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View Full Version : the medicating stress is affecting his breathing..:(



purplebumble
22-03-2010, 03:20 AM
gods i really am in between a rock and a hard place with bertie right now.

he has about two or three days worth of the recent batch of baytril left...and rather than the one big dose once a day we split it to make it easier on him to swallow with his breathing probs.
The problem is no matter what i try to flavour it with he fights me with the baytril until hes so angry he attacks the syringe and i squirt it in quick.
he lovingly takes his metaclop and his metacam.

I really am stressing now...his breathing has improved a lot...but today hes breahting hard and rasping when he eats drinks or washes or gets stressed..which medicating him makes him.

the piriton i confess to wrapping in something sweet and he munches it no probs. but 2.2ml of baytril is hard to conceal!!

i want to check his toes to see how the sores are doing....if theyd cleared up enough hed be able to have steroids...if not then he couldnt.
would steroids work that well if its an upper resp problem..guess it would..like the asthma nebuliser at the docs...cept i also end up on steroid pills for days on end too.

hes washing and not rasping now..but when hes stressed out or sleeping...hes still noisy but his breathing is very hard and fast 24/7...guess thats the pasturella right?

i will ring the second vets up in morning..our vet aksed about bertie and i said hes on piriton again as it helped a fair bit last time. she said.....ive never heard of that an di would never have thought of using piriton on rabbits.
makes me kinda uncomfortable.....ellen is our sual vet closer to me...but emergencys etc meant having to get a taxi to the hospital each time at about 40 taxi fare there and back.
so we agreed id register with claire at the other vets further than ellen but not as far as the hospital!

im impressed with claire at the back up vets and have been keeping the continuity with her.

berties metacam has run out...i had no idea. and i dont know who will give me a repeat for him...ellen or claire...

whoever i talk to i cannot take him to the vets..he gets so breahtless when hes stressed and taking him to the othert end of the lounge affects him now.

luckily his lungs are clear. if the extra baytril hasnt cleared it then ts not an infection..the piriton helped it to a degree so its gotta be inflamamtion..

but the morte meds i give the more hes going to stress...viscious circle
anyone able to pass on advice?

Gemmapookie
22-03-2010, 09:04 AM
Hiya,
No advise on this Im afraid as I've never experienced this with any of my buns. I'd definatly call your original vet as she knows Berties history and sounds a little more rabbit savvy.
Sending get well and calm down vibes to Bertie
xxx

Gem
22-03-2010, 02:32 PM
Personally, I'd say Claire is the better one to ring and have a chat with.

Bertie eats pretty much anything doesn't he? Have you ever tried him with porridge? You could put all his meds in that eliminating the need to pick him up

OriginalFlintstone
22-03-2010, 02:36 PM
My rabbit Moo is on Baytril for chest probs and she's not used to be handled much yet and has been getting incredibly stressed when I try and give baytril orally. I've been squirting it onto a small handfull of pellets, which she eats straightaway, then I put her bisolvon on another handful of pellets and she eats them, then she gets a bowl of veg for being an angel!! Don't know if trying that will help for your bunny?

Bella&Muffins mummy
22-03-2010, 03:25 PM
My rabbit started with respiratory problems about 3 wks ago and she stopped eating for around 5 days, I was syringe feeding her recovery which is awful to get in to them. I went to a different vets with a rabbit specialist and she has been brilliant, Bella did have to have an antibiotic injection every day tho for about a wk as well as me giving her metacam and zantac ( the other vets gave me baytril too but Trudie took her off that ) after a wk or so she went on to a penicillin injection every other day which Trudie taught us how to do ourselves at home, she will then go on to a 1 a wk injection when she picks up some more. also while she wasn't eating she gave us critical care which is alot easier to syringe feed than recovery. the vet put her on a nebuliser a few times and it helped so much I bought one for home which I put her on for 1/2 hr twice a day using f10 antibiotic solution and water ( dilution 4ml f10 to 500ml ) water. when she's been on it she snots alot which is good cos it's coming out of her, I really have to keep her nostrils clean too and soak all the crust off them to help her breathe more easily, I do this with tepid weak salt water ( she likes to lick my fingers while i'm doing this ) she's eating lots of veg too now so i've stopped syringe feeding her.

I thought I was going to lose her the other wk the way she was gasping but to look at her now she seems like a different rabbit.

