Snuffles- what have you tried?

I know there are numerous snuffles threads, so sorry to add another one!

Basically, Foxie's sneezing is getting a little worse imo.
There is no change in behaviour, activity, appetite or anything- but if the sneezing is worse then everything else could get worse, and it makes me worry!

He is 9 months old and has already been on 2 courses of Baytril- 5 days and 10 days, and 2 courses of Septrin- 7 days and 14 days. Neither made any difference what-so-ever. And I mean that sincerely, there was not a single point during treatments when he sneezed more or less than normal. The only thing that I noticed significantly decreased his sneezing to the point where I didn't hear him every day was post-bonding to Bella!

The main treatment anyone has offered are those two anti-biotics.

The last vets (meant to be bunny experts ) we went to also said we could do cultures, but I don't know what that would gain if they would just give us the same anti-biotics again?
The vet before that (our vets for most of the last 10 years) said we could try homeopathy, which as far as I've seen in medical journals isn't usually effective, and would result in Foxie being subjected to a repeated stressful situation which I am not willing to do for an unproven treatment.

Sooooo, my questions are-
1) Do you think he should be treated again? Our old vets say to leave it for now, our new vets say to try a longer course of antibiotics. As I've said, he is fine in himself and it is only in the last couple of days I've noticed an increase in sneezing.
2) What treatment have my vets not tried that might work? What have you tried?
3) Do I need to be more worried than usual about my snuffle bun?

Thanks!

Swabs for culture and sensitivity testing may be helpful as they can identify the exact bacteria involved and the most appropriate antibiotic to treat it with. BUT sometimes the infection is very deep within the nasal passages and the results may actually not provide much info at all.

There are certainly more than 2 antibiotics that could be prescribed and in most cases the course of treatment needs to be long. Several weeks as opposed to 7 days.

Getting good drainage of the sinuses is also important, so a daily non steroidal anti-inflammatory (eg Metacam) and a mucolytic (Bisolvon) to thin out the secretions allowing easier drainage.

Giving antibiotics via a nebuliser or via antibiotic eye drops (as long as the naso-lacrimal ducts are draining) is another option. This can provided a more targeted dosing and is usually done in conjunction with systemic antibiotics.

Some cases of 'Snuffles' are related to problems with the tooth roots Elongated roots can invade the nasal passages leading to inflammation and infection. ETR can only be accurately diagnosed from skull radiographs.

I have one Rabbit with chronic nasal congestion, the result of a severe upper and lower RTI a few years ago. She is not always on antibiotics, but during a bad flare up she responds well to Depocillin (by injection ONLY), daily Metacam, Bisolvon, Tiacil Eye drops and nebulised saline solution. She is not able to be vaccinated as vaccination ALWAYS brings on a severe relapse.

Jack's-Jane said:

Swabs for culture and sensitivity testing may be helpful as they can identify the exact bacteria involved and the most appropriate antibiotic to treat it with. BUT sometimes the infection is very deep within the nasal passages and the results may actually not provide much info at all.

There are certainly more than 2 antibiotics that could be prescribed and in most cases the course of treatment needs to be long. Several weeks as opposed to 7 days.

Getting good drainage of the sinuses is also important, so a daily non steroidal anti-inflammatory (eg Metacam) and a mucolytic (Bisolvon) to thin out the secretions allowing easier drainage.

Giving antibiotics via a nebuliser or via antibiotic eye drops (as long as the naso-lacrimal ducts are draining) is another option. This can provided a more targeted dosing and is usually done in conjunction with systemic antibiotics.

Some cases of 'Snuffles' are related to problems with the tooth roots Elongated roots can invade the nasal passages leading to inflammation and infection. ETR can only be accurately diagnosed from skull radiographs.

I have one Rabbit with chronic nasal congestion, the result of a severe upper and lower RTI a few years ago. She is not always on antibiotics, but during a bad flare up she responds well to Depocillin (by injection ONLY), daily Metacam, Bisolvon, Tiacil Eye drops and nebulised saline solution. She is not able to be vaccinated as vaccination ALWAYS brings on a severe relapse.

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Thanks so much for your response. The vets did say we could try a longer course, but if he didn't respond to a short course at all they don't think a longer course will be any difference.

Three different veterinary practices have said pasturella, so that's what I'm going with for now. His brother had it since we got him, and Foxie's onset was when the two started fighting.

The one thing I can't work out is what counts as a 'bad flare up'. Foxie occasionally sneezing is standard Foxie behaviour, what would count as a flare up?

You've definitely given some more ideas!

Excellent advice from J-J as always.

The usual advice is to give 6 weeks of ABx even if symptoms improve rapidly, but I truely believe that the whole key is to get the sinuses draining well, as Jane says with bisolvon &/or nebuliser & metacam.

