Are these healthy poos?

[LionheadLuver]

I'd try upping the pellets slightly- maybe two handfuls if you have small hands- see if there is a change. I'd also add some parsley, mint, abit of carrot and a green leaf of spring greens, or even half a leaf if they are not used to veg.

Sounds like you are feeding enough hay. I would say those particular poo's look unhealthy. I have had my buns with dark poos from time to time, and not always are they unwell.

One of mine has particularly golden poos at the moment- she is on veg and hay- i give her pellets very occasionally but she is indoors.

My outdoor buns are getting more pellets as it takes more food to keep warm in these freezing temperatures. I don't want to give any advice- just try different things (introducing or taking away gradually and see if anything works).

How are the buns weight wise?

their weight is good, I'd say they were around the 2kg mark. They are not skinny by any means, but not fat either.

The vast majority of the poos they produce every day are round, and normal shaped. But every day (for their whole life), I find 5-6 of the sausage poos and only recently, I find 5-6 of the small poos (so I don't know what is causing the small poos recently?). Could it be I'm not feeding enough pellets, so they are using more of the nutrition out of the pellet to keep warm, and therefore producing a few small poos as a result? because the cold weather only started a few weeks ago.

I am wondering if their pellet is too rich? Alfalfa based pellets aren't good, are they?

 

[LionheadLuver]

this is very interesting. Sebastian occasionally produces these wet/sausage shapped poos :?

what do you feed him? (if it's a similar diet, maybe this may bring an answer?)

 

[Ambience]

I feed science selective. Just going to do the evening clean and poo check. I believe sunny has dark round poos at the moment. He was binkying about all over this morning so quite happy

 

[Georgeypudding]

what do you feed him? (if it's a similar diet, maybe this may bring an answer?)

he's always been on P@H junior and dwarf (probably a little too much ) and hay with occasional veg as a treat :wave: I dont often find them so I dont know what make him produce them :?

 

[shay]

Barnaby's poos are within this range of colour / sizes. I can instantly tell which are his and which are Pebbles'.

He's on Excell (he will change to SS), veggies and a few herbs, and lots of hay. He also eats grass (although it's nearly bare now :lol.

I collected Barnaby from rescue less than 2 weeks ago, so I assumed his poor quality poops are down to the change in diet etc. He was only fed veggies once a week. However, I also discovered on Saturday that he has pinworms and I'm now treating both with Panacur. He was seriously underweight but, thankfully, is now starting to gain.

I guess the pinwoms aren't helping his digestive health, but I am starting to notice an improvement in poops and in his overall condition.

So I'll be following this thread for more advice

 

[prettylupin]

their weight is good, I'd say they were around the 2kg mark. They are not skinny by any means, but not fat either.

The vast majority of the poos they produce every day are round, and normal shaped. But every day (for their whole life), I find 5-6 of the sausage poos and only recently, I find 5-6 of the small poos (so I don't know what is causing the small poos recently?). Could it be I'm not feeding enough pellets, so they are using more of the nutrition out of the pellet to keep warm, and therefore producing a few small poos as a result? because the cold weather only started a few weeks ago.

I am wondering if their pellet is too rich? Alfalfa based pellets aren't good, are they?

Nope, small poos have NOTHING to do with nutrition and EVERYTHING to do with reduced gut motility which is primarily caused by too little fibre and/or too much starch/carbohydrate (too many cereals e.g. pelleted rabbit food) but can also be attributable to stress, pain or be secondary to caecal dysbiosis.

Didn't you have a fox prowling around your garden a while back? Or am I confusing you with someone else?

The reason the waste droppings decrease in size to be very small is because bun is either not eating enough (dental, pain, stress) and therefore the amount of indigestible fibre (what the droppings consist of) is reduced overall, or secondary to this ileus occurs (gut slowdown). Poor motility = small dry droppings. If you combine the damp sausage poops with the tiny ones they together signify to me a bun with reduced or interrupted/uneven gut motility. Feeding more pellets will not correct this at all. Increasing fibre intake is the only way to increase gut motility short of using a course of gut motility drugs to regulate the neurological control of the bowel and caecal emptying. If these irregular droppings continue I would suggest you see the vet and request a course of both upper and lower prokinetic agents to see if this rectifies the bowel rhythm.

 

[Georgeypudding]

Nope, small poos have NOTHING to do with nutrition and EVERYTHING to do with reduced gut motility which is primarily caused by too little fibre and/or too much starch/carbohydrate (too many cereals e.g. pelleted rabbit food) but can also be attributable to stress, pain or be secondary to caecal dysbiosis.

Didn't you have a fox prowling around your garden a while back? Or am I confusing you with someone else?

