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Breeders vs. Bad owners
- Thread starter SOAD
- Start date
My bunny is x breed. She just happens to be big, she was the only single female bunny the rspca had at the time i adopted. I didnt not go looking for big rabbit and nor am i. I do like bigger bunnies but i would never get one just because of size, i never have and never would.
No offence meant like i said. I was refering to breeders who sell rabbits who dont match the breed standard regardless of their personalities. Personality is not what is judged at shows.
No offence meant like i said. I was refering to breeders who sell rabbits who dont match the breed standard regardless of their personalities. Personality is not what is judged at shows.
its in human nature to have preference y do u pick the clother u wear and the food u eat i know u cant compare a rabbit to these things dont u have a soft spot for a certain breed?
i know we dont vaccinate for netuter but if u have about 8 young rabbits all in need of vaccinating a neutering can u think of the cost that would be and not every one is bothered about these things what if someone just wants one male rabbit then there isnt any need for it to be neutered so y pay about £35 extra, its hard enough to find money to look after the rabbits. we r not on about making money here.
also how can rescues guarantee they have found a good home u cant say they have all found good homes as i know some rabbit get returned again
becky
i know we dont vaccinate for netuter but if u have about 8 young rabbits all in need of vaccinating a neutering can u think of the cost that would be and not every one is bothered about these things what if someone just wants one male rabbit then there isnt any need for it to be neutered so y pay about £35 extra, its hard enough to find money to look after the rabbits. we r not on about making money here.
also how can rescues guarantee they have found a good home u cant say they have all found good homes as i know some rabbit get returned again
becky
I would say that having a soft spot for a breed or clothes or colour is a very different thing to acting upon it and getting rid of those who dont make the grade.
I do know how much neuturing and vaccinating costs but I think it is a question of responsibility, breeders may well not feel it is theirs despite the fact it was them who decided thses babies should be born, herein lies the root of the problem. If it is hard to find the money to keep the animals you have why would you intentionally make more, the costs of vet fees should be considered before making more animals.
I think it is a GOOD thing that rabbits who dont get on in their new adopted homes are brought back to the rescue centre, in fact this is usually a contractual agreement when you go to adopt from a rescue centre.
Theses are just my opinions, i dont mean to offend.
I do know how much neuturing and vaccinating costs but I think it is a question of responsibility, breeders may well not feel it is theirs despite the fact it was them who decided thses babies should be born, herein lies the root of the problem. If it is hard to find the money to keep the animals you have why would you intentionally make more, the costs of vet fees should be considered before making more animals.
I think it is a GOOD thing that rabbits who dont get on in their new adopted homes are brought back to the rescue centre, in fact this is usually a contractual agreement when you go to adopt from a rescue centre.
Theses are just my opinions, i dont mean to offend.
That's as true for rescues as it is for breeders. Each has the choice to do checks on the new owner and to be as sure as possible a home is good. I've come across breeders that do and those that don't as well as rescues that do and those that don't.
Pet Owners should take some responsibility for their actions, so many rabbits end up unwanted because the owner didn't bother to think or research before getting them. Some of the wait of that should be carried by whoever that got tha rabbit from but equally they should take responsibility too.
For example a petshop sells someone a New Zealand. Then they give it up because it's got to big. The petshop should have told her how big it would get but equally he/she could have checked the requirements for that breed thereself.
Supply & demand certainly comes into the equation. If any one passing on a rabbit only did so to people who they felt was really prepared for the job then whether breeder or petshop they would be reducing the number of animals entering homes and there would be less to end up in rescues.
Tam
Ps. Remember to keep it friendly while your debating - thanks
Rabbits need a new "image"! They are too often portrayed as easy pets to look after and suitable for young children.
If people actually realised what complex little beings they can be then maybe demand for them would go down and pet shops wouldn't sell as many - this may have an intial knock on effect of too many buns though!
I don't see why we are picking on responsible breeders - surely it would much more worth our while to work together to edcuate the general bunny buying public?
Well said Tam by the way!
If people actually realised what complex little beings they can be then maybe demand for them would go down and pet shops wouldn't sell as many - this may have an intial knock on effect of too many buns though!
