is it a myth that spaying rabbits prevents uterine cancer?

[weeble]

exotics! oooooh i didnt know that

So far; i can not see a vet who has advised a rabbit to not be neutered because he is not qualified to do so him/herself.

X

I can think of at least one that fits that category

 

[blue_vix]

nessar -

wanting to think things through for myself and gathering info is not a 'doubt'.

you say i seem to be very against neutering - this is a falsehood.

i will clarify -

please read my first post

thankyou for your input.

x

I think your initial post is confusing and its not really clear what you are getting at Diamond heart. Perhaps you might like to edit and rephrase it?

 

[CrazyGal330]

exotics! oooooh i didnt know that

So far; i can not see a vet who has advised a rabbit to not be neutered because he is not qualified to do so him/herself.

X

I know for a fact that the head vetinarian at the surgery I go to WILL NOT see rabbits, or any other small furries, Let alone perform surgery on them. He only saw me once when i had to have an emergency PTS, and he only agreed because he was the only vet available. He is more than happy to openly admit he does not know about rabbits.
Simply put, to become a vet you do not have to study small animals. You have to study dogs and cats primarily. If you chose to take extra courses and persue interest in "exotics" then vets can but do not have to. Hence why in the eyes of rabbit owners many vets are "incompenant".

 

[Diamond heart]

Then I think you need to amend your thread title to the question you want answered:lol:

i think it becomes perfectly clear after reading my first post what the thread was meant to be about.

i would hope people would at least read/listen to the thread before posting?

cheers

 

[little-laura]

exotics! oooooh i didnt know that

So far; i can not see a vet who has advised a rabbit to not be neutered because he is not qualified to do so him/herself.

X

Im confused... me and amy said we had vets that said just that said they havent done it enough or before and because their lack of knowledge advised not to neuter both because they havent got much experience of it and because they believe it is not necessary. But due to their overal lack of knowledge of rabbits you cannot really take what they are saying about neutering as gospel as they are probably saying that because of their lack of knowldge

 

[Lea-Anne]

I don't think it's a myth at all. I have lost a doe to uterine cancer because I didn't ' get round' to spaying her. She died at age 3. It won't happen again

 

[Pebblesetc]

i think it becomes perfectly clear after reading my first post what the thread was meant to be about.

i would hope people would at least read/listen to the thread before posting?

cheers

It's not completely clear because your wording is confusing in places and your points are a bit jumbled so it's hard to get the full picture of what you're trying to say. Perhaps you could edit it to make it clearer. Not everyone has lots of time to read every response to a thread

 

[Diamond heart]

I think your initial post is confusing and its not really clear what you are getting at Diamond heart. Perhaps you might like to edit and rephrase it?

i have mentioned several times in various ways blue_vix

:
one rabbit

one vet says they dont think it in the best interests of rabbit to put them through an unecessary neutering.

one vet says all rabbits must be neutered.

one vet says just the males should be neutered

one packed out animal sanctuary says neutering is good for their health

one rabbit friend wondering.

 

[weeble]

From personal exprience I would say this is down to lack of ability/ knowledge[/B]

one vet says all rabbits must be neutered. agree with this if healthy

one vet says just the males should be neutered From a not breeding point of view yes

one packed out animal sanctuary says neutering is good for their health Agree and the fact they are packed out and still say this reinforces the point

one rabbit friend wondering Not sure what you mean by this[/QUOTE

 

[Sky-O]

i have mentioned several times in various ways blue_vix

:
one rabbit

one vet says they dont think it in the best interests of rabbit to put them through an unecessary neutering. That depends on what 'necessary' is because 'necessary' does not always just mean for uterine cancer issues.

one vet says all rabbits must be neutered. That vet would be ignorant because each rabbit is different and not all rabbits are healthy enough to be spayed/neutered

one vet says just the males should be neutered Again, ignorance due to some not being well enough, but equally lacking when it comes to assessing WHY a female should be neutered and that doesn't always come down to medical conditions.

one packed out animal sanctuary says neutering is good for their health Good for the health of those who are healthy enough, but bad for the health of those who are not

one rabbit friend wondering.

