Buuny not well - advice please

Hi

I have a pair of rabbits. Clover the buck, seemed a bit underweight when we got it several weeks ago but put on wieght straight away and seemed healthy apart from a runny eye.The vet said it was probably a blocked tear duct. This has actually cleared up the last few days.

Clover is the friendly one who will let us pick him up and stroke him.

well, the last few days we thought he was losing weight. He seemed to be eating fine, so we thought it was probably fine and we would watch. But today he is much skinnier than yesterday, its like his weight has just dropped off. He didn't coming running down to open the door when we unlocked the hutch this morning and wasn't as fussed about eating as the doe, which is unusual. Unfortunately we had relatives visiting from a long distance away, so i knew i couldn;t get him to the vets, so i made an appointment for tommorw as i know he is not himself.

Then, when we went out to play with them later, he just kept sititng next to us like he wanted to be picked up. He is definitely unwell. He is usually running around, but is obviously feeling lethargic. Usually he is happy to be held, but will get wriggly after a while and want to be put down, but he would have been happy to stay being held all day i think. His eys don't look as bright as usual. i have checked around his bum and can't see anything to worry about. His gums don't look pale or blue (vet clinic said to check).

Lavender the doe, seems fine. She is territorial, so will spend a lot of time sitting in litter trays etc, but to se Clover sitting still is very strange.

I have already made an appointment for tomorrow morning.

I have just put him away so he can have a sleep as my toddler was fussing and over due a nap and i have realised (poor neglected thing!) that she has a rash all over her truck. She has had a cough and cold for a week but this is new. I don't drive and my husband wont be home from work until about 10.30. So, if i have to go to the emergency vet, i would have to take both kids and rabbits in a cab. Obviously, the toddler is probably going to be feeling more unwell once she wakes up.

So, i know i was wondering if anyone could give me some advice about how serious it might be for the rabbit as obviously i would like to avoid having to take the rabbit to an emergency vet with an unwell toddler. Do you think it will be Ok to wait until tomorrow? What sort of symptoms shall i look for to know if he is getting worse? Any ideas what the problem could be? He had had one vaccination when we got him and we had the other one done at the vet.

My mum who came to visit (without me knowing) filled up the rabbits bowl with new dried food (not their usual one) which she brought with her and stuck another water bottle on the hutch which she had been given. Now, the rabbit who this came from had fly strike. I know that fly strike is flies laying eggs around the bottom, but is it possible that the old bottle could have had some germs on it from teh other rabbit? I am guessing that the new dried food wouldn't have caused that much or a problem, he probably didn't have any anyway, though Lavender would ahve eaten it.

The other thing is, what about human and rabbits passing on illnesses? can this happen?

Thanks
Lynsey

Hi

Just checked on Clover again. he is upstairs in the living area and is still 'depressed' and he didn't come to greet us, but we managed to encourage him over to the front and he did eat a dried carrot snack but refused any other dried food of fresh food. I am not sure if he has had much to drink, so i put a bit of water around his mouth with my fingers, not sure if much went in. His ears came up and he looked a bit more perky when eating his snack. but then he went to the back again and still not playing with the other rabbit.

Lynsey

Hi, if he is not drinking or eating I would get him to the vet tonight as tommorrow might be too late. Is he pooping?

Hi

its hard to know how much hay they are having anyway and he has never been a hay lover. He did have a bit of cabbage this morning but was not his usual greedy self. later when the rabbits were out on the lawn, I left the kids and visitors outside for a bit whilst i did lunch and things and when i came out he wasn't much interested in the grass. i am not sure if he had any before i came out. But i could see he was not himself and was lethargic and his ears were down like he was going to go to sleep and it is unusual for him to want to rest that much when out, he usually plays whilst out and has a nap when we make him go back in the hutch/run. i left him to have a rest in the hutch and now I have just got him to eat a couple of dried carrot food snacks and a bit of apple which i had dipped in water. i thought it would be good to get him to eat something wet in case he is a bit dehydrated. I had to lock the other rabbit out to stop her nicking it, because he was eating it much slower than usual. He isn't hot and there is no discharge from anywhere (though eyes don't look as bright as usual). His friend has come up now and they are cuddled up and they usually rest at this time for a few hours.

There was a bit off poo upstairs, so i think this must have been him .

