Interesting conversation.

[kayj]

i feel really guilty reading this lily was from a well known pet shop but was healthy when we had her. the only thing they did wrong was tell us she was a boy.

i didn't even discover that there were a lot of rescues for rabbits until i got into rabbits more and we decided to find Lily a mate.

obviously if i'd have been more clued up at the time i would have rescued, but sadly i wasn't.

dosen't change the fact that Lily is happy and has a nice home with us, just makes me feel really bad as i am new to all this and didnt realize there was such a stigma attached to it.

i feel really bad

Don't feel guilty about where you got your bun from at least she got a brill loving forever home and most of us on here will have had a pet shop bun at some stage in our lives

 

[donnamt]

Not really, Im not saying that some owners don't then go on to find the info and care for their animals properly. Im saying its much more convenient for them to buy from a shop that doesn't care about what the animal will be living in, fed, housed with etc than having to wait a day/week for a home check and made to comply to a good standard of accommodation/care. Too many people want it now and have not got the patience to wait a week or two. Also, many people don't realise that most petshops and breeders only care about profit and not the animals long term welfare. Which is understanabe, I used to think that pet shops were caring and lovely until I hit about 13/14 and worked in a few!
Its not just animals that people are impatient about, its everything in life. People are too busy and too selfish to wait for things whether its decent food, furniture, new car, money, pets, whatever. Thats why so many people are in debt! They want it all now and don't consider the implications of not doing things at a slower, more educated pace!

gulity... my chippes were an impulse buy from a petshop... looked em up and was out to get one all on the same evening... best shop bought thing ive ever got... one week later i was at another store in the chain to get a pal for the first one bud they was actually babies tho cus i didnt realise how big balls get in males :shock:

i dont have the patience to wait for anything so i will always be in debt too :lol::lol::lol:

 

[Lspacehopper]

Does the pet shop care?. If they are alive and kicking when they leave the shop and they have the money in their till.....all's well .

The pet shop themselves did not buy from the auction so the "buck" will stop at the supplier if anybody points the finger....shock horror we did not know that was happening! we do not condone that sort of thing.....I'm sure you can fill in the rest .Lets get real here...this is the pet trade.

The sad thing is people believe adverts if they see them enough.

alan.

Alan, I find it quite strange that you feel it's fine to post this, yet don't feel strongly enough about it to actually pass the information on to the H/O concerned. :?

If it *happened* to be the company I worked for, I'd hope that you could be bothered to pass the information on to someone who would want to do something about it.

 

[areia]

I agree with your thoughts here. Spot on.

I do have to say though that I found out about rescues by accident. I had no idea that there was in issue with too many unwanted or dumped rabbits until I stumbled across rescues on an internet search for a duck sanctuary. I might well have gone to a pet shop if I hadn't read up first. I just don't think that there is enough 'air time' given to rabbit welfare. So many folks just have no idea because the problem just doesn't get publicised in the way that dogs and cats do.

Maybe one day we can change that.

yup i didnt really know to much about rescues i fell upon ARC because i couldnt find a breeder, i knew i never wanted one from a pet shop, but wanted a bun for big's and i have learnt so much since then and have yet to learn so much more, i think people kind off switch off at appeals etc we hear on the news about ill treated animals agressive animals and the public are aware but we seem to switch off and just go awwwww and ohhhhh and seem to forget very easy at how they come like it because we have our own lives to deal with. its not until you have the need for a pet or a nagging child people then just assume pet shop will have them as its more convieniant than doing the research before hand, not saying everyone is like it, also some people are put off by resuces as we assume aminals are dumped for more than just unwanted, " there must be something wrong with them" i.e. health probs aggressive etc and people assume pet shop ones come from a trusted place, i remember my mum once when i was younger sayin she would never get a rescue dog while i was young as she was worried about the lack of history and how they come to be in a home, we rescued a loverly irish wolf hound once turned out he hated cats (we had 7 at the time) and hated big guys (he used to be beaten )and would jump up at them, he loved my brother whos 6'2 and greet him gleefully we were able to control him with our cats but not others, then one day he jumped up at my neighbour who then complained saying he bit his neck, he didnt he washed it, but the time came and we let him go to a lovely place with feilds no other pets or children was very hard to do and we took ages in finding the right place, but we never got another dog again just more cats mom brough home two from the vets that were being put to sleep because the kid was allergic and she had had a litter of one

 

[Tamsin]

Does the pet shop care?. If they are alive and kicking when they leave the shop and they have the money in their till.....all's well .

