should I try the bisolvon again?

Grim is really not himself. I think he's in pain and I think it's from his sinuses.

He has snuffles and blocked tear ducts. The infection is most likely originating from a molar root and is localised to his right side. His right nostril runs and his right eye is the worse. In the last week or so both eyes have been very swollen and infected. His nose isn't really running.

Currently his is on baytril every day and penicillin injections every three days for the infection. This keeps it under control but doesn't cure it.

He has chloramphenicol (antibiotic) eye cream which I use when his eyes are infected. I have also been giving him Metacam for the last week for his swollen eyes and possible sinus issues.

I also use a nebuliser with saline solution as a decongestant for him.

We tried bisolvon a while ago with drastic results. Horrible yellow pus almost exploded from his eye and he stopped eating for a couple of days. Now Grim NEVER stops eating. He had two jaw abscesses and didn't stop eating. But I don't know if the bisolvon affected his stomach, or if the expulsion of the fluid from his eyes and other internal 'tubes' was just extremely painful. I stopped the bisolvon immediately but now I'm starting to think perhaps he was so bunged up it would be painful at first to expel it all but that I should have kept up with it. :?

He's not himself right now, he didn't come out of the hutch all day. He's not interested in bread, his favourite of all foods, but he is still eating pellets. (He doesn't/can't eat hay)

I'm contemplating asking my vet if we can try the bisolvon again.

Personally I'd get him back to the Vet to be re-examined before trying Bisolvon again. Unfortunately it can be that a lot is going on within the skull, related to the chronic infection, that cannot be seen externally. This can involve destruction of bone as the infection progresses. Obviously this would be extremely painful.

Another thing to consider is the risk of gut dysbiosis when on longterm abx. I would certainly want to discuss this with the Vet. The early signs of gut dysbiosis are usually a reduced appetite and general malaise. Then a change in fecal output follows.

Poor Grim, I hope the Vet can help to get him feeling better within himself.

Thanks. We were only at the vet a week ago and she was so happy with him then. It's just since we got back. He's always had a good quality of life throughout all this and I hate to see him so down.

Jenova said:

Thanks. We were only at the vet a week ago and she was so happy with him then. It's just since we got back. He's always had a good quality of life throughout all this and I hate to see him so down.

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Been mulling this over as I have been mucking out. I am wondering if Grim also has some otitis now ? Ear infections are VERY common in chronic cases of Snotty nose conditions. When Morse had earache the first sign was him going off certain foods and just not 'being Morse'. Whilst the infection was not in the middle ear, so no head tilt etc, it was right at the base of the outer ear and only evident when viewed with an otoscope.
So 'ears' might be another thing for the Vet to consider.

Bless him, poor love. I also wonder whether it's worth discussing trying metronidazole alongside the penicillin. Has there been a C&S done? I suspect it's so far up in his head that it might be like Santa and impossible to get a good sample, though. Metronidazole works on anaerobic bacteria so if the infection is right up inside his head it might be a good one to try, and it works well alongside penicillin because it increases the spectrum of bacteria it kills, plus it kills clostridia, and clostridial overgrowth causing gut problems is one of the risks with penicillin. Metronidazole turned out to be the most effective for Santa, it took about 3 weeks for it to fully 'kick in' but it made a staggering difference once it did. Might be worth discussing at least.

Good luck, hope your little fluffster is ok xx

Yeah we have discussed it but the baytril has always been effective with the penicillin. Might be worth thrying. Grim always used to have 'quiet' days which I thought might be to do with high air pressure but he would be fine after two days maximum. This has been going on for longer. And I'm too scared to take him off antibiotics for a culture test. I don't think he'd cope.

Jack's-Jane said:

Been mulling this over as I have been mucking out. I am wondering if Grim also has some otitis now ? Ear infections are VERY common in chronic cases of Snotty nose conditions. When Morse had earache the first sign was him going off certain foods and just not 'being Morse'. Whilst the infection was not in the middle ear, so no head tilt etc, it was right at the base of the outer ear and only evident when viewed with an otoscope.
So 'ears' might be another thing for the Vet to consider.

