Still chase after stress bonding

I want to bond a 2yrs old lionhead dwarf crossbreed boy, we name him Oreo (small in size) with my 2yrs old lop ear cross girl, Ginger (large in size). Oreo is always a solo but Ginger was living with anotger rabbit who just died of old age. They have all been neutered but the boy only done it a month ago while my girl has done it over a year.

Over the weekend, we initially tried to put them out in garden in separate pen and then took the middle panel out. Despite the small size, Oreo has mount on Ginger's head and back a few times and pulling her hair out. Not sure is it because the over pulling fur or what, Ginger start chasing him in circle and got him down so we separate them. We then tried few more times but this time as soon as Ginger approach, little Oreo will dash away and Ginger would start to chase after few seconds. However both rabbits eat and drink when a panel between them.

We then tried the stress in bonding in the car on Sunday. They got quiet and calm so we put them in the top level of the hutch and block the escape to the bottom level over night. We have checked few times. Female Ginger kept eating and drinking and very relax, sleeping with her belly up but the male Oreo stayed in the corner most of the time. He did come out several times to drink and sat next to Ginger for a while. Ginger even licked his head. So I tried to let them out to the bottom level of the hutch but only Ginger went down. As soon as she got up to the top level, Oreo started running away from her again and this trigger Ginger chase him and pull fur.

Then I reput them back inside a small box and as soon as I heard chasing inside, I banged a tin lid on the box to stop the chase. I did peek several times and saw Ginger lying flat but Oreo remained alert. Ginger even licked his head and ears! I waited an hr and then put them back to the hutch and Oreo started hiding at the corner immediately and as soon as Ginger got near he dashed and Ginger chased.

I am not sure what should I do next, should I just lock them back together in the top hutch or should I separate them tonight and tried the whatever bonding tomorrow? It seems Ginger will only chase if Oero run .

Sorry for the long post,I really not sure what to do next.

Hello there! I wouldn't leave them together overnight as Ginger might hurt Oreo - he seems to know she doesn't want to be friendly so runs away.

You must make surre Ginger is not in a hutch etc which she has been in before - it must be neutral as female rabbits are very territorial. So try putting thrm both in an area where she hasn't been and as long as they don't fight try to keep them together for a few days, by which time Ginger hopefully will be accepting Oreo better.

Thanks for the reply, Tonibun. I have the hutch inside a green house where previously I let the hutch door open so the rabbits can wander round. We have clean the hutch and the greenhouse floor with thin bleach before put them together so I think most smell should be covered.

I saw Ginger licked Oreo few times so I thought that is the sign she accepts Oero but because Oero still run every time she gets near so she think it is fun to chase him (or simply too angry/sad so chase?) When they were both inside a small area then nothing happen except the initial chase attempt.

I have put only Oero inside the hutch and Ginger is outside but still within the greenhouse tonight. So what can I do next? Can I try stress bonding again tomorrow or wait few days?

Stress bonding doesn't tend to work very well and we don't think it's fair on the rabbits tbh so you will just have to keep putting them together and monitoring them, but if the female keeps chasing Oreo then the bond might not work. Good luck and let us know how it goes please.

Thanks. I've spoken to his owner at first she just gave me a week time to bond the pair and if not work she would take him away so I used stress bonding as this is the quickest.

Now she tends to understand this bonding process isn't that straight forward so willing to wait for few more weeks. Although still not ideal but at least can give both rabbits a bit more time to understand each other first.

I will let them swap sleeping place (one inside the hutch and other one outside but still in the greenhouse) this week and see the result). I think it looks like little Oreo too scared of Ginger (maybe she is twice bigger than him) despite Ginger just want to be friends with him (she even licked him few times!)

I am currently bonding a 'serial failed to bond rabbit' with my rabbit and to be honest, I really think most other people would have given this one up rather than stick with it as we have ~ it has been a nightmare but .. I think we have finally turned a corner

From what you say, I think it all sounds rather haphazard and without a proper plan of action. This is just my opinion and my experience, but first off you need to have the time to dedicate yourself solely to the process. I would choose a weekend (a long weekend would be great) or ideally longer. It can also be helpful to have someone to help take the strain and for moral support, especially if this is the first time you have bonded rabbits. In all honestly, this
is not for the fainthearted!

Get some tools of the trade! Tough gloves (to protect hands from skirmishes) and we found this time a piece of card/board to slip between them if it becomes necessary.

Our method is neutral space. Our rabbit is an outdoor rabbit so we set up the conservatory with some mesh panels, initially using a litter tray with hay in it and just enough space outside the tray for a bowl of water. Be prepared to spend a considerable amount of time on this stage. Just seeing a lick or two does not ensure bonded rabbits. If they go for each other, distract with a towel or something or pick up one or the other and turn him around. Don't let it get too nasty.

When you are happy they are reasonably calm together, slowly (so as they are hardly aware) increase their space. As the space has increased, we have taken away the litter tray as it served as a boundary and left only a layer of plastic and cardboard to protect the floor covered with newspaper and a good layer of hay. Each time you increase the space, be confident they are calm in the space they already occupy. Spread the hay out to mask the new boundary - again keep increasing the area only an 2 or 3 inches or so. This could take hours or days. If at the end of the day you are not confident they will be safe together, separate by inserting a mesh panel, so they can still see each other.