Sweeping statements and anyone who makes them are limited because each rabbit is different and should be taken as such. Yes, some things might be the case for the majority, but not for all by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Diamond heart]

Im confused... me and amy said we had vets that said just that said they havent done it enough or before and because their lack of knowledge advised not to neuter both because they havent got much experience of it and because they believe it is not necessary. But due to their overal lack of knowledge of rabbits you cannot really take what they are saying about neutering as gospel as they are probably saying that because of their lack of knowldge

ah yes i c

there is a big difference in a vet saying go to another vet for neutering - i am not qualified enough

and those vets that are not neutering because they feel its for the highest good of that individual rabbit (not because of a medical condition preventing the neutering)

 

[Amy104]

What are you wondering? Whether spaying is worth it? Which vet to believe? Is that what you mean?

If so The RWAF, The British Association of Small Animal Vets, Lots of rescue centres and some of the best rabbit specialists such as FHB and Richard Saunders all support neutering/spaying both males and females. Thats alot of support but I've not seen anything concrete to say the opposite. Apart from the risk from anaesthesia which is alot safer these days.

 

[Jaysmonkey]

ah yes i c

there is a big difference in a vet saying go to another vet for neutering - i am not qualified enough

and those vets that are not neutering because they feel its for the highest good of that individual rabbit (not because of a medical condition preventing the neutering)

Vets who opt not to spay usually do so on the grounds that they don't want to risk GA with a small mammal as success rate is less than that of a cat or dog, which normal vets who aren't exotics trained are familiar with. The reason rabbit neuters are more than cats and dogs in general is also due to this fact.

 

[little-laura]

i have mentioned several times in various ways blue_vix

:
one rabbit

1. 
   [1]one vet says they dont think it in the best interests of rabbit to put them through an unecessary neutering.
   [2]one vet says all rabbits must be neutered.
   [3]one vet says just the males should be neutered
   [4]one packed out animal sanctuary says neutering is good for their health

one rabbit friend wondering.

1: Does this vet have in depth knowledge about rabbits? Do they know how to treat the most common but deadly problems with rabbits if no then they are hardly qualified to state that.
2: Yes, there are so many benefits for the RABBIT to do this that it should be done unless health issues dont allow for it. No utiris no chance of utiris cancer its a no brainer
3: Only if you dont want babies, on a health and for the rabbit basis both are just important but health risks are worse for females if not neutered
4: I dont know why you worded it this way "packed out" sanctuary are you trying to say that because their packed out it affects their decision because I can assure you whether "packed out" or not sanctuaries and rescues believe in neutering because its the best thing for the rabbit

 

[Jaysmonkey]

Guys Number 3 is silly though. If you had a male and a female, surely not neutering the girl, but neutering the boy and then bonding wouldn't be the best idea..as it can have disastrous consequences. Also you'd need 6 weeks + after neutering male.

I know in some circumstances it can work. Take for example my brothers rabbit(s), Harry and Penny. Harry was neutered, Penny wasn't, they got on perfectly. Sadly Penny isn't here anymore though, Penny had an emergency spay after problems at the age of 5, it was however too late and she lost her fight to cancer whilst in the care of FHB.

 

[little-laura]

ah yes i c

there is a big difference in a vet saying go to another vet for neutering - i am not qualified enough

and those vets that are not neutering because they feel its for the highest good of that individual rabbit (not because of a medical condition preventing the neutering)

this is what im trying to say >_<

no vet that was rabbit savvy would say not to neuter in the best interests of the rabbit, if they think that its through lack of knowledge

think about it theres a lot of rabbit owners on here some of them strapped for cash they would not waste money on neutering if it wasnt in the best interests of their rabbit not to mention putting their bun through it... Some users have the elite speceilists in rabbits for their vets and they agree and support neutering and believe its in the best interests of the rabbit.

if you were being treated for cancer whos advice would you take on board more a cancer specilist or your gp? its basically the same vets are trained in a vairiety of animals but specialise in certain areas, many vets have targets to be up on dogs and cats as much as possible for small animals like rabbits they arent as educated on.

