At the end of my tether with Mackworth and Dolben

[Finedon.Dandy]

Last Spring my sister rescued two intact male bunnies but upon becoming pregnant decided it was too much work and went about trying to find them homes. Having some type of mammal was something I had thought we would look into once our daughter was a bit older (she is 5, son is 2) but these bunnies were an attractive proposition as they came with their own hutch and a spare which sister had got cheap.

We decided to take them on and they arrived Oct/Nov last year. We named them Mackworth and Dolben (old local surnames). I bid and won a run on ebay for £40 and was pleased to be giving them an even better life than they had ever had even with my caring sis who rescued them before me. My sis reconed you couldnt tell them apart but one is slightly smaller, more submissive and has a much neater line of definition between the white and the tan markings. He is also softer and the white is crisper so I do know which is which (important so you know I know who is who for next part of my story)

Dolben developed a sore willy - had no idea how or why. Basically it was swollen and he couldnt retract it. I rung a bunny line and spoke to this really nice lady (cant find that web site again but came accross you guys) She said I must get them castrated and get them done together so they dont get separated. With regard to the sore willy she suggested I bath it in salt water. I found both bunnies enjoyed this so I set about trying to ease the problem and it seemed to work for a while whilst I started to save up the money for the ops.

I then decided not to take any more chances with them and take them both for a check and to see what was the prob with the willy - vet soon saw that poor Dolbens willy had a slit all the way down its length but said I had been doing just the right thing. She gave him some antibiotics just in case and said she would do the op as soon as it had healed.

A week later though we had the good friday massacre; hubby brought one of the rabbits in from the run and he was covered and I mean covered in blood. I bathed him and found that that his balls were cut to shreds. Stopped the bleeding and rang vets who said to bring him in next day. Cut this part of story short; both bunnies were booked in for the chop the following week. Dolben wasnt done though as he still wasnt healed so although it was a pain I had to thank god I had a spare hutch I could bring in the house (other would have been too big) as I had to keep them appart and Mackworth in the warm. Dolben was done the following week and then they went outside in separtate hutches.

I was told to give them two weeks past op till they could go together but as soon as I tried they were at in again. At first I found it funny as Dolben the previous submissive one was the one who was doing the mounting almost as if he was trying to get his own back. Mackworth dont help though as he keeps nudging his balls as if to say come on then.

There they have been ever since and I am sorry but I am getting really fed up with it. One hutch is on top of the other which makes them difficult to clean - would be much easier if they could be back together. Also they cannot go out in the run together - STILL! - cos they keep bloody mounting each other and trying to bite each others balls. PLEASE can someone help me.

 

[Sooz]

Unfortunately two unneutered males will end up fighting eventually 99% of the time and this usually involves trying to castrate each other as you have found.

It can be very difficult to pair up two males even after neutering, and this is even more true when the males in question have already been fighting and thus are immediately wary and defensive about each other.

The reason they are doing this is to try and exert their dominance on one another. When a rabbit wont back down you start to get the fighting which you are experiencing now.

How long did you wait after both ops to try re-bonding them?
Are you doing it on neutral ground?

I can go through the motions with you to try and find a reason but in my personal opinion this is not a pairing I would want to continue with.

I think you would be better off either getting them a neutered female each from a rescue or if 4 rabbits is ot an option, rehoming one of them and getting the remaining rabbit a speyed female from a rescue.

 

[charlie82]

I'm a little unclear... are BOTH your rabbits neutered now?

If not then they probably won't ever go back together. Because they were split up it is necessary to re-bond all over again in a neutral place. Keeping two intact males together rarely works out and they usually have to be neutered as soon they are old enough in order to retain their bond. Rabbits are not like other animals and although sociable they can not simply be put with another rabbit and expect to get along. Obviously they had begun fighting in order for the other bunny to have been injured in that nature.

Can you describe exactly what happens in more depth when you put them together...i.e are they boxing each other, getting into serious fights, lunging??? Or is it just mounting?

 

[Angie65]

Unfortunately two unneutered males will end up fighting eventually 99% of the time and this usually involves trying to castrate each other as you have found.

It can be very difficult to pair up two males even after neutering, and this is even more true when the males in question have already been fighting and thus are immediately wary and defensive about each other.

The reason they are doing this is to try and exert their dominance on one another. When a rabbit wont back down you start to get the fighting which you are experiencing now.

How long did you wait after both ops to try re-bonding them?
Are you doing it on neutral ground?

I can go through the motions with you to try and find a reason but in my personal opinion this is not a pairing I would want to continue with.

I think you would be better off either getting them a neutered female each from a rescue or if 4 rabbits is ot an option, rehoming one of them and getting the remaining rabbit a speyed female from a rescue.

