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Older mini lop going off food - probable lymphoma

Moonstone

Moonstone

Warren Scout
My mini lop is 10 years old, due to be 11 in two months. He has been deaf for some time but now is really struggling with his sight too. They are over wintering in a pen indoors and he seems to navigate around it with his sense of smell.

He has been winding down gradually in the last year, moving around less but still running around and jumping sometimes. But after a vet visit for a nail trim two weeks ago he was exhausted, very sleepy with very small dark poos. It seemed to have exhausted him, but he was still fine with eating. Since then, his energy perked up the poo is better but not great, but in the past few days he's been going downhill again. I've been giving him some of the other one's metacam as a trial in case he has arthritis and it did make him move more but not back to how he was before the vet visit. Today, he hasn't had any pellets but will eat fresh food. Not much hay. I was putting metacam on the pellets so he hasn't had that today either.

I've haven't taken him back to the vet yet because it seemed to be going there that made him worse in the first place. I think I'll have to now, though I'd rather it not be the weekend as the off peak vet is much further away so an even more tiring journey.

I guess what I'm not sure about is whether he is just declining in his old age and on-going medical interventation is just going to stress him and not achieve much (I've not reached this stage of life with a bunny before). Or whether I should go hell for leather to keep him with me, syringe metacam and recovery food into him tonight (he hates being forced to take anything my mouth)? Take him to a vet asap?
 
I would take him to the Vet ASAP. It might be that he has some dental problems, ear problems or age related problems with his kidneys. Is he drinking OK ? Has he maintained his normal weight ?

Once you can establish if there is an obvious reason for his loss of appetite and lethargy you can then decide what you feel to be in his best interests to do in order to keep him as comfortable as possible.
 
Thank you, I know you're right, I've been trying to avoid the inevitable. That said, after writing the post, I took him three feugreek crunchies which he ate without persuasion (they are his favourite food). After reading your reply, I found him side by side with Millie, both of them eating hay. They are still there munching away. I want to leave them tonight and take him in the morning.
 
That went about how I expected. He has gut stasis but everything else looks normal: normal temp, normal lungs, no lumps, ears healthy, teeth have some spurs but too small to trouble him yet and no sores or bleeding in his mouth. She said I could take the aggressive route and they could admit him, put him on a drip etc, or I could take him home with meds and syringe feeding. I opted to bring him home, I hope I've done the right thing, I just think hospital would be too much for him to cope with right now given how he reacted to being taken in for a nail trim. But there is another part of me wanting to do everything possible to keep him with me, he is a lovely rabbit, so good natured and affectionate and I can't really imagine living without him atm. But she was talking about it approaching the time to put him to sleep which was both horrible to hear and what I was expecting to hear.
 
Well, the Vet talking of PTS now seems a bit rash. I assume the Vet ruled out a full blockage ? Did he/she do a blood glucose test ? Give a dose of analgesia and prokinetics via injection, as well as some subcutaneous fluids ? Getting the first dose of meds in by injection is more beneficial and extra fluids always help in all cases of gut stasis.

Has he had some poo output today ?

I hope that he will start to show some signs of improvement in response to the ongoing medication.
 
Yes, he is pooing, so I don't think it's a full blockage, poos are the right colour but small (not tiny). There's been no noticable incontinence though he is tending to sleep in the litter tray. I do think vets make assumptions about older bunnies, no blood glucose test or injections (doh! I should have requested that). I could at my normal vets on Monday. He has lost a lot of weight. I gave him the meds and I was going to wait 15 mins for them to kick in before I started the syringe feeding and I went back to find him feeding himself on some parsley that I drenched in water. He's had one syringe full since though and was well enough to kick up a protest about it. I intend to feed him every two hours. What I don't know is what is underlying the stasis, whether it was just the stress of the nail trim, or me being stressed (my sister is dying and I'm mid-divorce), or something else going on with him that we haven't detected. Do you think I should let him be hospitalised?
 
I've just read through this thread. Most importantly, I'm amazed that, based on his current issue, the vet is talking about PTS. In my view the situation is that he is an older bunny and so obviously is nearing the later stage of his life. But if he were my rabbit, based on your information, there is no way I would consider letting him go at this stage.

