Bonding two boys - both unneutered!

:? About says it all really...

I have a mini lop who is about 6 years old, and a big boy (don't know what breed he is but he's beautiful ) who will be around 2 now. Little one has bitten both me and my daughter, nothing serious but has drawn blood, and the big one loves kisses lol. I have a shed which is 6' x 4' so I'm planning to put them both in there with a gate in the middle so I can get to the second bunny! Both will have a cat flap (actually that's one cat and one small dog flap) and half a run each.

I thought by doing that they could see and smell each other but still be separate. Big one has poked his nose into the little ones hutch when I've let him out and didnt' get bitten so I'm cautiously optimistic. Anyone got any ideas of things I can do/avoid?

Im a bit confused....are you intending on them sharing a shed but living segregated or putting them together eventually?

Castrate them.

Without castrating them they'll constantly fight for dominance; blood will probably be a common occurrence. It'll also generally make them better pets, they won't spray, hump, aggressiveness will be reduced and it'll stop them getting reproductive cancers (bucks get them too!)

Definitely get them both neutered ... even if they're only going to see each other through mesh etc.

I'm a single mum and have taken these rabbits on anticipating getting them done, but things come up... At the moment I have a cat (uninsured of course!!) who has had an unexpected illness, overactive thyroid, so that plus my older cats £50 trip to the vets for a poorly foot have left me around £230 poorer, with more tests and operation/meds for life to cope with. I have three part time jobs and I'm still struggling, so it's not an option for now I'm afraid. Unless anyone knows of a charity that could help?

So my priority is to get them in a living accomodation that isn't falling apart (two old hutches they came with are home at the moment) and hoping they can learn to like each other. The shed came free so it seemed ideal, but then I started thinking about practicalities...

well PDSA or RSPCA will be able to help, but unfortunatly they will not tolerate each other until neutured. xxxxxxx

I agree with the others - if you can't afford to get them neutered at the moment please don't put them together, you will almost certainly end up with a serious fight and thus a large vets bill! I'd suggest sorting them out with some reasonable accommodation for now and aim to save up and get them neutered. You could then try and bond them several weeks after that (long enough for the hormones to drop off) but I really wouldn't advise it before.

i think i understand correctly but am going to summerise what i think is going on.... you have two rabbits who are both male. neither is neutered although this was the original plan. they are now living in a shared shed but are seperated by a gate or mesh of some kind. if they still have space enough for each which i would imagine they do i would leave them like this until they can be neutered... there is no harm in them being next to each other and will learn each others smells.(and can escape each other if want to). But if u intend on putting them where they are together (which again i imagine u will want to do at some point in life) then wait until they are neutered before doing this. if they run in house or garden i would ensure this is done seperatly or in seperate areas/runs.(this will stop a fight occouring).

Basically if they go together un neuterd they will 99% surely fight which will en in blood injury or death and each time will get worse... and wud increase ur financial problems. as long as both are happy wait till you can afford it...but by all means approach a charity if they can help all the better. I think once the aggressive biter has been neutered be it when u have the money then he should be less aggressive.... has he been worse since they have been together next to each other out of curiosity?

Rabbits that love each other can be together neutered or not….its already been done with two un neutered male rabbits. But rabbits don’t naturally like each other because of territory, so it masks the problem slightly by neutering. You could try them un natured but its very rare it works, it only works normally if they are family and been together since birth (like in the wild). But it has been done so it is possible.

blueboy said:

Rabbits that love each other can be together neutered or not….its already been done with two un neutered male rabbits.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't agree with this from personal experience; although of course I am not saying it hasn't been done. All my male sibling rabbits have had to be neutered at the earliest possible moment to prevent fighting and I wouldn't advise trying it as you will most probably end up with a hurt rabbit and hence incurring more vet bills.

chloaster said:

I wouldn't agree with this from personal experience; although of course I am not saying it hasn't been done. All my male sibling rabbits have had to be neutered at the earliest possible moment to prevent fighting and I wouldn't advise trying it as you will most probably end up with a hurt rabbit and hence incurring more vet bills.

Click to expand...

Had they been together since birth without any parting? In the wild this is how rabbits live together…as a family. It is rare but as I say, it has already been done. Someone I know from another forum has done it. There was no humping, fighting or dominance, they just lived together like two neutered rabbits would.

blueboy said:

Had they been together since birth without any parting? In the wild this is how rabbits live together…as a family. It is rare but as I say, it has already been done. Someone I know from another forum has done it. There was no humping, fighting or dominance, they just lived together like two neutered rabbits would.