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Thank you for thinking about Grim. I will his ears checked.

I wanted to give him cuddles before I left this morning but he was too busy eating his poops and didn't look like he was about to stop any time soon. :lol: Love him.

Just here to add healing vibes for Grim. ((((((((((((Healing vibes))))))))))))))
I hope something can be done to help him, sweet bub. ((((((((((Snuggles for Grim))))))))))

It might have been his eye he is pain with. I've been massaging loads of pus out of his left eye. My vet showed me how and less is coming out now. Poor, poor boy.

I don't feel able to advise. Benjie's snuffles is "simple pastuerellosis" rather than the more complex issues which Grimlock has.
If I can send you anything at all, -leaves/plants please just pm me. I know Grimlock has his personal tastes in foods though.
Grimlock is one of my "Special bunnies". Both Thumper & now Benjie do what he does with the washing, but as a game with a strip of fabric. I call the game "Doing a Grimlock".
I'm thinking of you all. x

Thank you so much for the kind offer. He is very fussy.
His eye is so much better now. I hope it was just that. I will speak to my vet as well. So hard to know what to do.

Yep, I know Grim. but had to make the offer.
I'm currently exploring some ideas with Benjie, but not ready for any tentative conclusions yet. I DO want to support Jane's concept of PAIN from blocked sinuses/ eustachian tube to the ear & your concept that Grims gut problem with bisolvon was because of increased secretions which couldn't drain causing pain.

Jane, when all was at it's worst with abscessation & snuffles, Benjie started to scratch inside 1 ear for a couple of days for no apparent external reason. My heart sank. "NO not otitis media on top of all this". Fortunately all stopped.

I'm now wondering whether pain relief in snuffles is as important as in GI stasis. (I've seen grown men in tears from the pain from a blocked sinus). We usually give NSAID's anyway to reduce the swelling.
Benjie had signs of minor gut slow down at the beginning. He doesn't bother much with the Sloe leaves (natural gut motility agent) now, but has occasional days when he's a bit bunged up when he does eat them again.

I hit another problem when the discharge stopped. Is he better or is he just blocked & the infection is raging away inside? Then there's there the snot downpour episodes & are they getting worse? or are they in fact getting better cos they've just unblocked & got lots of muck out?

Jen, I'm so sorry it can't help Grim & so wish it could.
Fresh willow twigs are "nature's aspirin". I'm finding that Benjie tells me when he's in pain - presumably bunged up, by going crackers for willow (which I limit because it's an NSAI in it's own right) At least it tells me he needs metacam, & nebulisation before there are any other signs of trouble.

With the bisolvon, mindful of your experience with Grim I didn't use it for Benjie until all other measures had been put in place. Personally I think that nebulisation with simple saline is less likely to cause a build up of pressure (pain) behind a block. On the other hand some buns find a nebuliser very stressful which is counterproductive. I know that trying to syringe meds into Grim is very stressful for him because of his past history of tooth root abscess.
I suppose it's a case of walking that tight rope of what is available & what is acceptable, to an individual bunny.

It's an incredibly frustrating, & worrying illness to try to control cos we just don't know what's going on inside.

You've done wonders to get Grim through this far Jen. At the end of the day we can only do our best, & you have done that for Grim with outstanding devotion. He's a vey lucky bunny indeed.

From reading that I'm thinking I better not try it, what if it can't drain, that would make it worse.
I try to give pain relief as an when I think he needs it. When he's quiet or when his eyes are swollen. I think it's very important.

Jen, those are just my personal thoughts as a layman. Please discuss it with your vet. Your vet can give you a definative answer.

thumps_ said:

Jen, those are just my personal thoughts as a layman. Please discuss it with your vet. Your vet can give you a definative answer.

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I always do.

But experience is worth a lot as well. The advice given to me by you, Jane and so many others is invaluable and very much appreciated.