Extra bad luck is that we were still hunting around for insurance! I am guessing that out of hours clinic costs a lot more? Do vets often take installments if you don't have the full money up front?

When i phoned the vets and explained the symptoms, they didn't say i should bring him in tonight, just keep an eye on him and i have an appointment for tomorrow and to look out for fly strike and limpness and white/blue gums. I wouldn't say he is limp and floppy, just lethargic and sitting down and looks like he is feeling sorry for himself. I am going to keep checking him and if he gets any worse, i will phone the out of hours vet number. i definitely want to avoid taking him myself over the next couple of hours as i have to consider my youngest who is currently havinga long nap and is also unwell and she cannot be left with anyone and i have no-one who can take the rabbits for me. But obviously i want the rabbit to be OK. They usually come down in their run about 10pm, and that is about the time my husband gets home, so he could take the rabbit then if there is no improvement. So i think i will just check every half hour to make sure things haven't got worse and if about the same, we can phone the vet for further advice and hubby can take him in if need be.

if the vets says its still OK to just come in the morning, should i worry about him getting cold at night? Should i bring him in? I am not quite sure how i would organise that and there is no way his friend would be happy to come in. I guess i could shut off the door from the upstairs bit to the secure run which i usually leave open so they can play at night - to keep him extra warm(?)

Hi
If he has not eaten much all day I would take him to the vet asap. Meanwhile you can try the following to help him:

• Bring him in and keep him warm - use a heat pad or a hot water bottle wrapped in a towel.
• Try to get him to take some more fluid - try putting some water in a bowl with a dash of boiling to make it "luke warm", they sometimes prefer it out of a bowl. You could also try syringing some gently.
• Do you have any fresh pineapple? If you do, you could squeeze some of that into juice and add it to the water to tempt him to drink or give it "straight".
• Try to tempt him with any veg you have and any herbs.
• You could also try to mush up some of his pellets with warm water and leave to cool to see if that would tempt him.
• Also get him to move around as they may help keep/start his guts moving.
• You can also give him some gentle tummy rubs.

Make sure you monitor his eating and if he is pooping so you can let your vet know - even take a sample with you as they can tell a lot from them (I do )

As he does not eat much hay (one of mine doesn't either :roll it could be his teeth so make sure the vet checks them out. He may also need a gut stimulant to help keep things moving.

I hope he starts to improve for you soon. Sending him some eating and pooping vibes.

Hi there

We have brought him inside as he seems much better when he knows we are looking after him. I didn't want to seperate him from lavender, but there is no way she would cope with coming in with us (much less tame). He was moving his head around and looking a bit more perky so we put him on the patio as Lavender was running round and he just sat there hunched up and didn't move even when she nudged him and looked really stiff like he was feeling cold. I had toddler with temperature in one arm and Clover in the other and my other daughter sorted out a box and towel and has him next to her. Bless him, he is just sitting still in the box in our lounge, but he is responding (obviously not as usual) when we give him attention. He is eating chopped up apple. the vet line suggested liquidising carrot with water and he has had a small bit of that. We will keep trying to feed him up. Luckily the toddler is a bit better, so we are going to pick clover up and give him a cuddle now and try and get him moving a little. He definitely hasn't passed any poo since we brought him in about 1 1/2 hr ago.

A couple of weeks back i was posting because his poos were soft and stringy and they were not eating their other type of poo and leaving a big mess, people thought it was because he was not having enough hay and because i had introduced grass too quick. I cut down on grass and pellets for a few days and it improved. I have introduced more time on the grass again and poos seemed fine for last couple of weeks. But i wonder if he hasn't been passing poos much for a while, you don't know when you have 2 and he isn't as well litter trained as the other, so you don't see him sitting doing poos as much.

His top teeth look longish and rest over the bottom teeth. i am not sure what is normal. He saw the vet last month and he said all was fine. He also has a slightly deformed lip (looks like an injury from another rabbit before we got him)where he must have had a split lip (rescue place hadn't noticed, we noticed once we got him home). It didn't seem to cause him any problems at the time and the vet said it seemed fine. they certainly don;t look like photos i have seen on teh internet of overgrown teeth - but i guess they would be worst example.

neither of the rabbits gnaw that much. They have the odd crazy moment when they grab something they would normally ignore and bite and toss it about! but they ignore their willow sticks and balls etc.