The reason the waste droppings decrease in size to be very small is because bun is either not eating enough (dental, pain, stress) and therefore the amount of indigestible fibre (what the droppings consist of) is reduced overall, or secondary to this ileus occurs (gut slowdown). Poor motility = small dry droppings. If you combine the damp sausage poops with the tiny ones they together signify to me a bun with reduced or interrupted/uneven gut motility. Feeding more pellets will not correct this at all. Increasing fibre intake is the only way to increase gut motility short of using a course of gut motility drugs to regulate the neurological control of the bowel and caecal emptying. If these irregular droppings continue I would suggest you see the vet and request a course of both upper and lower prokinetic agents to see if this rectifies the bowel rhythm.

With one bun who does this do you think it would be okay to cut his pellets out and only feed him hay :?:wave: he's a bit over weight anyway

 

[LionheadLuver]

Nope, small poos have NOTHING to do with nutrition and EVERYTHING to do with reduced gut motility which is primarily caused by too little fibre and/or too much starch/carbohydrate (too many cereals e.g. pelleted rabbit food) but can also be attributable to stress, pain or be secondary to caecal dysbiosis.

Didn't you have a fox prowling around your garden a while back? Or am I confusing you with someone else?

The reason the waste droppings decrease in size to be very small is because bun is either not eating enough (dental, pain, stress) and therefore the amount of indigestible fibre (what the droppings consist of) is reduced overall, or secondary to this ileus occurs (gut slowdown). Poor motility = small dry droppings. If you combine the damp sausage poops with the tiny ones they together signify to me a bun with reduced or interrupted/uneven gut motility. Feeding more pellets will not correct this at all. Increasing fibre intake is the only way to increase gut motility short of using a course of gut motility drugs to regulate the neurological control of the bowel and caecal emptying. If these irregular droppings continue I would suggest you see the vet and request a course of both upper and lower prokinetic agents to see if this rectifies the bowel rhythm.

we always have foxes in the garden (they live next door and regularly come into the garden). The hutch is always covered at night so they can't see them, but I'm sure they smell them.

So to increase fibre intake, should I change over to a higher fibre pellet (eg Bunny Basics/T)? And should I feed more timothy hay as this is higher in fibre too? (I think they prefer Oxbow timothy to Alfalfa King so will have to wait until I finish this bag before buying the Oxbow hay).

How long should I let them continue before seeing a vet? before or after christmas?

 

[prettylupin]

With one bun who does this do you think it would be okay to cut his pellets out and only feed him hay :?:wave: he's a bit over weight anyway

Of course. Provided bun is healthy and able to maintain a good weight on a hay only diet then this is a perfectly acceptable diet for a rabbit. Mine have not had pellets for years. :wave:
However, outdoor buns may need more sustenance in this bitterly cold weather. :?

 

[LionheadLuver]

and are these good to increase fibre too and aid gut mobility?

http://www.petsathome.com/shop/woodlands-dandelion-feast-90g-26381

http://www.petsathome.com/shop/woodlands-clover-and-plantain-leaf-mix-80g-26365

http://www.petsathome.com/shop/woodlands-blackcurrant-and-apple-120g-26371

 

[Martine]

it's suprising you say that actually, because Molly did have a mild case of stasis in around October/November time. She recovered overnight, but i wonder if this may be the aftermath of it. :?

As long as poos, even scarce, dry and small are still produced, the gut motility has slowed down, but not stopped - yet - this is why we must be very careful and go the vet to get some stimulant for digestic track to keep moving if it does not move in spite of all adequate food we give them. It is a vicious circle as the rabbit eat less = less poo = less appetite which can lead to anorexia.. My experience is not to wait over 24h if what we give is not improving the stituation particularly when the rabbit is not reactive..or sleeps a lot..

Once we have be confronted with stasis, we can easily make the difference between the dropping of slowed down transit and the hairball relax because in that later case, the drops are formed and linked together with hair like for praying !

 

[LionheadLuver]

As long as poos, even scarce, dry and small are still produced, the gut motility has slowed down, but not stopped - yet - this is why we must be very careful and go the vet to get some stimulant for digestic track to keep moving if it does not move in spite of all adequate food we give them. It is a vicious circle as the rabbit eat less = less poo = less appetite which can lead to anorexia.. My experience is that not to wait over 24h if what we give is not improving the stituation particularly when the rabbit is "aloof" and not reactive..or sleeps a lot

is this in reply to when a rabbit is in stasis? Molly only refused to eat for about 4 hours that time, and recovered quickly. At the moment, they are eating well.

 

[prettylupin]

and are these good to increase fibre too and aid gut mobility?

http://www.petsathome.com/shop/woodlands-dandelion-feast-90g-26381

http://www.petsathome.com/shop/woodlands-clover-and-plantain-leaf-mix-80g-26365

http://www.petsathome.com/shop/woodlands-blackcurrant-and-apple-120g-26371

Personally I wouldn't touch the P@H Woodland range with a barge pole. It has caused acute dysbiosis with my rabbits and with several other members rabbits on here. The best range of dried herbs are on the hayexperts www.thehayexperts.co.uk from the Naturals, Burns and Excel range IMO.
But you've got the right idea. I would suspect the Woodlands range has either preservatives on it or has been grown with herbicides/insecticides. Obviously this is just my suspicion and nothing I can prove. :wave:

 

[prettylupin]

we always have foxes in the garden (they live next door and regularly come into the garden). The hutch is always covered at night so they can't see them, but I'm sure they smell them.