It sounds like he is making some improvement with the stasis and if I were you I would continue as you are doing. I would offer tasty herbs (wet is good), whilst at the same time giving some supportive feeds via syringe. What meds has he got? Great that you have some to continue at home. It's a pity that the vet did not administer the initial dose of meds via injection, nor give fluids though. Can you weigh him every few days to monitor his weight?

I definitely would not have him hospitalised. I think he will feel more settled and secure at home, which should help him recover faster.

Whilst it would have been better for the vets to have done a blood glucose test, plus give meds via injection, I think if he continues to poo and also seems to be improving even a little, I would consider not taking him to your normal vet on Monday. Better for him to be relaxed at home. But you need to make a decision on that nearer the time I think.

It's very often the case that the cause of stasis in a rabbit remains unknown. It could have been the nail trim, or he could be picking up on your stress, or both.

And lastly I empathise with having a sister who is dying and being mid-divorce. I've been through both, although not at the same time. Sending lots of hugs.

I said lastly, but can't go without saying how cute Archie is ❤️
 
Moonstone said:
Yes, he is pooing, so I don't think it's a full blockage, poos are the right colour but small (not tiny). There's been no noticable incontinence though he is tending to sleep in the litter tray. I do think vets make assumptions about older bunnies, no blood glucose test or injections (doh! I should have requested that). I could at my normal vets on Monday. He has lost a lot of weight. I gave him the meds and I was going to wait 15 mins for them to kick in before I started the syringe feeding and I went back to find him feeding himself on some parsley that I drenched in water. He's had one syringe full since though and was well enough to kick up a protest about it. I intend to feed him every two hours. What I don't know is what is underlying the stasis, whether it was just the stress of the nail trim, or me being stressed (my sister is dying and I'm mid-divorce), or something else going on with him that we haven't detected. Do you think I should let him be hospitalised?
Click to expand...

I am wondering if his kidney function might be impaired. Not unusual elderly Rabbits. This can cause significant weight loss, excessive drinking and urination/urinary incontinence. Lethargy and in the later stages gut slowdown/gut stasis. I suspect that the only benefit he’d get from being hospitalised is to be on fluids. It’s a shame the Vet didn’t give him some subcutaneously during the consultation. If he was hospitalised he’d probably be put on an IV drip.

I would continue to encourage him to eat. Don’t worry if it’s only fresh foods.Try to get oral fluids into him too. This could be done by making the syringe feeds very watery. The oral meds will take longer than 15 minutes to kick in. But hopefully they will do so within the next hour. I would continue with the prescribed treatment for now. But should his poo output stop of should he show signs of deteriorating I would contact the Vet again.

I am very sorry to read of the very distressing time you are having concerning your sister and your husband.
 
Thank you both. The second syringe feed went well but the third was out of the question from his perspective. I am using a very liquid feed but I think I only got about 2ml into him that time, though he subsquently ate everything else that landed down his chin and on his face. He struggled a lot, I kept having pauses because his heart was so fast and he was panting. It didn't seem like a good use of his energy. He ate a little grass between feeds 2 and 3 and is currently nibbling on dried leaves. I weighed him and he's exactly 1.8kg, he only went under 2kg once before as an adult, I will weigh him again same time tomorrow.

I think I will separate them overnight. That way I can leave pellets with him (without Millie eating them) and have a clearer idea of how much he is eating and drinking and how much he is pooing. I can divide the pen into two and give them a space to hide each where they can still lie together with just bars between them.

I was given metacam 0.7ml every 24 hours (would it be better to split that into two daily doses?) and a gut stimulant. I can't remember what it was called and it's by the pen so I'll get it when he isn't nibbling.

I don't know about his kidneys. Is there a way of testing that? There was no pee on him when he was examined. He has had an accident about once a week since EC but I haven't noticed one this week (they are on cream rugs so it's easy to tell).

I'm very glad you're both saying it's too soon to think about pts. When she said it to me and was talking about bringing him back in a few days for it, I was actually thinking that there was no way I was going to be doing that. He's still eating, I always think that's a sign of wanting to live. I have mixed feelings about euthanasia anyway.

Thank you for the advice and for the kind words about the other things in my life, I'm so sorry you lost your sister too, Omi.
 
He would need a blood test to ascertain renal function. If he has had EC then renal damage is a real possibility, EC affects the kidneys

If he is eating a little for himself and pooping then I would hold off giving more syringe feeds. The stress it’s causing him will be counterproductive and if he’s ’panting’ there is a risk of him aspirating a feed.

