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Mucky Bum - chronic caecal dysbiosis - Twinkle U/D 22/2/11 - Dental.

Day 5

No bunches or splats.. just about five special poops half together half separate on the shelf this morning... she is still very clean :D Hard to see in the playhouse cos of the amount of hay I put in there last night to keep them warm, but sure there were no bunches of special poops!

Getting cross with me that she is not getting her veggies though :(

Got a new bale of hay yesterday.. she does love munching the hay.. I have no worries about her not eating much there! Getting through so much now winter is here as I like to fill the playhouse up!
 
No bunches or splats.. just about five special poops half together half separate on the shelf this morning... she is still very clean :D Hard to see in the playhouse cos of the amount of hay I put in there last night to keep them warm, but sure there were no bunches of special poops!

Getting cross with me that she is not getting her veggies though :(

Got a new bale of hay yesterday.. she does love munching the hay.. I have no worries about her not eating much there! Getting through so much now winter is here as I like to fill the playhouse up!

Woo! :D I was waiting for the update before logging off as have to shoot - this sounds very promising. Don't worry, she'll get over the no veg thing, they get used to it, you're doing the right thing not giving in. :)
 
Maybe once her tums settled you can slowly introduce veg and see if there is anything that triggers it.

I stupidly gave Mini a tiny, tiny bit of carrot treat day before yesterday and yesterday we had a splat. So with Mini it's definitely carrot which sets her off but green veg she's ok with.
 
Maybe once her tums settled you can slowly introduce veg and see if there is anything that triggers it.

I stupidly gave Mini a tiny, tiny bit of carrot treat day before yesterday and yesterday we had a splat. So with Mini it's definitely carrot which sets her off but green veg she's ok with.

Its hard as it seems everything sets her off.. but hopefully once she is better on hay I can find some things that she can eat!
 
Its hard as it seems everything sets her off.. but hopefully once she is better on hay I can find some things that she can eat!

Once it's settled hopefully you can introduce stuff slowly and see. I remember someone saying that it can take 48 hours before the signs show so it can be difficult to tell sometimes.
 
Once it's settled hopefully you can introduce stuff slowly and see. I remember someone saying that it can take 48 hours before the signs show so it can be difficult to tell sometimes.


Think I will add very very slowly... one minute leaf at a time :lol:
 
Caecal passing generally anything from 24-72 hours. The rule of thumb I think is that the slower bun's motility (and usually this matches caecal flora balance as in poor motility = more dysbiotic) the longer the caecal passing takes.
For example, Nino has a very robust gut despite his predisposition to bloat, his caecal passing is around 24 hours. Poppy's is more like 48 but it has improved to nearer 24 over the years as we've improved her caecal balance with careful diet management - she is and always be more sensitive to certain foods though than Nino.
 
Think I will add very very slowly... one minute leaf at a time :lol:

Definitely and I would leave atleast 2-3 days between trying something else (adding in a 2nd thing). However, I really would give her a lot longer on just hay before even thinking about it. We waited until no sticky stains on blankets or discarded caecs for atleast 2 weeks before starting the veg again. :)
 
Definitely and I would leave atleast 2-3 days between trying something else (adding in a 2nd thing). However, I really would give her a lot longer on just hay before even thinking about it. We waited until no sticky stains on blankets or discarded caecs for atleast 2 weeks before starting the veg again. :)

Yes, dont worry.. I am not rushing into giving her anything else just yet... I am aiming to get to Day 10 before I see how things go!
 
I'm delighted to hear of the good progress Fluffiebunny.:D
Please carry on with Pretty Lupin's excellent advice.
I am one of those with a bun with a very rare condition (my Thumper)- only 3 of us on the whole forum.

The principals Pretty Lupin is showing you, kept my bunny going for 4 1/2 years with only 1 episode of stasis, because I learned the early signs of gut slow down, & could prevent stasis by adjusting his diet, just as Pretty lupin is teaching you to do now.
Thumper's thread is about a rare & fatal illness in it's last stages. We seem to have made a bit of a break through, but the whole key remains diet.

