding :( She'd only been here 2 weeks, had done a big 250mile journey from Starlights to mine. Been put in an odd room next to another bunny, with odd noises and smells. Then i bonded her with Biccy. Then her pasteurella flared up and has since and is being treated, for the 2nd time, this time more aggressively.

So perhaps your right and the health issue is actually backwards and shes actually feeling better than she ever had before here.

I'll see how they are for the next couple of hours, but if im not sure, i'll pop them in the crate for the rest of the day. I know that'll upset a certain bun, but we can cope with that and the following fallout afterwards for a few days.

Just been downstairs and they are currently totally flopped out on the fleece by the wall together.

I'll check any wounds later and tomorrow, thanks you.

It was things like this i expected during their bonding and never saw any of it!

Ginger's personality has definately flared in the last, even 30 days i'd say, so perhaps she is becoming phychologically stronger in herself as shes feeling physically better.

I think i'm starting to understand a little more.

THanks all for your posts, i felt very alone until people started responding, but its nice to know people have experienced similar and can offer understanding and re-assurance.
 
Best of luck that it just was a one off for your buns Graham. :)

I have just posted a thread about my buns behaviour. :cry: and it is very worrying and upsetting when things like this happen, thank goodness for RU eh? ;)
 
It might be a combination of Ginger feeling more perky and spring fever! Marvin has been going crazy with hornyness at the moment! Pulling hair out of Maisie and humping her like crazy...the poor girl!
 
I agree with the health aspect too.

Willow is a major fuss pot when Bluebell is poorly and as soon as he has a good day he's very quick to tell her to shove off.

Keep any eye on it but I'm sure it'll settle down.

Besides you know how to bond now so you can always go back to basics if needed.
 
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