I would leave him with a choice of foods, fresh as well as hay and pellets and monitor his input and output overnight. Give him a bowl of water too, Rabbits tend to drink more from a bowl than from a sipper bottle.

Emeprid is Metoclopromide, a drug that increases the rate of gastric emptying.
 
Overnight he ate no pellets, a small amount of watercress, half a bowl of dried leaves and I couldn't tell how much hay. The water levels didn't look much different. This was his overnight output (nearly 12 hours worth):

DSCF8717 small.jpg

It's more than I feared he'd do but doesn't look healthy. He pee'd in the litter tray and also left a puddle of it on a mat, (not spotting more one pee session). He felt small and heavy when I gave him meds and didn't eat while Millie did and I was cleaning it up and sorting everything out. I put them back into a big pen together and they were pleased to be reunited though I coudn't tell if Millie was being loving or just removing traces of metacam from his face!

DSCF8726 smaller.jpg

He was basically hiding from me but came out after I left and he realised I wasn't going to syringe feed him. He ate from the bowl of dried leaves for some minutes. He's been sleeping since and I'm worried that he's just not eating/drinking enough so I'm in two minds about feeding him again. I'll weigh him again at 5pm so will have a better idea then.

What you're saying about his kidneys is sounding likely. He did have them tested when he was in hospital with EC and they were fine but they could have worsened since.
 
Poor lad ☹️ Is he due back at the Vet tomorrow ? I hope so.

As he is eating a little for himself and has some poo output I think I would hold off the syringe feeds overnight. If he’s bloating up then force feeding him could make things worse.
 
I just weighed him and he's 1.766kg, he was 1.800 yesterday after three syringe feeds but hasn't been syringe fed inbetween those two measurements.

Please tell me what to ask the vet tomorrow. I ask for a glucose test and kidney tests and for him to have some hydration on the spot? Can they take blood when he's dehydrated? I was told he's too weak for a general anesthetic so I don't see what they can do, and he clearly isn't eating enough to survive on his own. I'm so heartbroken, I'm being really calm when I'm with him to keep him calm, but everywhere else I'm a mess.

He hasn't eaten since 11am, barely moved in fact. I just went in there with bowls of pellets and he started excitedly running around like he used to, and then running towards me. He actually picked one up and then it was like he remembered he was ill and that now he's scared of me and he dashed off back to bed with it in his mouth. No crunching noises, I think he dropped it.

Should I try to at least syringe some water into him?

Thank you for all your help, InspectorMorse
 
He isn't today, Omi. I tried him mid-afternoon with grass and dandilions and then recently with lemon thyme. He loves lemon thyme normally but just wasn't interested.
 
Moonstone said:
I just weighed him and he's 1.766kg, he was 1.800 yesterday after three syringe feeds but hasn't been syringe fed inbetween those two measurements.

Please tell me what to ask the vet tomorrow. I ask for a glucose test and kidney tests and for him to have some hydration on the spot? Can they take blood when he's dehydrated? I was told he's too weak for a general anesthetic so I don't see what they can do, and he clearly isn't eating enough to survive on his own. I'm so heartbroken, I'm being really calm when I'm with him to keep him calm, but everywhere else I'm a mess.

He hasn't eaten since 11am, barely moved in fact. I just went in there with bowls of pellets and he started excitedly running around like he used to, and then running towards me. He actually picked one up and then it was like he remembered he was ill and that now he's scared of me and he dashed off back to bed with it in his mouth. No crunching noises, I think he dropped it.

Should I try to at least syringe some water into him?

Thank you for all your help, InspectorMorse
Click to expand...


If he is bloating up then personally I would not syringe him any more until he has been examined by a Vet. Obviously it’s impossible to say for certain, but as I said before, he does look markedly bloated in the photo. But that could partly be the camera angle. A hands on examination is needed.

I would leave foods he was favouring close by him. And let him rest. Does he feel cold to touch ? If so then cover him with a warm towel or blanket if he won’t get stressed by it. Hypothermia is a risk when a Rabbit is very poorly.
 
Been hunting for my electrically heated mat all day, finally found it, carried it in there and he's eating the lemon thyme so I backed out again.
 
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