Yes, I imagine they do. They are paying a supplier for a specific product and that's not what is delivered, instead they are getting an inferior product sold and the same price I imagine they wouldn't be too impressed. That's how businesses work. If they were happy with the inferior product they'd go straight to that supplier instead.

After all substandard goods do effect the money in the till. Animals that die require refunds and sick animals in store are a hassle if nothing else. They need segregating, euthanasing or can cause complaints.

Yep, they might not care about the rabbits welfare but they certainly care about the effect on business.

 

[Raven Rexs]

That's a very good point, because if ever you try to find out from any of the 'pet shop chain' about their animals it's all treated totally hush hush and you cannot get any information at all

It would appear that a bag of carrots is worth more that a live rabbit:roll:

Unless you have worked there for a couple of years

 

[KarenM]

i feel really guilty reading this lily was from a well known pet shop but was healthy when we had her. the only thing they did wrong was tell us she was a boy.

i didn't even discover that there were a lot of rescues for rabbits until i got into rabbits more and we decided to find Lily a mate.

obviously if i'd have been more clued up at the time i would have rescued, but sadly i wasn't.

dosen't change the fact that Lily is happy and has a nice home with us, just makes me feel really bad as i am new to all this and didnt realize there was such a stigma attached to it.

i feel really bad

Lots of people have been in the same situation. Alfie was from a breeder - I thought that was better than buying from a petshop because I knew where he had been brought up etc, but it wasn't until I found this place that I realised how many rescue bunnies needed homes. Had I known that, I would have rescued in the first place.

I wouldn't change Alfie for the world, and the best I could do was to make sure that any future bunnies came from rescues, which I did with Bubbles.

As for the op, it's very worrying but also not completely surprising. That was one of the reasons I didn't want to buy from a petshop, purely because you know absolutely nothing about the bunny's background and where it came from. I agree with lspacehopper though, that the pet shop should at least be informed surely, rather than just assume that they wouldn't care. ??

 

[rspcarabbits]

Yes, I imagine they do. They are paying a supplier for a specific product and that's not what is delivered, instead they are getting an inferior product sold and the same price I imagine they wouldn't be too impressed. That's how businesses work. If they were happy with the inferior product they'd go straight to that supplier instead.

After all substandard goods do effect the money in the till. Animals that die require refunds and sick animals in store are a hassle if nothing else. They need segregating, euthanasing or can cause complaints.

Yep, they might not care about the rabbits welfare but they certainly care about the effect on business.

In the normal world with normal goods what you say is quite correct.....however this is not your normal scenario.

The two products on the face of it look the same and quite possibly will perform the same...remember the conditions that a rabbit is bred and sold at an auction could be much the same as for a dedicated breeder.

Whats more the average guarantee at your local pet shop falls way way way short of what you get with your new radio, hair straighteners or anything.In fact you hear of rabbits being bought from pet shops on here with "hay allergies", slightly watery eyes, behaviour problems or whatever in a way nobody would accept if it were their television.....Sorry the colour is not quite right on the screen or its not going to work if you have a radio in the same room!.

In addittion after a very short period of time if your said "new " bunny dies then the pet shop could put the blame onto the new owner with the phrase's "Well all the rest here have been fine"" or "are you sure you have been looking after the little fellow just like we said....you must have been doing something wrong."

We hear on here time and time again that people bought their first bunny from a pet shop (I'll admit I did)....are these people really going to question a pet shop with all the arsenal of excuses and explanations they can come up with...or are they just going to think thay got a good result if the pet shop replaces their animal with a new one free of charge.....after all it did just cost the pet shop a pittance and into the bargain they managed to sell the new owner a hutch, rabbit starter pack , hay , bottle , books, rabbit yogurt drops , carrot shaped chewing blocks, wheato treats , lick stone.................