I don't see why we are picking on responsible breeders - surely it would much more worth our while to work together to edcuate the general bunny buying public?
Well said Tam by the way!
SOAD
Wise Old Thumper
agreed :thumb:
I know cleaning out my hutch bunnies isn't much fun in the bad weather, it would be great if we could drive home these kind of messages as I think that it is things like cleaning and feeding bunnies in the cold, which contribute towards negleted or bunnies ending up in shelters.
I know cleaning out my hutch bunnies isn't much fun in the bad weather, it would be great if we could drive home these kind of messages as I think that it is things like cleaning and feeding bunnies in the cold, which contribute towards negleted or bunnies ending up in shelters.
hi
I think all pet shops should be banned from selling animals - If people want a pet they should go to a registered (and regularly inspected) breeder or a rescue.
I think you should have to be registered to breed your animals, and that the genetics should be checked out before you are allowed to breed from an animal - my mum bred several litters from a dog that she knew had bad parentage - she didn't care as she just wanted to make some money for a holiday - one of the pups had to be PTS for aggression, and one had epilepsy - the mum was temperamental and went for me once - genetics is so important.
My girls I've just adopted were bred by someone hoping a pet shop would take them - only they didn't, so the girls and mum ended up in rescue - They are all beautiful and I have to admit I was taken by their looks not their personality (they are very untame) - but the main reason I took them was because I hoped I could give them the care they need as a group.
When there are so many animals unwanted in rescue, with no hope of finding homes, I can't see any justification for breeding more - it's pure selfishness and human nature at its most arrogant - 'animals are there to satisfy our needs/wishes' - NOT!! Showing is fun - I lived with a dog breeder and we showed the dogs - but it's a hobby that uses animals - I don't agree with using animals as I think animals are entitled to more respect than we typically give them.
I was brought up to eat rabbit (grandad a gamekeeper), show dogs and generally do what I liked with animals as humans were the masters - I'm 43 now and have a different perspective on it.
I think all pet shops should be banned from selling animals - If people want a pet they should go to a registered (and regularly inspected) breeder or a rescue.
I think you should have to be registered to breed your animals, and that the genetics should be checked out before you are allowed to breed from an animal - my mum bred several litters from a dog that she knew had bad parentage - she didn't care as she just wanted to make some money for a holiday - one of the pups had to be PTS for aggression, and one had epilepsy - the mum was temperamental and went for me once - genetics is so important.
My girls I've just adopted were bred by someone hoping a pet shop would take them - only they didn't, so the girls and mum ended up in rescue - They are all beautiful and I have to admit I was taken by their looks not their personality (they are very untame) - but the main reason I took them was because I hoped I could give them the care they need as a group.
When there are so many animals unwanted in rescue, with no hope of finding homes, I can't see any justification for breeding more - it's pure selfishness and human nature at its most arrogant - 'animals are there to satisfy our needs/wishes' - NOT!! Showing is fun - I lived with a dog breeder and we showed the dogs - but it's a hobby that uses animals - I don't agree with using animals as I think animals are entitled to more respect than we typically give them.
I was brought up to eat rabbit (grandad a gamekeeper), show dogs and generally do what I liked with animals as humans were the masters - I'm 43 now and have a different perspective on it.
SOAD
Wise Old Thumper
I know, but I think education is the key, if all those bunnies in rescue had stayed at their original home, there wouldn't be a problem, but people keep buying them, th getting bored and then putting them in rescues. I think we are being very blinkered just to blame breeders, it's very much pass the book situtation, if people were taught more about keeping a rabbit and the implications of one they are less likely to end up in rescue.
When prohibtion happened in the USA did preople stop drinking, NO! they got in on the black market instead, my point is banning something doesn't stop something from happening it just forces it underground where there is no controls.
and with that folks, I'm logging off and going to the vets.
When prohibtion happened in the USA did preople stop drinking, NO! they got in on the black market instead, my point is banning something doesn't stop something from happening it just forces it underground where there is no controls.
and with that folks, I'm logging off and going to the vets.Rexy bexy said:
I agree, show breeders are doing the pet rabbit population a favour by reducing the risk of a rabbit inherriting 'unhealthy' genes and ending up with health problems later on, that in turn may be passed onto their offspring if they are also bred.