Good luck and if you need to know anything else just drop me a line xxxxx :love:

Bella&Muffins mummy
22-03-2010, 03:51 PM
When Bella gets stressed her rasping gets worse too but the nebuliser really soothes and calms them as it improves their breathing when they're in the box and she really chills out and just stretches right out in the box, ( they generally sit with their heads right nxt to the stream of vapour too, it must give them alot of relief ) xx;)

Bella&Muffins mummy
23-03-2010, 12:21 PM
Hey, hows Bertie?? good I hope xx :rabbit2:

purplebumble
23-03-2010, 01:48 PM
wow!! thank you all for your advice and the explanations via history of bella and moo:wave:

gemmapookie thank you for the vibes xx

gem..oh hun i rang up and claires away till april 6th:shock::cry:

ive rung up our usual vets to ask for more metacam and metaclopramide syrup.

hes got todays worth of baytril...yesterday we added some innocent smoothie..strawb and banana and he took it:shock: ive tried lots of stuff and hes always gone bleuch..so there you go folks...innocent smoothies..strawb and banana up to 2ml to 2.2ml baytril..nom nom says bertie!

hes run out of metacam so i borrowed some of salem kittys whos vet is away for anohter week:( and he needs help again:roll:

few days worth of piriton left.....my usual vet said nebulkising him would him would be so hard cos of his size and hed get very stresed anyway.

wonder what claire would say.

claire said hes been to the vets so close together with his foot and breathing probs after that that he should stay at home as much as poss as the stress is really affecting him.

no discharge since that snot back in january...his sense of smell is fine...have to hide eating anything he fancies!!:lol: ie cadburys double decker....sandwhiches..toast...ie anything you have he has to have a sniff then tries to run off with it no matter what it is just to make you chase4 him:lol::lol: hes a cheeky boy.:love:

hes following me into the kitchen..down the hall to the loo....:oops: hes in a happy mood this morning.no gurgling guts all day and night....and hes very cheeky this morning...

OriginalFlintstone
23-03-2010, 01:52 PM
Awww I love it when poorly bunnies start getting back to normal!! Go Bertie! :D

purplebumble
23-03-2010, 06:42 PM
now we have gi probs so hes already on metaclop syrup twice daily....looks like were going to have to force feed him critical care..and make him worse again...gods i cant win.

hes been asleep a fair while......had a few nibbles on hay and pellets and left 9 poos and two really teeny weird ones too.

im going into our local vets to pick up his metacam and metaclop and buy a bag of cc.

vibes for my stud muffin please......hes far too sexy for his fur which is covered in ear drops eye drops dried up baytril etc. doesnt do much for his look he says.

abbymarysmokey
23-03-2010, 06:52 PM
Can you give us a full run-down on Bertie's condition? I seem to remember it was something to do with Staph A, but were there other issues too?

You could try mixing the baytril with something sweet like ribena, but it would double the amount you need to give...alternatively you could try sub-cut baytril instead?

Also, this might be a daft question...but why baytril if it doesn't seem to be helping him?

purplebumble
23-03-2010, 07:22 PM
:wave: he had the snuffles and sneezing lots and a huge lump of white snot appear. the next day he went for nasal swabs..the day the heavy snow began to fall!!
the results came back that baytril was efective in his case..but the mrsa colonization in his nose is prob still there.

he then saw a diff vet who prescribed piriton and metacam for him. eventually the piriton helped a lot..the sneezing is very rare these days..luckily.
however he got very aggressive and as an emergency because of the sore lump underhis toe suspected abscess he went to the other vet yet again. they said if it was an abscess they could ampoutate his toe then and there.
the vet saw him and he it was both toes infected!!
she prescribed baytril and i had to take him back as i wasnt happy
after advice on here. so i took him a day or so later...i saw a diff vet..the bunny one there and she got a lady/nurse/receptionist to hold him up under his armpits to leave her able to see his feet. she really squeezed em to see if the pus was worse or responding..but she was stunned to see his toes were actually responding to the baytril!! surprised us both!!
i was supposed to see her a week later to check up on him...
but after his visit he began to have breathing probs but he always gets like it when stressed even before the pasturella.
but it got worse so i took him inot claire again and said the strong perfume thelady had been wearing was still on his fur and i was allergic to him let alone him and being held up like that had done something to him.

i said its not on his chest or in his nose..its his upper airways.
she confirmed that and prescribed piriton again and some more baytril in case it was an infection as hed been responding to baytril before.
they do injectable penicillin etc there too..whereas my normal vet doesnt..or uses piriton!

i rang to update claire but shes away till 6th april:shock::shock:

i rang our vets to ask for more metacaam and metaclop syrup. im picking it u:shock: in the morning with my mum as were going to lidl next door after:oops:
i am going to have to sdtart syringe feeding him again with critical care with a sachet of biolapis in it. the tubes of fibrepllex weve bought have all been faulty from online or the vets!!
i had stopped his ear drops the last few days but him shaking his ears has made him wheezy.
force feeding him also has the same effect!! and medicating him.

i tried ribena..he hated it but he doesnt mind innocent smoothie strawb and banana. but his last dose today be twigged it was baytril and fought it!

nothing is being givenm for his staph as its not causing the problem all the vets weve seen have said.

ooh hes done 19 more poops..go bertie!!

