Is good breeding the answer?

[Ben's mum]

Why not? You're still encouraging the pet trade. You're buying pet food and supplies, you're paying a vet, you're showing by example - someone might see you with pets and decide to get a bunny of their own because of that.

 

[kayjay]

I think the only way you can tell if an animal has been bred in good conditions is to go and have a look. Not long ago a friend contacted a breeder for a guineapig and was told that they would deliver only. I find that extremely suspicious. I went to look round a rabbit breeder who is very open and honest and the rabbits were kept as well as many bunnies on here. Unforunately these are few and far between, my dad used to breed and to hear him talk is horrible - you pick them up with their ears, keeping them on wire bases so there's not so much cleaning out, they don't need veg, def don't need a vet (you kill them if they get poorly) and sell any surplus for meat.

 

[Azraelm]

Why not? You're still encouraging the pet trade. You're buying pet food and supplies, you're paying a vet, you're showing by example - someone might see you with pets and decide to get a bunny of their own because of that.

I'm not even going to answer you Karly as you seem intent on causing an arguement, as you seem to enjoy doing.

 

[Ben's mum]

I'm not even going to answer you Karly as you seem intent on causing an arguement, as you seem to enjoy doing.

Erm because I join in on debates? You're not supposed to all agree in debates :lol:

 

[abbymarysmokey]

I think the only way you can tell if an animal has been bred in good conditions is to go and have a look. Not long ago a friend contacted a breeder for a guineapig and was told that they would deliver only. I find that extremely suspicious. I went to look round a rabbit breeder who is very open and honest and the rabbits were kept as well as many bunnies on here. Unforunately these are few and far between, my dad used to breed and to hear him talk is horrible - you pick them up with their ears, keeping them on wire bases so there's not so much cleaning out, they don't need veg, def don't need a vet (you kill them if they get poorly) and sell any surplus for meat.

Even if you go and have a look and are satisfied with the conditions, how do you know their methods for disposing of unwanted stock?

 

[Ben's mum]

Even if you go and have a look and are satisfied with the conditions, how do you know their methods for disposing of unwanted stock?

You talk to them, ask questions, etc. Any genuine breeder should be happy to answer your questions and let you visit.
Lots of people seem to automatically trust rescues but you can get dodgy rescues too. Hoarders who want an excuse to get more animals and rehome them when they want something new, genuine animal lovers who've bitten off more than they can chew, even sick individuals who take animals off Freeads etc to make money from "donations" :? :evil:

 

[SarahP]

Even if you go and have a look and are satisfied with the conditions, how do you know their methods for disposing of unwanted stock?

By talking to them. You soon get to know how they work by just normal conversations.

 

[Denny]

I don't think anyone needs to start breeding in a campaign to show people how it's done As you say there are good breeders out there already if you look for them.

What's needed isn't more bunnies but people being guided to going to rescue or a good breeder instead of a bad breeder or petshop.
Tam

100% agree with Tamsin

I also feel that alot of the blame should lie with the BRC with regards the bad breeders as it is so easy to obtain BRC statis and it is these breeders that tarnish the good name of the good breeders which they too must get fed up with. A good breeder would rarely sell to a petshop and has been pointed out, they give good advice upon purchase and take the bun back if problems or cirumstances arise. Good breeders also limit the amount of litters they have per year as apposed to bad breeders who just spiral out of control.

I remember asking questions about breeding back when RU started and was amazed at how much genetic issues there were so as not to prouduce health problems and deformaties:shock: The breeding of rabbits is very technical, something a bad breeder just wouldn't know or even bother to find out

The only thing that stumps me is, how do you find the good breeders:? with good and bad being BRC registered it is very hard to sift the good ones out:roll:

 

[Ben's mum]

I don't think anyone needs to start breeding in a campaign to show people how it's done As you say there are good breeders out there already if you look for them.

What's needed isn't more bunnies but people being guided to going to rescue or a good breeder instead of a bad breeder or petshop.

Not sure I quite agree, in the rat fancy there are quite a few new breeders starting all the time and I think it's generally a positive thing. You get the odd breeder who hasn't a clue what they're doing but the majority of the new breeders have done their research, have their ethics set in place, decided what they're going to aim for, researched good lines to start from etc. so rather than the struggle with breeding good health from bad lines like the 'old' breeders, they're having friendly healthy rats immediately. The increase in good breeders means an increase in awareness of breeders - and the importance to assess their ethics as much as they'll assess whether you're the right owner or not. The more available a good breeder is, the less people will have to resort to petshops and dodgy breeders, and as said the good breeders are usually more than happy to recommend rescues if they don't feel the owner's situation is right for kittens.
I think the rabbit fancy's attitude is a big problem - as nice as it is to see everyone against petshops and bad breeders, there seems to be very little seperation between ANY breeders. I don't feel that raising and carefully selling healthy, friendly rabbits is such an evil thing, and if these good breeders take back their rabbits and don't contribute to rescues then the rescues will eventually get less and less in because less people are going to petshops and bad breeders then dumping the rabbits.
I think the original thread title about good breeders being the way forward is more the point to be made - pedigree means nothing, a pedigree is a piece of paper. I could breed two random petshop rabbits and write their names on a piece of paper, advertise them as coming with pedigree and suddenly to some people they're all the more special :?

 

[kayjay]

I think the original thread title about good breeders being the way forward is more the point to be made - pedigree means nothing, a pedigree is a piece of paper. I could breed two random petshop rabbits and write their names on a piece of paper, advertise them as coming with pedigree and suddenly to some people they're all the more special :?

Sorry, I changed it as I chickened out of going so far as to say maybe we should encourage good breeders as I know opinion on RU is against breeders generally.