My Benjie had both snuffles & abscesses before his plums dropped.
Although he has been completely snuffles free for nearly 7 months I continue his bisolvon & echinacea to maintain drainage. In this hot weather when his nasal cavity is more likely to dry out, I also give him a plain saline nebuliser.

Coco has bisolvon to thin the mucas and then septrin usually for around 3-4 weeks when he gets a flare up we don't treat him every time he has a slightly runny nose or the odd sneezing only when he gets clogged up n it seems to be a problem x

I presume you're going to the Wood Veterinary Group in either Longlevens or Quedgley?

Cultures are VERY useful as they will tell you what antibiotics the bacteria is actually sensitive to. It turned out for us that it was sensitive to Baytril and Penicillin. We put Buckley on Baytril for several months and we've had it under control since before last summer

Jason has given us a rolling prescription of Bisolvon (we can ask for more packets as we need it) which is a mucus thinner and helps baytril work more effectively. We use it because the infection damaged Buckley's nose and sometimes he gets a bit of congealed (but not infectious) mucus pooling in his nose and the bisolvon just helps keep his airways clear.

He also had a short course of Metacam when we started the Baytril after the cultures came back which helped reduce the inflammation in his nose.

Basically, go to Jason and say YES YES A MILLION TIMES YES to the culture and sensitivity tests

i agree with Jacks jane

make sure tooth problems are ruled out- mine had to have an xray to do this. after months of abx my vet suggested an injectable one thats not usaully used in rabbits(cant remember the name now) thay had it once a week for 2 months or thereabouts. they also had to have a probiotic powder for their gut. they are both clear of snuffles now although it can come back.

if your vet is really unsure you could fine a really rabbit savvy one and egt the vets to consult over the phone about new ideas?

Pebblesetc said:

I presume you're going to the Wood Veterinary Group in either Longlevens or Quedgley?

Cultures are VERY useful as they will tell you what antibiotics the bacteria is actually sensitive to. It turned out for us that it was sensitive to Baytril and Penicillin. We put Buckley on Baytril for several months and we've had it under control since before last summer

Jason has given us a rolling prescription of Bisolvon (we can ask for more packets as we need it) which is a mucus thinner and helps baytril work more effectively. We use it because the infection damaged Buckley's nose and sometimes he gets a bit of congealed (but not infectious) mucus pooling in his nose and the bisolvon just helps keep his airways clear.

He also had a short course of Metacam when we started the Baytril after the cultures came back which helped reduce the inflammation in his nose.

Basically, go to Jason and say YES YES A MILLION TIMES YES to the culture and sensitivity tests

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Yes we are at Wood Group- but just for Foxie. It is a 30 minute drive away so our other animals go to Arvonia Animal Hospital which is the vets we've been at for 10+ years and is 5 minutes away.
The problem is, it's hard to find a time when we can take up to 2 hours out of the day for a vet visit- but it's worth it if we can get this sorted.

How much does the bisolvon cost and how is it administered/how often?

Thank you everyone for your responses, it has given me a better idea of what is available and what we should be aiming for.

Jaffacake said:

Yes we are at Wood Group- but just for Foxie. It is a 30 minute drive away so our other animals go to Arvonia Animal Hospital which is the vets we've been at for 10+ years and is 5 minutes away.
The problem is, it's hard to find a time when we can take up to 2 hours out of the day for a vet visit- but it's worth it if we can get this sorted.

How much does the bisolvon cost and how is it administered/how often?

Thank you everyone for your responses, it has given me a better idea of what is available and what we should be aiming for.

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About a fiver, you put a pinch on bunny's food. Longlevens branch surgery of Wood Vet is just the other side of Churchdown from Arvonia. Only about 15 mins from Hatherley/ The Reddings to the Longlevens branch (and I drive at the speed limit)

Pebblesetc said:

About a fiver, you put a pinch on bunny's food. Longlevens branch surgery of Wood Vet is just the other side of Churchdown from Arvonia. Only about 15 mins from Hatherley/ The Reddings to the Longlevens branch (and I drive at the speed limit)

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Ok cool- we took him to the Quedgely one last time because we wanted to have him done, but his snuffles flared up because of the stress of moving him and we ended up with another treatment instead.

Is Jason at the Longlevens branch?

I really appreciate all the help guys!

Jaffacake said:

Ok cool- we took him to the Quedgely one last time because we wanted to have him done, but his snuffles flared up because of the stress of moving him and we ended up with another treatment instead.

Is Jason at the Longlevens branch?

I really appreciate all the help guys!

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Jason is at the Longlevens branch on Tuesdays usually. Just ask for an appointment with Jason at Longlevens and they'll be able to tell you his available days and times