Bella&Muffins mummy
23-03-2010, 07:26 PM
I'm going to see Trudie on Fri (Rabbit specialist) she took Bella off Baytrill straight away, i'll ask her why.

I think Zantac is useful where stasis is concerned, Trudies opinion of Fibreplex isn't a good one, so I think this is why she put her on Zantac.

Bella was doing the little tiny hard poos too for quite a while but they're almost back to normal now.

I can't imagine why he would get stressed by nebulising just because he's bigger, some people use a mask for buns which I can imagine would be quite stressful but I just pop bella in a big clear storage box with a towel in the bottom and tape the nebuliser pipe in to the box and loosley put the lid on, she really relaxes but Trudie said we could even do it in her cary case which we did at first. We just popped a towel over it to cover the holes at the sides and she was fine with that too so if he has a cage or a box that he generally goes in anyway, I can't see why he'd be too stressed.

Need to give Bella her penicillin jab tonight too, well my OH does as I can't stand the damn things, I can't even look, I just hold her steady and look away. She is sooooo good, nothing seems to phase her, she's super brave (although she draws a line at having her nose cleaned and hides her head in my hand while i'm tring to do it!)

Sending loads of get well vibes xxx :love:

abbymarysmokey
23-03-2010, 07:42 PM
My vet has told me that virtually every single swab from a rabbit that they've sent to the lab has shown sensitivity to baytril, but in her experience baytril rarely cures URI or abscesses (think she was talking about facial abscesses though, which are a whole different kettle-of-fish to those elsewhere on the body).

I *think* it's perhaps something to do with the thick consistency of rabbit pus, which baytril doesn't penetrate adequately.

It's difficult for us to give advice, because there may be reasons why your vet doesn't want to try other antibiotics. Personally I'd be asking about a different antibiotic for the URI because the longer it goes on for, the less chance there is of it being completely cured.

purplebumble
23-03-2010, 07:44 PM
what drugs are in the nebuliser?

i was told by ellen to take him into the shower room when its major steamy.

fitting him in a box isnt as easy as you think..hes not the biggest frenchie but hes almost 6kg!!
picking him up or him jumping makes him so bad.

our vet just wants to send him to andover to john chitty for xrays and a sinus flush .

claire was considering the specilaist vets for an endoscopy to see hwats causing the problem..but it all means a GA and in his state he has little chance of surviving that.

all because he is responding with his feet baytril it is and the swab said it was responsive to it.

i give up i really do.......im leaving him at home but he needs to see a vet who will consider him completely.
im dreading warmer weather..he has enough probloems let alone this in the heat:(

why am i never advised abouyt where to buy nebulisers and the emds etc....:( i bring it up and get the vets narked.

i am over sensitive right now but im going to see if i can sneak a word with ellen.
she doesnt go by giving zantac..neihter does claire. but a guy from the bognor branch does. sigh...gota move there then to get the treatment bertie neds?!!

abbymarysmokey
23-03-2010, 07:49 PM
If you want a treatment like Zantac, just ask for it...I do! :wave:

Obviously some meds are potentially dangerous, so should be prescribed with caution, but zantac is pretty safe. If your vet is already using metaclop, she can't suspect a blockage, and metaclop and zantac are perfectly safe when given together AFAIK.

Gem
23-03-2010, 08:48 PM
Nicki is good like Claire, so if he needs to see someone I'd see her.

I didn't know Claire was away! Better tell my lot that they can't get poorly for a while!!:lol:

Bella&Muffins mummy
23-03-2010, 10:19 PM
It really is terrible when you don't get the info you need from a vet, that's why I had to change and I couldn't hope for a better one.

I really do sympathise with you!!

I bought my nebulizer from Amazon for 37 brand new and the stuff I was advised to use is called F10 antiseptic solution. I bought mine from Daves Falconry supplies but he didn't have the 100ml bottle which is around 8 so I bought the bigger one.

To have my bunny on a nebuliser for half an hr costs 13 so if you think of it that way, it pays for itself in 5 sessions.

If you have a walk in cage or box that would be ideal, if it has holes cover it over with a towel to keep the vapour in.

If you do decide to go ahead with it then I would recommend you ask your nice vet! See what she says about it and if you need anymore info or even pics just ask.

Good luck huni buni x ;)