At my wit's end, need advice please

[Shimmer]

In order to increase his fibre intake, can you get hold of some fresh leaves, such as bramble, raspberry, willow, strawberry - you may be able to find some in woods, fields, allotments, friends gardens etc (away from dogs, etc). They shouldn't upset your rabbits tummy if introduced slowly, and will help to replace the missing fibre from grass / hay. Being fresh, they are also moist and will help to bulk up the poos, and may be easier to eat as they are not in long strands.

You need to keep trying with the grass / hay / other fibre as rabbit's teeth grow very quickly - spurs can form in a week or two if there is nothing to wear them down.

I have had rabbits on metacam long term with no ill effects - ie over a year - for dental issues.

You are doing all the right things - I hope he picks up soon.

 

[dinklepip]

Metacam last 12 hours. Could you maybe give your vet a ring and see about upping his dose and splitting it? Then he can have some on a morning and some on a night, he will be covered 24 hours a day and this might encourage him to eat his hay. :thumb:

good grief I never even thought about giving half dose twice a day although as I mentioned I didn't know until you informed me as to how long each dose lasts. He is on 0.5 dose daily. I might do the twice daily then.

He hasn't had his meds yet but when I did my weekly shop this morning I bought a packet of rocket leaves which I know he likes and a bay leaf and parsley plant. He has had some of those, his bitesize shredded wheat and a tiny bit of broccoli and he managed them really well considering I haven't yet given him his meds. I even caught him nibbling on a bit of hay when he thought I wasn't looking. It's there bedtime at the mo so won't give him anything else as there is lots of bits of different hay for him to nibble at if he is really hungry.

It never rains but it pours I think Bella is now showing signs of dental again. When I say again, I don't know her history as she was dumped at a car boot 5 years ago and muggins here bought her home and very pleased I did too as not only would she have died but her and Cookie are close beyond belief. She had dental about a year ago, (which was my first experience with dental) and recovered immediately) so I suppose I was expecting Cookie to do the same. He is 8 1/2 now and has never had dental until a couple of weeks ago

 

[dinklepip]

In order to increase his fibre intake, can you get hold of some fresh leaves, such as bramble, raspberry, willow, strawberry - you may be able to find some in woods, fields, allotments, friends gardens etc (away from dogs, etc). They shouldn't upset your rabbits tummy if introduced slowly, and will help to replace the missing fibre from grass / hay. Being fresh, they are also moist and will help to bulk up the poos, and may be easier to eat as they are not in long strands.

You need to keep trying with the grass / hay / other fibre as rabbit's teeth grow very quickly - spurs can form in a week or two if there is nothing to wear them down.

I have had rabbits on metacam long term with no ill effects - ie over a year - for dental issues.

You are doing all the right things - I hope he picks up soon.

omg spurs can form in a week or two!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He did munch on some of my blossom tree leaves last night and I do have some strawberry plants in tubs although I have never tried him with the leaves. I have a park next to my house where I normally get my long coarse grass and dandelion leaves. Around the outside all the way around the park is wild. There isn't any bramble or raspberry nearby but I am sure I could find some if I looked properly..just have to get my brain into gear today lol.

Just been having a look around on past postings on here about hay suppliers and I am going to pop down to Danetre Farm down Barby Lane for a bale of hay. I normally use a local independent pet shop as they get fresh hay in a couple of times a week but think my buns have gone off it

 

[dinklepip]

Hi,

Glad to hear that Cookie is well in himself and eating some food - even if its not what you want him to eat! Blossom is still much the same to - picky (and wanting the not so good stuff!!) a bit like Cookie. Today he ate some parsley for the first time since last Wednesday so hopefully this is a sign he is picking up. Maybe Cookie will improve soon too - I think it takes longer that I first imagined to get over a dental and so as long as Cookie is ok in himself and wanting to eat then hopefully the interest in the healthy food will follow. I know when I am ill I only want tomato soup and lucozade so maybe its the same with our poorly, fussy boys!!
Nose rubs to Cookie
xx

oh yes our pets always know what they like and how to get it from us. Hope you baby picks up soon. When do you dose Blossom with Metacam? Might be worth doing it about an hour before his main feeding time of the day like me so the Metacam hasn't been in his system that long and is at it's most effective?

 

[Shimmer]

Didn't mean to scare you - their teeth are constantly growing. You have to balance keeping their guts going (ie any food that they will eat, if necessary) in the short term, with keeping the teeth worn down so you are not back at square one and needing dentals possibly every 4-6 weeks to remove spurs.

Soft food is a good short-term measure to help with recovery after an illness or general anaesthetic when they must eat something, but the fibre is needed for proper gut mobility and dental abrasion.

My last dental bunny had his front teeth burred almost weekly at one point, and molar spurs removed every few months. He had major jaw abscesses, though. He found it very difficult to chew certain shapes and it was always a balance of keeping him eating to maintain his weight, versus number of dentals a year. Dandelion leaves were always a favourite.