What Sooz said. That saved me a lot of typing

 

[elve]

yes you basically have a recipie for disaster here - it sounds as if they hate each other, and don't have enough space to live together whilst keeping a safe distance, and that won't change - they will fight till they kill each other so you must keep them apart and make another plan.

Incidentally if they were both from a rescue originally, usually a contract of adoption is signed, promising to return the rabbits to the rescue if they can't be kept - was there anything like that with this rescue, as they might be prepared to take one of the rabbits back?

 

[Finedon.Dandy]

The rescue was my sister literally taking them from a neighbour who had just left them.

Yes both have been done now.

They are going around in circles almost as if they are chasing each others tails. The Dolben will try and mount. Should I try and give them time to get to know each other again and have a little spat to get it out of their system and let them readjust their hierachy.

How can I let one go - which child do I upset? Have only just fitted the run onto the patio - hubby will go mad if I ask to buy another anyway.

 

[Sooz]

Because IMO, and I have done alot of pairings up both when I used to run a rescue and now for another rescue,....these two will kill each other if left to 'get it out of their systems' because neither is backing down.

You either keep them apart and try again in the autumn (this is the worst time of year to try bonding as it's prime breeding season), keep them apart permenantly or find someone experienced to bond for you.

 

[norrielian]

If I were you I'd try to find a rescue near you who would be willing to rebond them for you away from their territory. :wave:

 

[abbymarysmokey]

I'm not an experienced bonder, but personally I wouldn't risk rebonding this pair as they have caused serious injury to each other in the past.

 

[elve]

If you aren't giving them neutral territory either (ie they only meet in the run which they both use) they will definitely kill each other as they both defend the territory from invaders - Neutral territory must always be used for introductions, such as your bathroom or a shed they haven't been in before - but with these 2 boys I doubt any amount of neutral territory will work as they remember grudges and will just continue to attack.

I think you will have to spend some serious money if you want to keep them both outside (they could live happily as singleton neighbours) but if you can't afford to kit the place out for that scenario then maybe buy a dog crate and pen (fairly cheap) and have one as a house rabbit? - although be aware boys in particular can be destructive, so you would need to bunny proof cables and furniture, and keep monitoring the situation. Really depends how much you want to keep them both

 

[Finedon.Dandy]

Just spoken to a resue centre and she has offered to rehome one of ours and let us have a female. Discussed it with my daughter and we both tearfully think thats the best thing.

 

[Vanessa.B]

It is a hard decision to make, but I think you have done the right thing for all the bunnies involved.
Good luck in finding a ladybun.
Vanessa xx

 

[elve]

that's probably the best idea - they will still need bonding on neutral territory though - maybe the rescue can help with that? Also depending on how long ago your boys were neutered, and if the female is spayed or not - boys are fertile up to 8wk after neutering!

 

[Finedon.Dandy]

Had a tearful chat with my daughter who is willing to give up Mackworth and get a little girl so that they will both be happy. However upon speaking to my hubbie he doesnt see what the problem is and doesnt want to part with either. So I am back where I started - wouldnt mind but its me doing all the hard work! Now I am wondering if I perhaps get two girls - one for each as I have two large hutches for each pair to share and they can have 1/2 a day per pair in the run. This way both rabbits have a companion and yet are not gonna be together till they kill one another. Thoughts please.

 

[elve]

I got the impression that the hutches were small as one was on top of the other? A pair of rabbits needs a 2x5 double hutch minimum size to live in, plus a run out at least 2 to 4 hours a day.

If you are struggling to find time for 2 rabbits, 4 will make twice the mess, and in addition pairs will fight each other if they can see other rabbits, so you need to keep them boarded off out of sight from each other.

And 4 rabbits get through a lot of hay - think small pony :shock:

the other alternative if your husband wants to keep them both, is to have one as a house rabbit as I said in my previous post - could that work maybe?

 

[ecudc]

I think trying to bond to a female is the best option as once bunnys have had serious fights there is very little chance of getting them back together again, even if it's done a neutral space and some time after their hormones have calmed down.

If you are able to offer a good home to two girlies (neutered rescues of course ) then that would be ideal but you might want to consider giving them two separate runs. This means that they have all day access and wont be disrupted by the smell of other bunnys.

In terms of who does the work. If hubby wants to keep one of the boys, then I think hubby should do the cleaning don't you!

 

[Prettyprincess]

hello

I have two like this, as little boys they loved each other then when they reached grown up all hell broke lose. They have been both neutered but if left together they would kill each other. It is hard work, I have to keep rotating them who is in and who is out. Nightmare!