As the space increases, chasing might happen. Try not to intervene too soon - and this is the difficult part knowing when and when not to intervene ... But do try let them sort it out themselves.

Also, be prepared to sleep alongside the rabbits - you can't risk leaving them unattended until you are as confident as can be, that they are safe enough to be left unattended. So far my husband has sat up one night and for the last two nights I have slept on a mattress downstairs.

Hope this helps a little

Thanks. I think you are right I don't have a plan and then stick to it. Oreo's owner can't make up her mind to try how long the bonding. She already has a pair of rabbits and Oreo is given by her friend. Her pair never want to accept him so Oreo is always live as solo for his 2yrs rabbit life and very close to human. She knows one of my rabbit just passed away and it is better to live in pair hence this bonding. But neither us have much experience (I had one very fail experience and another dream bond was in charge by a rescue centre owner) in bonding so not sure how long we should try for.

I think my failure is the increase in neutral zone size is too fast as i have noticed if in small area, both Oreo and Ginger are very clam although not very close. However I don't have much time to sit with them in weekday, maybe I will try again with my sister in weekend.

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The box that I used to calm them down.



Ginger lied flat on one side and Oreo stay awake in the other side but no fight.



Then I put both inside the top of hutch and they remained calm overnight.



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Personally, I would ditch the box.

I really think the boy needs more time after his op for his hormones to die down as well. Perhaps someone here knows how long it takes?

Also, looking at the basics, is your set-up adequate for two rabbits? They will need plenty of space! (As does one rabbit of course ).

...

They have the whole greenhouse plus a bit of outdoor place to run round. They back to the greenhouse at night.



This is the whole hutch but I just used the top level to bond in the beginning.



They are grooming themselves "together", one inside one outside. [emoji4]

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The box is used as a carrier to calm them down in the car as it is big enough for 2 of them lie down also easier to clean.

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hyic said:

The box is used as a carrier to calm them down in the car as it is big enough for 2 of them lie down also easier to clean.

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Click to expand...

Can you imagine how terrifying it must be for them to be put in there together. I really do think it is cruel. Give his hormones a chance to die down and then bond in a neutral territory.

Is it? I used to box to bring back Ginger back when she bond with Cookie previously. The journey was even longer (about an hr) than I put them in the time (about 20 mins)? I did peek few times and Ginger lay flat and Oreo sat there. They not even snuggled up which supposed to! [emoji19]



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I take it that you are happy that his hormones have settled then? And that this is not causing them undue stress and unhappiness. Personally I would take Cara's advice.

cara said:

Personally, I would ditch the box.

I really think the boy needs more time after his op for his hormones to die down as well. Perhaps someone here knows how long it takes?

Also, looking at the basics, is your set-up adequate for two rabbits? They will need plenty of space! (As does one rabbit of course ).

Click to expand...

For a male's hormones to subside,we found in rescue that it took around three months :thumb:

To be fair, I have on occasion put 2 rabbits in an (appropriate) sized carrier. But I would never add a 'fear factor' such as to startle them to calm them down. I think it is potentially very counterproductive and not the best approach.

Great to see photos of your setup However, I do suspect the hutch arrangement itself is far too small especially if they are ever to be confined (which they shouldn't be).

We have (hopefully) bonded our current pair exactly as described and this is with the new female, from a rescue, having a history of problems bonding. In fact she has been in the rescue for nearly a year because of this. it took (discounting first w/end, as it really wasn't the time or place - sharp reminder to stick with what works and is tried and tested!!) from Friday evening (staying up thru the night) until Sunday (wasn't all smooth sailing and we had to remain hopeful and stick with the plan) and considering the problem bunny, I don't think that's bad at all!!

We are now reinforcing the bonding with time and having increased the space and hopefully they will be outside next weekend. This will also be gradual space wise. Ultimately they will have free run of the garden.

Again, I would advise to get the foundations right first, including the hormone issue with the boy bunny, choose a time where you have oodles to spare (be prepared to be tired - it can be intense), choose a 'method' (lots of ideas on here) and make a plan. Oh, but don't include the box with added fear factor! (Or even the box itself now).

Oh, and one other thing might be worth mentioning .. from experience rabbits who groom etc on different sides of the fence can still fight viciously when placed together:shock::

Oh, and one other thought (sorry) you sound very pressurised by the person giving you a set time. Don't let this make you rush all unprepared. It's a recipe for disaster and will only add to the stress and not add to success. Hope this all helps

It is only a month after his op, so I'd better wait 2 more months then try again?

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Yes, that seems to be the advice given. Will also give you some breathing space

The frighten factor ie car ride and noise is I saw some bun parent talk about this here.

Cara, is the space not enough for 2 buns? I thought they already has the whole greenhouse plus a bit of outdoor which we added using pet pen. The lady from rescue centre where we adopted Ginger said 3 "hop spaces" is the minimum. Previously they (Ginger and cookie) have my whole garden before we moved but this house the previous owner is a gardener and planted a lot of rabbit dangerous plants hence I have to limit their running space. Don't want them to munch anything not suppose to.
https://vimeo.com/163390831

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