Looking for new pellets

[a reader of books]

Does anyone think this looks okay?

Ingredients
Growth of permanent meadows (timothy, meadow fescue, meadow foxtail, german ryegrass, red fescue, blue grass, cocksfoot, velvet grass, annual panicle grass, white ragweed, vernal grass, couch grass, tussock grass, reed canary grass, white clover, red clover, dandelion leaves, yarrow herb, ribwort, caraway, cow parsley, meadow sweet, common hornwort, bedstraw, thyme-leaved speedwell, bush vetch, comfrey, bedstraw-meadow thistle, daisies, germander speedwell, lady's mantle, greater burnet-saxifrage, narrow-leaved vetch, meadow saxifrage, crested dogtail grass, spring cinquefoil, green field-speedwell, common whitlow-grass, autumn dandelion, red ragweed, cowslip, small clover), timothy, oat peel bran, oat flakes, wheat bran, duckweed protein (7.5%), carrot pomace, linseed extracted, rape seed extracted, sunflower seed extracted, milk thistle seeds (2%), brewer's grain, brewer's yeast, spirulina (1%), lignocellulose (1%), dandelion leaves, dandelion root (0.7%), inulin (0.6%), rosehip peel, stinging nettle leaves, ribwort leaves (0.5%), camomile blossoms.

Nutritional additives
Vit. A 12.000 IE ∙ Vit. D3 840 IE ∙ Vit. E / all rac-alpha-tocopherylacetate 72 mg ∙ Vitamin C as sodium calcium ascorbyl phosphate 600 mg ∙ copper as copper (II)-sulphate, pentahydrate 7.2 mg ∙ iodine as calcium iodate, waterfree 1.08 mg ∙ iron as iron (II)-sulphate, monohydrat 60 mg ∙ zinc as zinc oxide 72 mg ∙ manganese as manganese (II)-oxide 48 mg ∙ selenite as sodium selenite 0.22 mg

Analytical constituents
Crude protein 14% · crude oils and crude fats 3.8% · crude fibre 18% · crude ash 7% · calcium 0.65% · phosphorous 0.4% · sodium 0.21%

It's a pellet called goVet ENERGY DENTAL by Bunny Nature (a German brand). The pellets are nice and small for Casper, and it says it's good for bunnies who struggle to keep their weight on, so it'd be good for Sophie, too. The only thing is that the vitamin D level seems a bit low compared to other brands, and Sophie doesn't get any natural sunlight.

 

[keletkezes]

Ooh, I didn't know you could get uneaten ceacotrophs from forage... Is it the amount of forage or specific plants? 5 pellets each probably can't cause much trouble!

they sound like old people don't they, with their sensitive tummies & failing senses of smell & taste.

KK - Boobly says she doesn't wanna come your house anymore - not with 5 pellets a day :lol:

I never had forage causing uneaten cecos - as far as I can tell, apart from on too many dandelions

None of you have Matt to feed them :lol: I've had to warn our friend who's asked if we can look after his piggies later this month that they'll go home fat and demanding bramble! XD As soon as it's leafy, it's in the run, and sometimes in mid Spring there's a big rain shower so more gets in his way, or the council cut loads down, or some other stupid reason. Plus a 'handful' of forage when you're 6'4" is quite a lot and he thinks THAT'S stingy :lol:

 

[joey&boo]

KK -Ok, she says she'll reconsider as long as Uncle Matts there too

Reader - they've got the duck pond weed out again I notice. Very similar ingredients to the haybox nuggets ! Would it be an option to add a vit d supplement if you're worried ? or is there a bunny suitable food rich in vit d?

I'm beginning to think Sophie & Casper are doing a good job of making sure you buy all of the nuggets. Another thing I thought of, in response to their fading senses of taste & smell is perhaps you could lightly dust their nuggets with something strong smelling & tasty - like dried herbs & fenugreek ?

 

[a reader of books]

None of you have Matt to feed them :lol: I've had to warn our friend who's asked if we can look after his piggies later this month that they'll go home fat and demanding bramble! XD As soon as it's leafy, it's in the run, and sometimes in mid Spring there's a big rain shower so more gets in his way, or the council cut loads down, or some other stupid reason. Plus a 'handful' of forage when you're 6'4" is quite a lot and he thinks THAT'S stingy :lol:

Sounds like Matt keeps them well-fed, lucky bunnies. :lol:

KK -Ok, she says she'll reconsider as long as Uncle Matts there too

Reader - they've got the duck pond weed out again I notice. Very similar ingredients to the haybox nuggets ! Would it be an option to add a vit d supplement if you're worried ? or is there a bunny suitable food rich in vit d?