This is why we have specilists

 

[blue_vix]

It occurs to me to explain this further by saying how I read and understood the first post.

this is certainly an interesting one - i don't think, anymore, i could ever dare again to make a blanket statement one way or the other - this post is more of a practical philosophical angle.

to get to the heart of the matter an individual would have to dig deep and do alot of research - in a time starved world not many of us can afford to do.

i object, (actually i think object is too strong a word ha ha ) however of

1) mixing issues and agendas up

2) using statements that may not be true in order to shame, co-erce or force people into something which actually may not be necessary for that individual rabbit -

1) the issues and agenda's are mixed up because they are inter-related and it's not really poosible to consider an issue practically without looking at it as a whole.

2) I agree it is generally a fact that there is no way of knowing where a preventative measure is a necessary one for an individual rabbit, this goes for worming and vaccination too. But unfortunately as with the nature of preventative medicine you cannot apply it with hindsight and therefore the decision can only be made on the balance of probabilities using generalisable data, not known factors for an individual rabbit. By your reasoning no one should ever be vaccinated or encouraged to live healthy lifestyles etc, or take health and saftey precautions because you have know way of knowing if that person will ever become affected by what you are trying to prevent in the future. If humankind worked on that assumption there would be a lot more deaths from accident or disease. If you had an unsafe bridge would you say its unethical to advise people not to cross it because you don't know which one it's going to collapse under? Thing of all those people who would be inconvenienced just to save one or two lives....

However, having said that I do think that some people do state the case in a way to give dramatic effect, such as the person who told me when I couldn't afford to get my rabbits vaccinated before I moved to my mums

If you don't have your rabbits vaccinated it is almost a sure bet they will get myxo. There is no other way round the problem. You are too close to the wild rabbits.

. I entirely disagree with using those sorts of semantics. Which I think maybe what you are actually having a problem with here. (this thread http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=5397771)

if for the sake of untangling these issues we could pretend that breeding wasnt an issue at all for the moment-

so the only reason to think about neutering a female rabbit is for health reasons i.e. for the highest good of that rabbit.

i deeply question that 'fact' - the study which found that a high percentage of female rabbits by the age of 6 was a peculiar one - and there is a fair amount of it under myths and misconceptions.

The fact is there is evidence that female rabbits are prone to uterine cancer. This research is now quite old and there is potential and scope for much more in depth studies, however, there are no studies disproving these findings, only personal believes, observations and opinion.

Spaying does prevent uterine cancer so I assume what you are saying is:- is it ethical to put a rabbit through the process of neutering as a preventative measure for uterine cancer, do the benefits out weigh the risks?

Well the short answer to that is yes, in most causes the benefits far outweigh the risks.

- i do have a penchant for truth :-/

and i am inclined to think that the statement if you dont neuter your rabbit she will most likely get uterine cancer a nonsense.

You have said you are inclined to think the statistics/ results of scientific studies which others have linked to are nonsense, which by default means you are more inclined to believe unsubstantiated hearsay.

i think the decision to neuter should be given some serious thought and not be taken lightly and of course assessed by each individual on a case by case scenario - i was startled to hear a vet say neutering is a mutilation under a different name. 10 yrs on and i understand this now.

I think any decent vet would always look at individual circumstances. However the evidence shows that neutering is the best option- and the vet should look for reasons not to neuter as opposed to what I think you are saying which is the vets should look for extra reasons to support the decision to neuter rather than not. If you are looking at it from the philosophical point of view that neutering is mutilation of the rabbit, by the same hand keeping them in an unnatural environment and feeding them processed food is just as wrong, because it is not what is natural to them. The majority of reasons to neuter rabbits would be void if they only lived in the wild.

individual neutering can b appropriate for medical reasons.

but cancer has many causes - they dont seem to be being discussed.

Other causes of cancer are discussed but as no one really knows what they are it is hard to make a constructive argument. Most of these would be things like providing a good diet and environment which had a stronger arguments for other benefits rather the reduction of rates of cancer. You seem to be suggesting that the overall risk of does getting uterine cancer is not a good enough health reason to neuter and advocating this only be done if there is an individualist need in each rabbit- such as evidence they already have cancer and the neutering being used as a treatment. I think there is a confusion that needs clearing up here-

Not neutering a rabbit does not cause it to get cancer, but neutering a rabbit does prevent some kind of cancers.