Slick advertising in any aspect of life is such a powerful thing that nobody ever questions what they are getting.

alan.

 

[rspcarabbits]

Strange

Alan, I find it quite strange that you feel it's fine to post this, yet don't feel strongly enough about it to actually pass the information on to the H/O concerned. :?

If it *happened* to be the company I worked for, I'd hope that you could be bothered to pass the information on to someone who would want to do something about it.

To start this tread I related an "interesting converstaion" that took place between a metal fabricator and a buyer at an auction.This converstion was told to me by the metal fabricator whom I might add I know and trust as he would have no reason to make the story up or know what I would do with it.

However the story to me is "third hand" or hear say as I did not hear the actual conversation or was I there to witness it.I made this very clear in the opening post.

In these circumstances it is wholly right not to identify the said pet shop or buyer( even if I knew his name) in any way or take the action you suggest.

From your comments about "feeling strongly enough" and "bothered" I take it that you report every single report you read on here about your employers buisiness to your employer even though they are mostly third party or hear say....that must keep you very busy and at danger of being manipulated by anybody on here with an axe to grind and the need of a vehicle to do it.

I would advise caution on your part ...... I certainly do not jump in "guns blazing" at hear say.

The title of this tread is "interesting conversation" which is what it was.

alan.

 

[ChloeLawless]

Don't feel guilty about where you got your bun from at least she got a brill loving forever home and most of us on here will have had a pet shop bun at some stage in our lives

ah thank you

 

[fionaw]

Has anyone tried asking in a pet shop where the bunnies and other animals have come from? Whenever I have asked (in a certain well known pet superstore), they tell you that they come from someone in Kent (I live in Wales!) and I have also been told that the guinea pigs come from dealers who keep 250 pigs in one unit, and the dealer has 4 units = 1000 pigs!! So of course they have had no handling and are fed and watered automatically, small wonder then that a lot turn out to be less than perfect pets in terms of temperament and health.

There was also a programme on TV last week showing Melton Mowbray Market in Leicestershire, all sorts of animals up for auction there, rabbits of all different breeds going for £1 to £2 each, they said that most are then sold on to pet shops.... if you go on the market's website http://www.meltonmowbraymarket.co.uk/poultry-pets-sundries.html#pets it implies that you can just turn up with animals to be auctioned off, this is presumably where a lot of breeders who couldn't care less take their unwanted stock.

 

[Vegan_Bunny]

Thats really disgusting. How can you AUCTION a pet!? Some people don't actually give a about anthing but themselves... We should auction them off to the highest bidder for lion food!

 

[VikkiVet]

it's all true!

I have previously worked for a well known garden centre that had a pet department. when i started we had lots of private breeders on the books that we inspected and then bought animals from, so most were well handled and in great condition, especially hamsters and gerbils etc that were mostly just pets in people's homes before they came to us. But then management decided that it was easier/better/more cost effective etc to buy from a "supplier" and we knowingly did just that - he didnt breed anything himself, just supplied them to us. In terms of rabbits and guinea pigs, this usually involved a large box of a mix of animals, i.e. not litter mates, and the staff would pick the ones they liked the best (not well trained, never looked at their condition etc, drove me nuts!). This resulted in lots of pregnant guinea pigs from day 1 or soon after as they hadnt been sexed properly. there was also an increase in fighting, skin conditions, etc etc. In the end i left, partly because i hated this system and the fact that we were "fooling" the public into thinking they were nicely bred and healthy.

So i agree its wrong, on all fronts, but its quite likely that the shop knows what it is doing and is ok with it. as others said its just a comodity to be sold, they may do their best to care for them, but its all about profit and turn over. thats why, even if the animals are in good condition and decent cages, i dont buy from shops that sell pets, because it only encourages this kind of thing.

 

[fionaw]

If this is the same well known garden centre that used to sell pets and now doesn't, then I have heard similar stories- someone I know was one of their approved breeders and used to get £10 a rabbit that they then sold for £25 to £30. They then started to use one supplier/dealer who would get animals from all sorts of places, and although they wouldn't deal directly with the person I know, she would still supply them as she would meet this man in the car park, hand over her rabbits, get paid by him and then he would take them into the garden centre! I'm so glad that they have stopped selling animals, let's hope that other shops stop selling live animals too!