There is a whole raft of disreputable breeders where the breeder does NOT know the background of the rabbits they are mating. They breed using uncontrolled programmes and often it gets out of hand, as I'm sure many of the rescues on here will be able to tell us stories about. I believe that this particular set of breeders are largely generated by pet shop demand.
I therefore agree with Elve that rabbits should not be sold in petshops at all. They don't sell kittens and puppies, so why do they still sell rabbits?
Re the stock that show breeders sell off, there is an alternative to that and that is culling. I really don't think show breeders, with controlled breeding progammes, are the ones causing the problems here.
Also I don't think 'accidental' matings help matters much... but I'd better not get started on that. b-m
Fluffybunny
Warren Scout
I have just had a litter of 4, purpousefully-bred, Dwarf Lops. Does this make me a bad rabbit owner for "contributing to the rescue centres" and "taking up homes for other rescue rabbits"?
I spend £30 a month on my 8 rabbits (all pure-bred!), and have been a BRC member for 2 years. I have owned rabbits since I was 6 - I am now 15. I get no help from my parents for the rabbits, it is all off my own back. I have had one litter in those 9 years, and most are going to new homes free as they are going to my friends - is this the profit making many of you seem to believe breeders get?
You say rabbits should be neutered and vaccinated before they leave the breeders...well not only do they have to be around 5 months to be neutered, but surely this is the new owners preference and should be left for them to decide. If all the rabbits were neutered, where would we be? Would you be happy there are no more rabbits just as long as they were all neutered?
I have been a member of this forum for a while, and seen many "accidental" litters happen (and this is not a dig at those people), would you prefer if rabbits were born this way from parents whose background was not known, or by an experienced breeder, with a 5 generation pedigree on each side who can tell prospective owners how their rabbit will turn out exactly and not get dumped on rescues for growing "too big".
What would be the point breeding from a mis-marked animal for show? No matter its personality. All rabbits have personalities - it doesnt mean you can keep them all. It will produce more mis-marked babies, only to be sold to more pet homes, as they can't be shown. I have nine hutches here (and admittedly 4 of those are filled with pet rabbits from when I was younger which - despite people saying I should make way for more showable or breeding rabbits by getting rid of them - they are here to stay), ranging from 8 years old to 2 years old. But I wont purpousely keep mismarked babies or un-showable ones from my litters when I could keep the better 'typed' ones. Just as I am selling all my current litter as they are not what I can show or breed.
I'll get off my soap-box now, put on my tin-hat (I may even need a lead one :lol and hope no-one has taken deliberate offence at my post. After all everyone has to put a different spin on things.
I spend £30 a month on my 8 rabbits (all pure-bred!), and have been a BRC member for 2 years. I have owned rabbits since I was 6 - I am now 15. I get no help from my parents for the rabbits, it is all off my own back. I have had one litter in those 9 years, and most are going to new homes free as they are going to my friends - is this the profit making many of you seem to believe breeders get?
You say rabbits should be neutered and vaccinated before they leave the breeders...well not only do they have to be around 5 months to be neutered, but surely this is the new owners preference and should be left for them to decide. If all the rabbits were neutered, where would we be? Would you be happy there are no more rabbits just as long as they were all neutered?
I have been a member of this forum for a while, and seen many "accidental" litters happen (and this is not a dig at those people), would you prefer if rabbits were born this way from parents whose background was not known, or by an experienced breeder, with a 5 generation pedigree on each side who can tell prospective owners how their rabbit will turn out exactly and not get dumped on rescues for growing "too big".
What would be the point breeding from a mis-marked animal for show? No matter its personality. All rabbits have personalities - it doesnt mean you can keep them all. It will produce more mis-marked babies, only to be sold to more pet homes, as they can't be shown. I have nine hutches here (and admittedly 4 of those are filled with pet rabbits from when I was younger which - despite people saying I should make way for more showable or breeding rabbits by getting rid of them - they are here to stay), ranging from 8 years old to 2 years old. But I wont purpousely keep mismarked babies or un-showable ones from my litters when I could keep the better 'typed' ones. Just as I am selling all my current litter as they are not what I can show or breed.