 

[BerryJane]

I normally give it around bed time. They free range in the day and then have the kitchen in the evening so that is when they eat more - through the night. This time cos he was so poorly the vets injected metacam for 3 days as I couldnt disguise it in food as he wasnt eating anything and he was so stressed at having critical care syringed in him I just wanted to be certain he was geting the fulll dosage directly into him. I have stopped the metacam for now though as he does seem fine - pooping normally - and eating easily enough - just what he chooses but as I say he has started eating more herbs now.

Just to echo the raspberry leaves food - mine absolutely love them and it always gives me a warm feeling seeing them eat so gustily while knowing how good it is for them. Normally mine eat gustilly when they have snuck something they shouldnt have!!

Hopefully he will continue to pick up and hugs to Bella too!!

 

[BerryJane]

Hi Shimmer,

Thats what I find the most difficult and stressful of all. I so want Blossom to eat that I would try him with anything I know he likes, on the other hand that nice piece of pineapple, treat biscuit or carrot isnt doing much for his teeth! :? It is really, really hard and when they wont eat the high fibre food it is awful!!

Haivng spoke to my vet at length (who obviously completely advocates a high fibre diet) she did say that the good diet will only play a small part in the prevention of spur growth in bunnies who are going to be prone to needing dentals. Basically it will happen anyway cos of the structure of the jaw / teeth - yes ensure a high fibre diet but brace yourself for monthly / 6 weekly dentals!! :shock: My other 2 are on the same diet so it does kind of make sense - why Blossom and not Bramble or Berry??

Off out to cut more raspberry leaves
Take care xx

 

[dinklepip]

you didn't scare me BerryJane, I was just surprised in how quickly they grow, asked my vet that question on Saturday and she couldn't answer it

i don't know of anywhere around me where I can find raspberry or bramble leaves BUT when I was round mums earlier today I was mooching around the garden and they have a wild blackberry bush at the bottom of the garden that I have never seen before so I snaffled some of the leaves and Cookie loves them although I sliced them cutting away the sharp bits of the leaves as I don't want him refusing them lol. He is eating really pretty much everything I offer him and certainly wants to eat but still not touching the hay or grass. He seems to enjoy a basil leaf and parsley as I purchased two plants from Sainsburys yesterday so they can both have them freshly picked every day although Bella turned her nose up at the basil leaf lol. Went off and bought a bale of hay today which has made a total mess of the back seat of my car and also the drive lol. Problem is that it's too thick and coarse and there is no way Cookie will even attempt to eat it. The fresh hay I normally get is much finer and softer but he is still refusing it.

I can't help thinking that my vet has cocked up and filed his grinding teeth down too much when in fact they could well have been left alone and just the spurs removed. Am a little peed off as I left a message for her on Saturday morning giving an update on Cookie in that things wern't right and I haven't received a call back from her although one of the other vets phoned me Saturday morning when she sorted the Metacam out for me, so that conversation might have cancelled out the message I left

 

[dinklepip]

Hi Shimmer,

Thats what I find the most difficult and stressful of all. I so want Blossom to eat that I would try him with anything I know he likes, on the other hand that nice piece of pineapple, treat biscuit or carrot isnt doing much for his teeth! :? It is really, really hard and when they wont eat the high fibre food it is awful!!

Haivng spoke to my vet at length (who obviously completely advocates a high fibre diet) she did say that the good diet will only play a small part in the prevention of spur growth in bunnies who are going to be prone to needing dentals. Basically it will happen anyway cos of the structure of the jaw / teeth - yes ensure a high fibre diet but brace yourself for monthly / 6 weekly dentals!! :shock: My other 2 are on the same diet so it does kind of make sense - why Blossom and not Bramble or Berry??

Off out to cut more raspberry leaves
Take care xx

Bella had dental about a year ago and has never had any problems since and Cookie's recent dental was his first in the 8.5 yrs I have had him

 

[BerryJane]

How are they both doing today?? Blossom turned his nose up at raspberry leaves last night - Bramble just hoovered them up for him instead!! But he has eaten a few dandelion leaves this morning. He is following me around jumping up and down expecting treats every time now though - think again young man!!

Blossom had his first dental June 4th and then his second 24th July when the vets said his spurs were already quite sharp!! Even though I took him the first sign of difficulty they must have grown so fast. Maybe thats why my vets have warned me to expect frequent dentals, she said one done the time between each one can get shorter too!! Stress city here I come I think!!!!

 

[dinklepip]

How are they both doing today?? Blossom turned his nose up at raspberry leaves last night - Bramble just hoovered them up for him instead!! But he has eaten a few dandelion leaves this morning. He is following me around jumping up and down expecting treats every time now though - think again young man!!

Blossom had his first dental June 4th and then his second 24th July when the vets said his spurs were already quite sharp!! Even though I took him the first sign of difficulty they must have grown so fast. Maybe thats why my vets have warned me to expect frequent dentals, she said one done the time between each one can get shorter too!! Stress city here I come I think!!!!

He seems ok this morning although I haven't given him much yet as the tiredness and depression finally got to me and I couldn't be bothered to get out of bed until after 10.30am and only then because my cat Sam was pawing at my face wanting his brekkies lol.