I remember someone saying to me that you should always take both rabbits to the vet if they are bonded and i expected to do that, but as it is only clover who is unwell and its an emergency out of hours appointment, i am not sure i should and I know Lavender will get stressed.
Phoned the emergency 'Vets now' and we will phone them again with an update when my husband gets home in an hour and a bit and he can take him in. Sounds awful, but we are dreading the costs too as we haven't got insurance yet and have heard horror stories about vet costs.

a spot of apple juice in the water bowl sometimes encourages buns to drink I believe?
I hope your toddler and your bun get well soon.

With regard contagion I think most things are species specific-ie they cannot be passed from one species(eg rabbits) to another(eg humans) or vice versa. There are some rare exceptions like psitticosis in parrots but generally it should not be a problem.

I agree with bunny babe's advice. Though I would say take care not to over heat him when using a hot water bottle in a towel. If he is dehydrated he may become moreso if he overheats. Think of the temperature you would want for your toddler and gauge the hot water bottle by that. If its too hot for your toddler -i i think it would be too hot for bun. Feel the buns ears they usually feel just slightly warm- if they feel very cold the bun is probably cold and likewise if the ears are very hot then bun is probably hot. -Sue:wave:

oh good -glad todddler and bun both perking up

I think the advice that bunny babe has given is spot on. Check your buns temperature as soon as possible and if he feels cold you need to get his temperature up & get him to the vets asap. When bunnys are in pain and/or go into shock their body temp can drop. If his temperature drops too low it will decrease his chances by the time he sees the vet. He sounds very poorly.

Vibes for bun hope will be ok.

The out of hours vetinary nurses usually say keep an eye try give fluids and come in in the morning. But if you want to take bun in then just say I am coming in, please call the vet.


Any new food needs to be introduced slowly as can cause upset.

Bunnie had a bit of cauliflower once for the first time and she had a little bit too much - she ended up in hospital for 3 days as she went into GI Stasis, were almost lost her


I hope he is ok and you Paws crossed the problem is minor and can be treated.

I find I can tempt mine with grated carrot too sometimes.

My emergency vet charges about £40 for consultation but I know that some are a dearer than this. Where I take mine is an emergency 24hr hospital so I don't know if you have any near to you that may be cheaper than a call out fee for a vet. The meds are usually reasonable £5-£10.

Hope he is feeling better now if he is a bit warmer and you have managed to get some fluids down.

Hi

He doesn't feel too hot or too cold but we put some background heating on. I had my daughter breastfeeding one side and clover cuddled on the other shoulder!

My husband should be arriving at the vets now. Not sure what we will do tonight (unless he stays at vets overnight), as he will need to stay inside and we don't have a cage or anything. He has been in a big box this evening and not well enough to try and get out, but if he perks up, i don't want him jumping out in the night. My husband will stay up and look after him once i go to bed and i guess Clover will be OK just for a couple of hours in the carrier if we have to find something secure so my husband can get a couple of hours rest.
For those of you who have rabbits outdoors, do you have an indoor cage for when they are unwell? What about if they are bonded? I feel bad seperating him from his friend, but obviously he needed special treatment.

OK, hubby just called and Clover has been given pain relief and anti-biotics. They say he is dehydrated and it is a big problem he is not going to the toilet but they don't know why and they have felt him over and haven't found a problem. Their advice is to keep trying to hydrate him and give lettuce or other green veg and mashed carrots and give lots of hay to help him go to the toiler. Now, i know he wont eat hay. Apparently they said '50/50'!

I don't feel that happy that that is all they can tell us. Does this sound right or should they be doing more to help him and find out what is wrong? I can't believe he has become ill so suddenly. He is such an amazing little rabbit and full of personality. I feel a bit annoyed that the local vet did not say we should come in today when i phoned after i first realised he was ill. Although it was bad luck too because my daughter came down so unwell soon after i called and then we had to wait for my husband to come home. So hard to juggle kids and pets in a situation like this.

Lynsey

Our vet would insist on keeping him in so can put in a drip or the nurses keep giving fluids etc

Plus don't feed lettuce, rabbits should not have lettuce.

With some vets you have to tell them what you want. Some think it's just a rabbit so lets see what happens.


Sending lots of vibes for you and bun x

Hi

I am kicking myself that we had not sorted the insurance out before this. The 5 weeks we have had them has just flown by and we were fussing over what insurance to get!