I'm beginning to think Sophie & Casper are doing a good job of making sure you buy all of the nuggets. Another thing I thought of, in response to their fading senses of taste & smell is perhaps you could lightly dust their nuggets with something strong smelling & tasty - like dried herbs & fenugreek ?

Ah, I hadn't noticed the duckweed! I looked it up, and it's apparently very rich in protein, so I guess that's why they put it in there? It's also edible for humans and chickens and cows and they want to grow it on Mars and it could help fight climate change, so it's quite a neat little plant! As a protein source for bunnies, I guess it makes more sense than soy and peas and stuff? Even though it's a plant they likely wouldn't eat in the wild...

Hm, a vitamin D supplement... The trouble is, I don't actually know how much vitamin D they need, so I'd be worried about overdoing it and making them sick. But SS has 2000 IU per kg and this one has 840 IU, so a little extra probably wouldn't be dangerous, I don't know, but I also don't know if they actually need more than 840 IU per kg. I don't know about bunny foods rich in vitamin D... I've read very conflicting things about the vitamin D content of hay. :? I think I'll need to do some research!

Yeah, their fussiness must be making the shops I buy the pellets from very happy. :lol: I like your idea of dusting their pellets with something strong smelling and tasty! I'm going to try that.

 

[a reader of books]

I put some fenugreek on some rejected pellets and Sophie took a few bites! Casper didn't want anything to do with it, though. :lol: To be fair, I don't know if they actually like fenugreek.

 

[joey&boo]

I put some fenugreek on some rejected pellets and Sophie took a few bites! Casper didn't want anything to do with it, though. :lol: To be fair, I don't know if they actually like fenugreek.

oh dear, worth a try but I'm sorry it didn't work. You need my old rabbit specialist - she was fantastic at rabbit nutrition, reassuring too.

I think I'd give those pellets you listed above a try

 

[Omi]

You've possibly seen this chart before http://www.therabbithouse.com/diet/rabbit-food-comparison.asp It gives a useful comparison between different pellets. It gives the Vit D requirement as 1000 IU/kg. I don't think I'd worry about a pellet only having 840 IU/kg. You can compare the values of this new pellet against others that you are familiar with.

I am surprised about the Duckweed, but surprised only because I haven't seen it in rabbit food previously. I know about the qualities of Duckweed. We have lots growing in our pond. The chickens go mad for it and so I did some research a while ago. It's something we always feed to our chickens if they are poorly because of its protein content. I can't see it's a problem that it is included.

The pellet seems to be marketed for dental rabbits, so would need to be high in necessary nutrients. The claim that it is good for rabbits who can't keep weight on I would take with a mild pinch of salt. All pellets are good for maintaining weight, so I would want to see some detail about why this pellet is any better than any other for that. However, that is not a criticism of the pellet, I would just think about whether it is just marketing.

I think I would give the food a try. You are looking for a pellet that fulfils all their necessary requirements, whilst importantly being one that they like the taste of.

 

[a reader of books]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the pellets, J&B and Omi. I really appreciate it. I'm not sure why this food would be particularly good at helping bunnies keep their weight on; it doesn't say... I'll give it a try, though, yes. Hopefully it won't end up on the pile of rejections.

 

[a reader of books]

I was just reading this really interesting Finnish study (https://helda.helsinki.fi/bitstream...d=D3EC72125F14AECAEB2C5E431493E774?sequence=1) that looked at where Finnish house bunnies get their vitamin D from, comparing the different diets that they had, and the amount of time they spent outside.

This answered some of my questions:

Although the daily vitamin D requirement for rabbits has not been published, a previous study demonstrated that a daily dose of 10-13 IU/kg prevented rickets in weanling Dutch rabbits (Curry, Basten, Francis, & Smith, 1974). Vitamin D recommendations for rabbits are usually given as maximum amount per kilogram of diet, which should be 800-1000 IU/kg, but not exceed 1000-1300 IU/kg, and be never higher than 2000 IU/kg (Lebas, 2000, Mateos, Rebiller, & de Blas, 2010). The direct effect of hay on serum 25(OH)D levels was not obvious from the present results. The mean concentration of vitamin D precursors in good quality hay in Finland is approximately 1000 IU/kg, but it can vary depending on the age and storage conditions of the hay. Other plants, especially dead leaves, sun-dried plants and those at later stage of maturity are sources of vitamin D for rabbits but the vitamin D content of plant material varies highly. Vitamin D supplements are one possible source of vitamin D for rabbits. However, the estimation of the appropriate dose for supplementation may be challenging when the vitamin D content of diet is unknown. Hypervitaminosis D is a life-threatening condition so supplements should be recommended cautiously and only for those rabbits with diet low in natural sources of vitamin D precursors.