What you need to consider is that it is very hard to identify when a rabbit has this illness. Particularly amongst rabbit owners who are not as knowledgeable as those on this forum. Rabbits are very good at hiding pain and it is likely the rabbit will die before these individual medical reasons are ever discovered. This is supported by the RSPCA's findings that rabbits are one of the most neglected and misunderstood pets in the UK. It is therefore overall in the best interests of rabbits to spay as a preventative measure given the risks of GA are so much lower than that of uterine cancer. It is a much clearer easier message to get across to rabbit owners in general.
Also you state you want to look at health reasons exclusively and not take in to consideration the other benefits, but in reality when making such a decision these other factors are important to take in to account.

 

[blue_vix]

i have mentioned several times in various ways blue_vix

:
one rabbit

one vet says they dont think it in the best interests of rabbit to put them through an unecessary neutering.

This is an opinion and should be backed up with reasons for that individual rabbit.

one vet says all rabbits must be neutered.

no rabbit 'must' be neutered so this is inacurate, it should say "it's in the best interests of most rabbits to be neutered"

one vet says just the males should be neutered

This again is an opinion not backed up by facts. The vet should provide reasons why their opinion is more valid than other disagreeing experts.

one packed out animal sanctuary says neutering is good for their health

This is almost true, but it is also a statement with a political agenda. It should perhaps state "neutering is good for the health of the majority of rabbits". You could ask for further clarification on the particular health benefits.

 

[VikkiVet]

The incidence of uterine adenocarcinoma is approximately 4% in non-breeding females before 3 years old, and between 50-80% in females older than 3 years. Incidence for previously bred rabbits is similar but the increase occurs around 5 years rather than 3 years. Peer reviewed research studies have been conducted since the 1940s until 2011 (latest reference I could find) that reinforce this finding, including studies investigating the incidence of cancers found in general practice surgeries at time of neutering, causes of reproductive issues in rabbits, causes of systemic disease in rabbits and randomised monitoring of rabbits that died or were euthanased for other reasons. It is not a myth. Even if a female rabbit is behaviourally an angel and lives with another male or female without any issues, for their own health and welfare they should be spayed. End of.

 

[VikkiVet]

Peer-reviewed references:
Vet Rec. 1998 Jun 20;142(25):704. Uterine adenocarcinoma in pet rabbits. Harcourt-Brown FM.

Vet Rec. 1998 May 16;142(20):550-1. Treatment of a uterine adenocarcinoma in a domestic rabbit by ovariohysterectomy. Sommerville LM.

J Am Vet Med Assoc. 2010 Dec 1;237(11):1257-9 Pathology in practice. Morphologic diagnosis: Uterine adenocarcinoma with metastasis to the lungs, diaphragm, spleen, mesentery, and cecum. Brown YK, Knowles S, Fiorello CV, Camus MS, Howerth EW.

Vet Rec. 2010 Feb 20;166(8):230-3. Uterine disorders in 59 rabbits. Walter B, Poth T, Böhmer E, Braun J, Matis U.

J Comp Pathol. 2010 May;142(4):323-7 Progesterone receptor expression and proliferative activity in uterine tumours of pet rabbits. Vinci A, Bacci B, Benazzi C, Caldin M, Sarli G.

Vet Pathol. 2008 Mar;45(2):217-25. The immunohistochemical evaluation of estrogen receptor-alpha and progesterone receptors of normal, hyperplastic, and neoplastic endometrium in 88 pet rabbits. Asakawa MG, Goldschmidt MH, Une Y, Nomura Y.

Compend Contin Educ Vet. 2007 Jan;29(1):49, 51. Clinical snapshot. Uterine adenocarcinoma. Tonks CA, Atlas AL.

J Vet Med Sci. 2002 Jun;64(6):495-7. Uterine disorders diagnosed by ventrotomy in 47 rabbits. Saito K, Nakanishi M, Hasegawa A.