 

[Lspacehopper]

Has anyone tried asking in a pet shop where the bunnies and other animals have come from? Whenever I have asked (in a certain well known pet superstore), they tell you that they come from someone in Kent (I live in Wales!) and I have also been told that the guinea pigs come from dealers who keep 250 pigs in one unit, and the dealer has 4 units = 1000 pigs!! So of course they have had no handling and are fed and watered automatically, small wonder then that a lot turn out to be less than perfect pets in terms of temperament and health.

There was also a programme on TV last week showing Melton Mowbray Market in Leicestershire, all sorts of animals up for auction there, rabbits of all different breeds going for £1 to £2 each, they said that most are then sold on to pet shops.... if you go on the market's website http://www.meltonmowbraymarket.co.uk/poultry-pets-sundries.html#pets it implies that you can just turn up with animals to be auctioned off, this is presumably where a lot of breeders who couldn't care less take their unwanted stock.

PAH rabbits do not all come from one breeder in kent and neither do their Guinea Pigs.

Melton Market is a huge problem and you can even buy a Barn owl there if you wanted to. These auctions are all over the country. There is also another one in Coalville, Leicester. We have ended up taking in animals bought irresponsibly by people who had no idea what they were doing.

e.g 3 Dutch rabbits aged approximately 3-4 weeks old that were going to be put straight outside in a hutch. They'd been kept in a box all day and fed on nothing but a bit of carrot.

If you want the full lowdown on what the place is like speak to Jill a.k.a Honeybunny.

 

[rspcarabbits]

PAH rabbits do not all come from one breeder in kent and neither do their Guinea Pigs.

Melton Market is a huge problem and you can even buy a Barn owl there if you wanted to. These auctions are all over the country. There is also another one in Coalville, Leicester. We have ended up taking in animals bought irresponsibly by people who had no idea what they were doing.

e.g 3 Dutch rabbits aged approximately 3-4 weeks old that were going to be put straight outside in a hutch. They'd been kept in a box all day and fed on nothing but a bit of carrot.

If you want the full lowdown on what the place is like speak to Jill a.k.a Honeybunny.

Just curious ....where do all the rabbits that PAH sell come from exactly?

Hearing you say " We have ended up taking in animals bought irresponsibly by people who had no idea of what they were doing".........no comment.

alan.

 

[luvabun]

We have ended up taking in animals bought irresponsibly by people who had no idea what they were doing.

Pot calling kettle black springs to mind.

 

[honeybunny]

Can I just defend Lspacehopper here
I am against pet shops selling livestock and Laura knows this..
however before she was manager of the Leics store many of the bunnies handed in to us came from there originally..since she has been in charge we have had one
A huge improvement..her staff do question people buying animals..I know we tested them out! (sorry Laura) before I was willing to pair up with them
They now have posters of our animals looking for homes displayed and although not a huge response we have homed a guinea pig and four bunnies through this
I know this still is a long way from perfect but I'm sure we are all aware there are branches of the RSPCA people are not happy with either

Don't knock the people trying to work to make improvements..
please feel free to visit any of 5 other petshops local to me who keep the animals in poor conditions, will sell you a two foot hutch, mis sex all the time and keep us really busy

 

[Hunnybunny2007]

I too want to defend a certain big pet store - I recently adopted a rabbit from them - They have funded a huge vet bill to have his teeth clipped, they made nothing out of this and certainly put his health first before any cost. If they had not taken him in, he would most certainly have died because he couldn't eat.
Again thank you Laura and the staff at Nottingham - they were very helpful and caring.

 

[Lucy]

I too want to defend a certain big pet store - I recently adopted a rabbit from them - They have funded a huge vet bill to have his teeth clipped, they made nothing out of this and certainly put his health first before any cost. If they had not taken him in, he would most certainly have died because he couldn't eat.
Again thank you Laura and the staff at Nottingham - they were very helpful and caring.

He wouldn't have died if he had gone to a rescue would he? And rescues are there specifically for that reason, not giving in one hand and taking with the other.