My only advice is, that after you have your bun's tummy working normally again, many many things can slow down a bunny's tummy, & each bunny is a bit different. We can prevent some of them. I'm sure that PL & a few other forum members will be all too happy to share what we've found out by experience.

All the best Judy
 
I'm delighted to hear of the good progress Fluffiebunny.:D
Please carry on with Pretty Lupin's excellent advice.
I am one of those with a bun with a very rare condition (my Thumper)- only 3 of us on the whole forum.

The principals Pretty Lupin is showing you, kept my bunny going for 4 1/2 years with only 1 episode of stasis, because I learned the early signs of gut slow down, & could prevent stasis by adjusting his diet, just as Pretty lupin is teaching you to do now.
Thumper's thread is about a rare & fatal illness in it's last stages. We seem to have made a bit of a break through, but the whole key remains diet.

My only advice is, that after you have your bun's tummy working normally again, many many things can slow down a bunny's tummy, & each bunny is a bit different. We can prevent some of them. I'm sure that PL & a few other forum members will be all too happy to share what we've found out by experience.

All the best Judy

I have been reading Thumper's thread.. very long and interesting! I do know that getting the diet right is key. Twinkle has had mucky bum all her life (over three years) and I have never worked out what was wrong.

This is proving to be what PL suggested, by the fact she has improved dramatically on a few days of hay only. She obviously is a "special needs" bunny by not having a system that can take the normal ranges of foods my other three bunnies can handle with ease. I hope she has not been in pain all this time with her tummy. I can imagine having upset tummy every day is not nice, as in humans.
 
One other thought... she didnt come to me like this. So it is something I have done.

She was on that cheap muesli mix when I got her. Is she going to be one of the few bunnies that actually find this food better than SS or equivalent?
 
Bunnies with tummy pain tend to lie down differently from their norm.& don't want to move. We talk of being hunched up when it's really bad. They breath more quickly than normal too, sometimes in waves of rapid breathing but we've got to make sure that they're not just having a smell of what's going on around them. They wrinkle their noses when they're doing that.
The breath much faster when they're hot too.
But the truth is, that we get to know our buns. Mine is normally very communicative, & loves running round the garden - he didn't want to know!

I don't think that mucky bum issues are painful for bunnies unless they go into stasis which is painful.

I suspect that "stress" is more important as a basic trigger than we realise. It could have easily started before you got her,and any change of environment even for the better, was enough to slow things down a bit & she just got an overgrowth of the wrong bacteria in her caecum. Some types of bacteria produce toxins which slow the gut down even more. We can't ever get rid of them completely because bunnies have to recycle their caecs. They won't eat their caecs if they smell wrong (too many wrong bacteria in them) The whole key is to keep the system well flushed through with a high fiber diet & discourage the wrong sort of bacteria - just as you are doing, by seeing which foods set it off.

Donnamt's Alvin is basically a stress bunny cos he's deaf. (hearing is much more important than sight to a bun) He had a lot of trouble with stasis last year but as soon as his diet was changed over, he's been fine this year!
Snowberry's Snowbun is more like Thumper (megacolon bun), but was stressed by being an indoor bun & partnered with Strawberry. Stasis has much improved since she's been outside & on her own, but able to see another bun.
Thumper is stressed if he's out in the garden on his own, even if I'm watching all the time indoors!! He's scared of any bird bigger than a blackbird overhead, & airoplanes He's even scared of cats when he's safely indoors & will run upstairs. He's just got bunny instincts & only feels safe if away from the sound & smell of predators.
ETA he's also bonded to me & goes into stasis if I stay away all night. Fortunately I don't have to. But there are 3 buns I know of like that!
Often we never get to the bottom of bunny psychology!!!

There are lots of commoner things though.

Add in a few more factors which can slow down a bunny's gut, & they start to hit problems. The big thing is keeping the gut moving naturally.
So don't blame yourself. ;)
 
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