I'll get off my soap-box now, put on my tin-hat (I may even need a lead one :lol
and hope no-one has taken deliberate offence at my post. After all everyone has to put a different spin on things.Going to a breeder for a particular breed of rabbit does deprive a rescued rabbit of a home - all breeds are available from rescues.
Caz wanted rexes and searched rescues till she found them. She has ended up with beautiful rabbits but she did have to work at it.
We've had people come miles to us for Netherlands and Lionheads.
Unfortunately nowerdays people want what they want, when they want and aren't prepared to put themselves out or wait.
We are asked quite often to take so called 'good' breeders excess stock and unsaleable babies. They feel that they are being responsible by not culling. They are not - they are passing a problem on to us.
The trouble with this discussion is that people are going to take offence and think it's a personal attack. None of it is, it's a general thing.
How ever much I plead not to bring anymore rabbits into this world where there aren't enough good homes - people who breed won't be able to see my argument.
However much they tell me that they are doing it for the good of the breed and not adding to the problem - I won't see their argument.
It all makes me so sad.
Caz wanted rexes and searched rescues till she found them. She has ended up with beautiful rabbits but she did have to work at it.
We've had people come miles to us for Netherlands and Lionheads.
Unfortunately nowerdays people want what they want, when they want and aren't prepared to put themselves out or wait.
We are asked quite often to take so called 'good' breeders excess stock and unsaleable babies. They feel that they are being responsible by not culling. They are not - they are passing a problem on to us.
The trouble with this discussion is that people are going to take offence and think it's a personal attack. None of it is, it's a general thing.
How ever much I plead not to bring anymore rabbits into this world where there aren't enough good homes - people who breed won't be able to see my argument.
However much they tell me that they are doing it for the good of the breed and not adding to the problem - I won't see their argument.
It all makes me so sad.
Fluffybunny
Warren Scout
donna-arc said:
I have to disagree. Since when have you seen a Blanc de Termonde, Sallander, Deilenaar, Meissner Lop, Perlfee, Alaska...I could go on...
before this gets out of control and ends up beeing locked i would jusy like to say we all have our own opinions and we cant say who is right and who is wrong but having ago at each other wont help we cant say what people should be doing unless u have been in there shoes and tryed it out for them selfs. it would be nice to see how other people would do things diffently alot of people say what we should do ect but dont actually know themself as they dont really know. hope u can understand this, as i couldnt find the right words lol :lol:
becky
becky
Fluffybunny said:
This is exactly the point I was making - some people care more about having what they want than giving a home to a rabbit in need! Who can tell me this isn't a selfish attitude?
Yes, of course we all have our favourites, and will have a soft spot for certain rabbits. Personally, I am always drawn to albinos - probably because they often get overlooked at rescues. Each time I have space in my home for another rabbit, I go along to a rescue and adopt one there and then. I don't care what breed or colour it is.
Back to the subject of lops, nethies, etc. Even if you try to breed out the health problems, there's no getting away from the fact that these rabbits are basically mutants and totally unnatural (through no fault of their own, of course). Their skull shape is all wrong, and lops are unable to move their ears in the same way a naturally shaped rabbit can.
The only reason rabbits are being bred is for human gain. There is no way that breeding benefits rabbit welfare as a whole. There are too many rabbits and not enough homes to go around!
If culling (ie killing) "less than perfect" rabbits is the alternative to selling to pet shops or direct to homes, then that's hardly a compassionate option!!!
So, these are the choices for breeders: kill mis-marked baby rabbits or sell them to pet shops/direct to owners, thus depriving an existing rescue rabbit of a home. Please can someone explain how breeding is not contributing to the overpopulation problem :roll:
Jenny and her collection of mis-marked, cross-bred rescue rabbits
i thought this debate was about good breeders vs bad owner not let all ago at each other what the debate was about is that we should tar every one with the same brush this goes for every one, if people want to say i dont care about animal welfare then let them i too have had unwanded rabbits and helped find new homes but this was due to pet shops telling them it was only going to be a small rabbit a grew too big
becky
becky