It was 99 pounds just for the call out tonight but luckily not much more for the medications. We just asked the emergency vets how much it would cost to come back for a drip and they said 500 pounds. I feel awful but we just don't have that up front. We are going to take him to the normal vets tomorrow. How much might it cost to stay in on a drip with a normal vets? I can't believe we are having to worry about paying for his care. We just had to pay out for emergency DIY on the overdraft and there is nothing left for really pricy vet care. Do vets ever agree to accept installments? is there anything out there to help people who don't have insurance to pay for sudden emergencies when they have just rehomed a rabbit? I would pay whatever we have, but i just don't have several hundred and i have no-one who could loan me that. I know they don't do it out the goodness of their hearts, but why does it need to cost 500 pound to put him on a drip?

The good news is that he is perking up a bit. He is eating a bit of mashed carrot and looking about more and we have forced water on him with a syringe and will be up looking after him all night. The other rabbit still seems fine. the vet said to keep them completely seperated. Does this sound like something that could pass onto the other rabbit?

My little girl(also unwell) has fallen asleep on my lap so we are going to see if Clover fancies a bit of a stretch.

We had that with bunny, no insurance then she went into Gi stasis.

It was on a sunday and cost £90 to get vet out to the hospital.

They put in a drip and gave, pain relief, antibiotics and gut stimulants. She was in for 3 days being nursed and it cost £150 odd all in. They only charged us £70 vet call out in the end.

£500 is shocking for a drip. Especially as they seem to not know how quickly a rabbit can go down hill, sounds like they are money orientated and flippent with rabbits and their health issues. I would phone around for a bun savvy vet, ask them questions like do they stock rabbit panacur and bio-lapis/critical care/ Avipro these are often given to rabbits not eating depending on the possible cause.

Definetly need to make sure bunny pooing as if not is is not a good sign.

You can still get both buns insured - pet plan is very good. When you know what is wrong with bun get the insurance abut the problem will be excluded.

Bunnie has an exclusion for Stasis for a year , if she remains clear and vet confirms then they will reconsider.

Could get other bun insured and then add this one to the policy at a later date.


Did the vet have a proper check of the teeth? It could be the bun has tooth problem and why not eating anthing like pellet or not eating hay at all now. They need to chew hay to grind teeth down as eating hay is a different chewing motion then eating pellet and other stuff.

If not a great hay eater, could have spurs causing sore mouth and hence loosing weight.

Keeping giving the fluids and making sure pooping and moving around as this stimulates the gut.

Could try a bowl of warm water, it may entice bun to drink on own accord aswell as the fluids you are giving and the warm water be good for the tum.

Ruling out the teeth as a cause is the No. 1 thing a vet should do!


Bunnie was not a good hay eater but we changed her hay to Timothy Hay and now she eats us out of house and home - her first sign of tummy problem coming is she cuts down on her hay eating so we know what is coming. Her teeth are perfect though!

If your buns are bonded should try keep them together.

Keep bun indoors so warm and can nurse and comfort. And bring bonded partner in too if possible.

Hi

There isn't that many vets in Derby which we were surprised about. There were only really 2 and even then not that close by. Then the 'vets now' acts as the out of hours emergency care and are actually based at the PDSA.

Just had another look at pet plan and it says they wont pay out if ill within 14 weeks of getting out the plan, so even if we had gone ahead with getting it, they wouldn't have paid.

Managed to get full details from hubby now. Apparently the emergency vet (not actually our day vet but part of the national 'Vets Now' after hours emergency care that the vet is signed up for) was very good and did a full check. Teeth and mouth fine. Main problem is that he is very dehydrated and he is underweight. I can't believe how quickly he has lost weight since yesterday and obviously dehydration make it look worse tonight and he is not pooing (still not pooed). He said not pooing could indicate a serious bacterial infection and he feels that not eating enough hay could have helped cause this. He also said that pellets can be too high in protein and cause problems with bacteria.

He has had lots of injections, saline,vetergesic, baytril and metocl'de. Not sure what is what but he had antibiotics and something to help him eat and go to the toilet. He apparently had the higest dose so should not be treated by the local vet until tomorrow evening.