I've changed it back cos it does say what I'm thinking more accurately than pedigree

 

[Ben's mum]

To be honest there are lots of people who'd prefer to go to a breeder over a rescue for any animal, just because that's what they've learnt is best. So why not encourage them to go to a good breeder than a BYB or petshop?

 

[Lea-Anne]

I have owned FTGH rabbits, rescue rabbits and pedigrees. I have worked in a petshop (although it did not sell animals).

My "free" rabbits (who I no longer own) were sadly unwanted at 6months old. The usual story - bought from a pet shop for a child during the summer and then come colder months the 4 year old child no longer wanted to go out to care for them!!!??? Big surprise. Crazily, when I rang these people they questioned and quizzed me in great length on MY ability to care for rabbits!!!! Apprently they had turned people away because they weren't good enough. I was told they were ND's. When I got there I found myself faced with an English spot and a black heinz mix, both large rabbits. Despite not having the space for such huge rabbits I took them anyway, when I saw they screamed whenever you went near them. It took a year of coaxing before I could pick them up without screaching.

My rescue rabbits, Inca, Jess, and Fraggle found themselves "given up" because their disabled owner realised he could not get his wheelchair up to the hutch to stroke them. They came to me fearful, never having been outside, on grass or experienced noise. Jess was such a problem he had been rehomed and brought back twice.

Ironically, Radar, my pedigree is the most sound of the lot, temperament wise but I don't know if thats down to his breed or just coincidence. I found his breeder by word of mouth when working in the petshop. I mentioned I wanted a giant to a french lop breeder who told me of Radar's but refused to give out her number till he had spoke to her. He then came back to me with the number and when I rang, I admit, just wanting to say "yes I'll have one" straight away she asked me questions on did I know what I was getting myself in for, where did I intend to keep him, did I realise the costs etc - I felt like I was on trial and pleased when she agreed to "meet me " but said there was still no gaurentee she would sell him to me until she was sure he was going to a good home. Sure enough when I arrived she made me chat to her inside the house, before I even saw Radar. Then she showed me his parents, uncle, and the rest of the litter (she was keeping.) She explained she'd been showing for ten years and did it for the love of the breed. Hers were pets too and came into the house. She only bred 2-3 litters a year saying "quality not quantity." They had pens within a double garage that had been specially made for that purpose not cars haha! She said there was no money to be made in it, if anything its an expensive hobby! I only paid £30 to cover the cost of his feed in his short 9weeks of life! She sat him down on a table and went through a health check and gave me a sack of pellets. Since then I have I have rang her to ask advice on several problems I've had with him and she has always been happy to help.
I have never been analysed this much as a potential pet owner by a petshop!!! I think the answer is to educate people. Yes, its important to go to the rescues but like someone said not all rescues are good. Someone I know owns 45 rabbits. Shes got about ten of those from "rescues"- some wellknown ones- who did not even visit her house..... They are kept in tiny hutches and not let out because often its "too hot". Now wheres the justice in that...

Unfortunately its not black and white, you can't say scrap petshops and everything will be fine. There are some disgusting breeders and some disgusting so called rescues too who are adding to the numbers. I think the answer is to educate people so they don't get animals from these places. The girl I spoke about before has bought rabbits from some a breeder who kept them in tiny boxes on wire , again to "rescue " them but in my eyes she just lined his pockets and encouraged him to breed more...
Someone said animals are exploited and we shouldn't own animals whatsoever. I disagree. I think it would be a real shame and rather dull world without animals to enrich our lives. To learn is to educate, and in the end we only preserve what we know, and we only know what we love.

 

[abbymarysmokey]

One thing that does really concern me is the number of children breeding rabbits. I don't think anybody should be breeding animals until they have their own income and can pay for vet costs. I also don't think the BRC should have classes for juniors.

IMO a child hasn't yet learned how to look after themselves, never mind taking responsibility for bringing animals into the world.

 

[Ben's mum]

You mentioned another good point - good breeders rarely if ever make a profit, they're lucky to break even on their costs

 

[Lea-Anne]

I don't understand why there are rubbish breeders....

Why bother? If you love rabbits or a particular breed fair enough, we can understand that but if you don't.... and those who keep them in boxes on wire and give no hay etc obviously don't love their animals then what is the attraction making them continue breeding???? With dogs etc you can make a few hundred quid but you can't make money from rabbits can you?? :? I don't get it!? :evil:

 

[Ben's mum]

I suppose those with setups like that don't have many expenses. With rabbits having 5+ kittens in a litter they could have, for example, 5 does with litters at a time, get the minimum of £10 a bun from a petshop (one I worked for paid £10 for 'regular' buns, £15 for lionheads or if it was a regular breeder), that's £250 for sticking a male bun in with a bunch of females for 5 minutes then leaving the mums to it to raise them :?

 

[Lea-Anne]

Blimey I didn't think a petshop would pay £15 for one! :shock: Guess it is the money insentive then I always thought all breeders were like that until meeting Radar's. It would do no harm for the laws on breeding animals to be stricter....

 

[Ben's mum]

Not all will I suppose but all they need is a few established 'customers' to buy a regular amount of buns off them. The shop I worked for sold loads of bunnies, and sold them for £40 (£45 for lionheads - they also bred their own french x german lop crosses which sold for £90 :shock: ) - and they sold so they kept buying them from people for £10-15 :?

 

[Lea-Anne]

£90 for a cross?????????? :shock:

I only paid £50 for my french papillon but she is a rarity where I live and a stunning one at that ! :lol:

The lady I got Ruby off just bred giants for pets. Now heres a questions do we think shes a bad as a petshop or a show breeder? She was nice enough but she was just doing it for "fun" :?

OMG you have enlightened me there. Thats very sad to hear

 

[abbymarysmokey]

If pedigree rabbit bred for the show ring are healthier...then Jane must have some of the healthiest rabbits on RU