The bunnies who ate lots of hay, but no pellets had about the same levels as the ones who ate not much hay and not many pellets, which I think means that eating a lot of hay gives bunnies about the same amount of vitamin D as eating a low number of pellets? There's a table with the results on the second to last page of the study; it's very interesting.

It would be nice if there was an established vitamin D requirement for bunnies so we could see which group(s) of house bunnies get(s) enough from their diet (because the study concluded that time spent outdoors didn't have much effect).

 

[joey&boo]

I was just reading this really interesting Finnish study (https://helda.helsinki.fi/bitstream...d=D3EC72125F14AECAEB2C5E431493E774?sequence=1) that looked at where Finnish house bunnies get their vitamin D from, comparing the different diets that they had, and the amount of time they spent outside.

This answered some of my questions:



The bunnies who ate lots of hay, but no pellets had about the same levels as the ones who ate not much hay and not many pellets, which I think means that eating a lot of hay gives bunnies about the same amount of vitamin D as eating a low number of pellets? There's a table with the results on the second to last page of the study; it's very interesting.

It would be nice if there was an established vitamin D requirement for bunnies so we could see which group(s) of house bunnies get(s) enough from their diet (because the study concluded that time spent outdoors didn't have much effect).

that is interesting, thanks for sharing. As you'll be buying them quality forage & hay maybe you don't need to worry so much. I know FHB feeds her bunnies (which are indoors) forage & odd tiny bits of fruit but no nuggets. I find that reassuring as if anyone is aware of how important calcium & vit d are to bunnies she is. That article would put me off ever giving vit d supplements without bloods & vet advice

 

[a reader of books]

that is interesting, thanks for sharing. As you'll be buying them quality forage & hay maybe you don't need to worry so much. I know FHB feeds her bunnies (which are indoors) forage & odd tiny bits of fruit but no nuggets. I find that reassuring as if anyone is aware of how important calcium & vit d are to bunnies she is. That article would put me off ever giving vit d supplements without bloods & vet advice

That is reassuring about FHB's bunnies. And I do get Sophie and Casper nice quality hay and forage, that's true, so maybe I am worrying too much... It does sound like it's really dangerous giving them supplements, yes. Another study I'm reading says that bunnies are more likely to get too much dietary vitamin D than a deficiency, so it sounds like as long as they have a good diet they'll be fine.

 

[tulsi]

My lot have allan and page pellets but I notice that there is not a proper list of ingredients. My try the wagg twitch once these have gone. Very similar price.

 

[a reader of books]

My lot have allan and page pellets but I notice that there is not a proper list of ingredients. My try the wagg twitch once these have gone. Very similar price.

Ah, when there's not a proper list of ingredients, I'm like, 'What are they hiding?' but maybe I'm too suspicious. :lol: I hope they'll like the Wagg Twitch one if you try that one.

 

[joey&boo]

My lot have allan and page pellets but I notice that there is not a proper list of ingredients. My try the wagg twitch once these have gone. Very similar price.

is this the full list?
Composition: Cereal straw (treated), wheat feed, grass meal, oat fibre, expelled linseed, organic alfalfa, calcium carbonate, molasses, natural vitamins, sodium chloride, actigen, mint.

 

[a reader of books]

The new pellets have been delivered (very fast!), and the result is...

...drum roll...

Sophie, fussy bunny #1: likes it!
Casper, fussy bunny #2: likes it, too!

Now if they keep liking it, I can end my quest to find them the right bunny food.

 

[joey&boo]

brilliant update. I hope they continue to like them this time

 

[a reader of books]

brilliant update. I hope they continue to like them this time

Thank you!

 

[tulsi]

is this the full list?
Composition: Cereal straw (treated), wheat feed, grass meal, oat fibre, expelled linseed, organic alfalfa, calcium carbonate, molasses, natural vitamins, sodium chloride, actigen, mint.

Ah not seen this list. Wonder what good cereal straw does them?

 

[Zoobec]

I’m glad they like them :thumb:

 

[a reader of books]

I’m glad they like them :thumb:

Thank you!