This vet did seem to know how serious it was, i am annoyed that the local vet did not explain that it could be this serious when i said he was lethargic and not eating and suddenly lost weight. The person on the phone there just said look out for white/blue gums and fly strike as being serious and made an appointment for tomorrow. At that time, my daughter was ill but not as bad and we could have got a cab over there at the time.

The emergency vet has given us instructions about syringing water every hour and said as long as we get it in him, it would be the same as putting him on a drip and either way is 50/50. But he just isn't pooing still. He isn't eating the hay or dried grass which the vet said he really needs and he said not to gove any apple (which he was eating earlier) as it could make him constipated.

Theres no way we could bring Lavender in with him. Clover is literally in a big box tonight. He is the tame one, Lavender would not be happy inside and obviously would definitely not sit in a box and we don't have any rooms or anything they can have just for them. She must be stressed though. She seemed to be ignoring him a bit when he was unwell in the hutch though.

I just really hope he is OK. i cant believe we could lose him and i cant see it being easy to bond the other bunny with another rabbit as she is quite territorial. She isn't human orientated like clover either.
Lynsey

oh, and i meant to say regarding her bonded partner, the vet said definitely keep them completely seperated as he could be a risk to her.
Lynsey

Hi Lynsey,
I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Clover has a comfortable night & is able to find the strength to keep fighting. Vet fees are very expensive & if you don't have an insurance policy no amount of money seems enough in an emergency such as this. I lost one of my buns just over a week ago; he got sick so rapidly I didn't feel like I had an opportunity to plan any kind of intervention at home, we just had to rush him to the vets and that was it, it made me feel very helpless. Clover should be feeling much more comfortable now & am sure he is in the best of hands. I hope and pray the morning brings you some better news.xx

How is Clover today. Sounds like the vet gave the right meds. If no better, I would take Clover back to your own vet as he may need some more meds. Take the receipt with you so your vet knows what he has had.

£500 for rehydration :shock::shock: surely they got that wrong!

I hope he has improved though overnight. Sending him some vibes.

Hope you child is improving too.

Hi
Clover is very unwell. We stayed up and gave him fluids every hour but couldn't get any more food inside him. We took him ouyt briefly to see Lavender before taking him to the local vets. She tried nudging him but he just collapsed.
The vets phoned and said 'obviously he has been unwell and not eating for several weeks before you brought him in'. I was really annoyed by this and said that up until yesterday he had been eating rabbit food (same one he was used to before we got him), vegetables, grass and dried grass and the only thing we have not got him to eat is hay. He looked underweight when we got him 5 weeks ago but had put on weight and then suddenly lost it and only stopped eating yesterday morning (obviously may have been unwell over night too).
So then she said that he needed an anaesthetic as he clearly had dental and mouth problems. We brought him in about 3 weeks ago so i asked why that had not been picked up (it also wasn't picked up last night at the emergency clinic which we paid 100 just for the consult plus meds). She went off and then came back and said the vet said his dental problems would have started 2 weeks ago.
So the vet came to the phone and i asked why the dental problems were not picked up and he again said it coudl have happened since we brought him in. Well, when we brought him in, we pointed out that he had a split in him lip when we got him and asked for a mouth check. My guess is that Clover has been concealing mouth problems for longer than 2 weeks and it should have been picked up. We thought he was just being fussy about hay and as he was eating fresh grass and veg, dried grass and rabbit food, i was under the impression this was not ideal, but not somehting which would make him ill especially as wild rabbits live on grass.
I pointed out that he had been eating lots of grass, veg and some rabbit mix. The vet said that the problem this time of year is that the grass is wet and doesn't have enough nutritional value.
So, it looks like not eating hay has been more serious that we could have imagined. Maybe he wasn't always a rabbit that wasn't keen on hay like we guessed, but maybe the mouth problems have prevented him eating on hay.

The vet said that as he has not been eating nough hay, this is probably why he has the problem with his gut and bacteria. So obviously they will be looking at treating mouth and bacteria problem but looking for anything else once he is asleep.
They said that his only chance is an anaesthetic. I asked if they could do any more to make him better before risking an anaesthetic, but they said there would be no point. so he is next on the list.

Poor little boy, he had showed no indication of being unwell until yesterday and it looks like it is going to be too late to help him. Obviously the chances are slim that he will make it through the anaesthetic. So sad
Lynsey

Hoping for a miracle for little Clover x