So to increase fibre intake, should I change over to a higher fibre pellet (eg Bunny Basics/T)? And should I feed more timothy hay as this is higher in fibre too? (I think they prefer Oxbow timothy to Alfalfa King so will have to wait until I finish this bag before buying the Oxbow hay).

How long should I let them continue before seeing a vet? before or after christmas?

If they are eating well at the moment I would try and improve the droppings with diet alone first of all, but keep a close eye on them both as those tiny droppings are a warning sign. Any deterioration in appetite or droppings requires vet intervention asap.

I would not be surprised if the presence of foxes in your garden is causing ongoing stress sufficient to upset the gut flora i'm afraid. Can the buns not become house buns?

My two prefer Oxbow to Alfalfa king as well. I would certainly slowly introduce/blend a higher fibre pellet and increase the amount of higher fibre hay and forage to begin with to see if things improve.

 

[LionheadLuver]

Personally I wouldn't touch the P@H Woodland range with a barge pole. It has caused acute dysbiosis with my rabbits and with several other members rabbits on here. The best range of dried herbs are on the hayexperts www.thehayexperts.co.uk from the Naturals, Burns and Excel range IMO.
But you've got the right idea. I would suspect the Woodlands range has either preservatives on it or has been grown with herbicides/insecticides. Obviously this is just my suspicion and nothing I can prove. :wave:

Ok. Thanks. I'll use the herbs from the hay experts then.

Do you think it's sensible to increase fibre intake one at a time, like firstly, introduce herbs, then if that doesn't improve it, then introduce oxbow timothy hay (which they prefer to the stuff I have at the moment:roll, and if that doesn't work, introduce bunny basics, and if that doesn't work, go to the vet for gut mobility drugs?
(EDIT: sorry, we posted at same time, you answered this above).

 

[Martine]

is this in reply to when a rabbit is in stasis? Molly only refused to eat for about 4 hours that time, and recovered quickly. At the moment, they are eating well.

It was in the case of my rabbit but I dont know if this can happen for other problems impacting the motility of the track. Your rabbit may have had a short problem which has slowed down the track. And lack of appetite caused by pain for example or stress = no poos, itis a vicious circle.

Stasis scientific name is ileus

 

[LionheadLuver]

If they are eating well at the moment I would try and improve the droppings with diet alone first of all, but keep a close eye on them both as those tiny droppings are a warning sign. Any deterioration in appetite or droppings requires vet intervention asap.

I would not be surprised if the presence of foxes in your garden is causing ongoing stress sufficient to upset the gut flora i'm afraid. Can the buns not become house buns?

My two prefer Oxbow to Alfalfa king as well. I would certainly slowly introduce/blend a higher fibre pellet and increase the amount of higher fibre hay and forage to begin with to see if things improve.

Ok, I'll start improving their diet to see if that works, but will keep a close eye to see that they don't deteriorate.

They can't really become house rabbits because our cat lives upstairs and our dog lives downstairs, so the rabbits would be confined to around 8sqft of space, and the carpet/floor is too hard for Molly's hocks. I don't want to create a new problem by trying to solve another.

 

[LionheadLuver]

I just read on another forum from an america mini rex breeder that the broken gene, which creates charlies and brokens, has an effect on the digestive system and they have reduced gut mobility, and their guts run slower than other rabbits, making them, i guess more suspectible to stasis. :? Could this be true?

 

[Georgeypudding]

Of course. Provided bun is healthy and able to maintain a good weight on a hay only diet then this is a perfectly acceptable diet for a rabbit. Mine have not had pellets for years. :wave:
However, outdoor buns may need more sustenance in this bitterly cold weather. :?

Thankyou, they are in the conservatory atm so I'll reduce Sebastians with a view to stop the pellets for him :wave: Can he still have crunchies

 

[thumps_]

In view of the good fiber intake in their diet I think your buns need to see a good exotics vet with an interest in rabbits. I notice the markings around Milly's eyes.
We need to know exactly what is going on here, which means a thorough examination, basic tests, & possibly an ultrasound of the abdomen if the vet is experienced in the technique.
We also need to know whether your buns have megacolon type issues, which need different long term care,to maintain weight, essential nutrients, & hydration etc. from other gut issues.

ETA the patterning round the eye is only a risk factor - it does NOT mean that megacolon is inevitable, but when coupled with those poops, I think it need to be considered.
My bun has megacolon type issues since 16 weeks old he's still alive at nearly 51/2 & my siggy is a photo of him aged 4.