I did him another small bowl last night with some recovery plus mixed in water, with a couple of soaked pellets and also chopped up very finely a little grass and parsley. The little ****** has had some but the grass is still there lol.

So weird as he can eat both hard and soft foods, but struggles with anything flat which is why I am thinking his grinding teeth have been filed down too flat?


I shall book him again next week just to check inside his mouth to make sure there are no spurs

 

[dinklepip]

this is what I am trying Cookie with, neither seem to be keen on the cornflower one but both go nuts for the sunflower and camomile stick and the other one on the right which is a harder dandelion and seed stick, I just break bits off and scatter in their run the sunflower one is also softer than the one of the far right, along with a small amount of mixed bird seed which I also scatter. Cookie seems to be able to manage those fine. Also the hay they have always loved which is softer and finer at the moment due to the bad weather. They both have always had the Vitakraft hay too in different flavours plus of course a small amount of SS pellets

 

[dinklepip]

OMG just had a real scare here with Cookie. Just gave him his bitesize shredded wheat with Metacam on which he managed and then I gave him a little parsley and he nearly choked. That's the more obvious problem, soft flatish food which he can't seem to grind down properly which still makes me think the teeth he uses for grinding are either too flat or smooth...... what the hell am I gonna do

 

[dinklepip]

I am wondering whether I should pop him back tomorrow just for a quick look inside his mouth, just in case any spurs have come back since his dental a week ago. Am I just panicking? what do you think?

 

[BerryJane]

For your piece of mind I would take him to be checked out. It may be nothing too serious but you may get an answer to your worries. Hope he is ok xx

 

[dinklepip]

I am taking him back tomorrow afternoon, he seems in discomfort today and watching him closely he is having trouble eating anything. Just offered him a few pellets soaked in water which he is lapping up but he doesn't look happy at all today plus the fact his poops are minute, smaller than yesterday

 

[BerryJane]

Hope Cookie got on ok today at the vets!? xx

 

[dinklepip]

Back about half hour ago and boy did I have to wait for a long time before Simon called me in lol. He can't understand why Cookie is doing what he is doing, his teeth seem fine AND the whole thing might just be that Cookie is trying to get used to a different sensation in his mouth as he has never had dental in the 8 years I have had him. Both he and Kim watched him try to eat different things and couldn't see anything untoward but he deffo has cystitis again and rather than give the antibiotic that my vet gave him (which Simon said wasn't really suitable for bunnies), he has given me some Zithromax Suspension and also Panacur purely as a precaution just in case of an inner ear infection or E.cunicul which I have to try and give him, HOW I don't know as Simon made it look so easy and Cookie isn't a bun that is used to being picked up. I am just so clutzy when it comes to things like this as I feel I would hurt them. Also have to continue with the Metacam. Don't want to overload Cookie with everything at once so if I try giving him the Zithromax and Panacur then give him his Metacam a couple of hours later? THEN I have to fit in some Fibreplex (which I usually smear on his side which freaks him out as he doesn't really like the taste and has to lick if off, and yet when I had to treat Bella with it, it freely ate the Fibreplex....work that one out!!!!!

He was surprisingly good in the car but struggled like hell when Simon picked him up to give him his meds. He seems to think that Cookie might need more time to adjust and didn't want to put him under again for yet a third dental.

I have a provisional appointment next Tuesday, just have to see how he goes on.

Have been reading that buns quite like Panacur so I might try and disguise it on a treat. If he wont have it I have to syringe it into his mouth and I don't know how the hell I am gonna manage that on my own.

One good bit of news is that he has gained a few grams in weight which I was surprised at and would you believe when I was talking to Kim this morning whilst we were watching Cookie, he decided to have a nibble at some hay, after all he put me through, although he barely touched it.

Felt a bid of an idiot panicking but one thing she said to me that will stick with me forever is "you can't panic too soon with a rabbit"....how true

Just tried to settle him down a little now with some more recovery plus and soaked pellets to make a soup for him and start again tomorrow

 

[BerryJane]

Ah bless him, glad he is no worse. As your vet said it must feel strange haivng stuff done to his teeth 8 and a half years into your life!! As you say, I dont care how fussy I appear to anyone if you are concerned then get them seen. We know them so well, I always spot ifferentces just by looking at them - I know their normal sitting / lying position and routine - any changes normally means something is not quite right!

Hope he continues to be ok for you - and your bill!! xx

 

[dinklepip]

Ah bless him, glad he is no worse. As your vet said it must feel strange haivng stuff done to his teeth 8 and a half years into your life!! As you say, I dont care how fussy I appear to anyone if you are concerned then get them seen. We know them so well, I always spot ifferentces just by looking at them - I know their normal sitting / lying position and routine - any changes normally means something is not quite right!

Hope he continues to be ok for you - and your bill!! xx

awwwwwwwwww thank you honey, I am exactly the same, I know their every move and you have to with buns as things can change so quickly. Very worried about not being able to get all this stuff down him, he's had a tough few weeks and must be really fed of me right now