Click to expand...

Yes, I adopted the four beetles from Kirkby at the age of 10weeks and they were starting to scrap when I got them done and three 5.5 month old lads came in just recently, they too had been together since birth, and I took them straight in as they were getting nasty towards each other. The neutering sorted both groups of boys out tho and they're happily living together now

blueboy said:

Rabbits that love each other can be together neutered or not….its already been done with two un neutered male rabbits. But rabbits don’t naturally like each other because of territory, so it masks the problem slightly by neutering. You could try them un natured but its very rare it works, it only works normally if they are family and been together since birth (like in the wild). But it has been done so it is possible.

Click to expand...

Every un-neutered male pair that has passed through this rescue has fought at some point. That includes siblings who have never been split.

One developed facial abcesses from his wounds, which is a serious condition in rabbits.

I would not contemplate bonding 2 un-neutered Bucks :shock:
Being a bonding wuss I would probably not even try if they were neutered
I do have Bucks who are brothers and have lived to gether since birth but they were all neutered as soon as their plums decended. I have found that the neutered Brothers (together since birth) actually got along much better than pairs of neutered Does (sisters, together since birth)

Janex

I don't attempt bonding rabbits together at all as I can't afford vet bills for abscesses and other possible wounds and infections - I think it's wise to avoid bonding and provide rabbits with neighbourly company if you really can't afford vet bills. Do make sure they can't bite noses through the wire though, as it's a common injury unless they are very friendly - I have a double layer of wire between Benny and Maa as he's a nose biter.

Oh goodness. Please dont attempt to bond them until they have both been neutered and the hormones have had a chance to die down. You could end up with paying a fortune in vets bills if they fight and do serious damage to each other.
Getting on through mesh is not the same because they still have their own territory which neither one is invading at present. It could go really wrong. Please hold off on putting them together until they are both deplummed!
x x

At a rescue there is the smell of other rabbits around am I correct in saying that? This isn’t going to help matters. I am not telling her to bond two un neutered bucks, all I am saying is it is possible if they are from the same litter and been together since birth. I have seen it. Both bucks together had not been neutered and where perfectly fine….no signs or fighting or bullying. But she had bred them herself and she really dose know what she is doing with rabbits. Are you 100% positive they where not separated at all at this rescue…its rare that rescues re home un neutered males together isn’t it.

I think as one is 2 and one is 6 and different breeds they have probably never been together.

blueboy said:

Had they been together since birth without any parting? In the wild this is how rabbits live together…as a family.

Click to expand...

Actually many of the young male offspring would be chased off to live apart from the main warren. In the wild there are very strict hierarchy's. These are set out by challenges, the lower ranking males would back off when challenged by the higher ranking males, if they don't display sufficient sub-ordinate behaviour the dominant male will assert his dominance by chasing them away. If they decide not to be chased away, and challenge for position, a fight develops with vicious jumps, kicks and bites. Until the loser runs and is chased away by the winner.

The trouble is, in pet situation there is very rarely enough space for the subordinate males to run/avoid the dominant male. If every time the dominant male turns around he find the sub-ordinate males less than 6' way he's going to take it as a challenge and fights frequently develop. After all, there just isn't the same amount of room even in a large shed as there is in a field. As the subordinate male can't run away - indicating the dominant male has won - the dominant male keeps attacking. Most pet owners also don't want to risk the injuries (potentially serious) while two rabbits work out who is boss in a confined area.

Neutering works because it removes the hormones that induce the males to compete for territory and breeding rights. Fun fact: the dominant male is the warren has the largest bits Even then your less likely to get a successful male-male match.

On the occasions it works it's likely because you've luckily picked either two sub-ordinate males without much interest in dominance or you've picked a dominant-subordinate pair and the dominant doesn't see the other as a threat.

blueboy said:

At a rescue there is the smell of other rabbits around am I correct in saying that? This isn’t going to help matters. I am not telling her to bond two un neutered bucks, all I am saying is it is possible if they are from the same litter and been together since birth. I have seen it. Both bucks together had not been neutered and where perfectly fine….no signs or fighting or bullying. But she had bred them herself and she really dose know what she is doing with rabbits. Are you 100% positive they where not separated at all at this rescue…its rare that rescues re home un neutered males together isn’t it.

Click to expand...

Do you think we are naive enough to attempt bonding around other rabbits? Thats why we emphasise the use of neutral territory.

The pairs we have come in (of un-neutered males) all show signs of fighting on arrival......sadly the owners never seem to have noticed these.