underweight 4 month old continental giant rabbit

I have just been given a 4 month old continental giant rabbit who is underweight. His previous owners didn't realize how much he would eat or how big he would grow and as such no longer want him. I have taken him to the vet and he is good medically speaking but needs to put on weight asap. The vet suggested I call some breeders to find out what they would recommend for bulking him up.
I spoke to a lovely man today who advised the following:

2 handfuls of rabbit royale
1 handful barley rings
1-2 slices of wholesale toast
2 carrots
6 spring green leaves or similar

2 times a day until he is 1 year old

My question is about the rabbit royale. I'm not really a fan of the muesli/forage style foods. Would this diet plan still be good if I swapped the rabbit royale for the science selective pellets I currently feed my other rabbit or am I best just to follow the whole menu as is?

Hello,

I can't see why it'd be wrong to change the pellets, assuming you still have him on what he was on when you got him? If so, you need to do a slow transition so you don't upset his tummy.

I personally would not feed the barley rings, carrots or toast. Carrots are rather high in sugar, so 4 carrots a day is far too much in my opinion! My rabbit doesn't even get carrots and he manages fine! I don't really know what barley rings are, but again a handful seems like quite a lot. Plus I would never feed a rabbit toast - I'm not sure if it's actually bad for them, but I just don't feel like they need it. They're a rabbit and are designed to eat rabbity stuff, like grass and hay and a small amount of pellets as well as some greens - not toast or commercialised treats. That's just my opinion though :lol:

My bunny has Fibafirst sticks and fenugreek crunchies, both of which contain fairly natural and healthy ingredients. That's all he gets in terms of treats, and they're not given in handfuls either. Plus they're good for keeping his teeth down!

Generally speaking, it's only advised to start introducing greens to bunnies at around 4 months old anyway. Again, 6 spring green leaves twice a day sounds a lot to me! I may be being a meanie to my boy :lol: but he doesn't get greens every day, and when he does he only gets a leaf once a day.

The most important thing is hay. It's vital in a rabbit's diet. How much hay does your rabbit eat?

Hi forgot to mention the hay. I never let the hay run out so never really count it in the meal plan.

The problem is that when I say we were given him I mean that we opened our door and were handed him. We weren't really given a choice as if we were not wanting him then he was going to be in their words, "set free", he was pretty much dumped on us. I don't know what he was eating before but it wasn't enough.

He has been with us 4 days now. The first thing we did was take him to the vets. You can count his ribs but otherwise he is ok.
The barley rings are actually for horses but I have heard of them being used for underweight rabbits before so that part made sense to me.
It is a lot of veg - our other rabbit only gets one carrot a week as a treat and 1 leaf at night ( also pellets and hay ) so I assumed it was to do with the fact that he is a giant and has a lot of growing to do.
I'd never heard of the toast thing either and questioned it but he definitely said wholemeal toast.

I wouldnt feed any of that personally!

I would establish him on a good quality pellet such as Science Selective - use the Junior version for now as it will help him gain weight.

Feed him pretty much ad-lib at first as he gains weight then slowly reign back. but do make sure he also eats hay. If he stops eating hay then cut back on the pellets a bit.

Also get a good quality hay for him - alfalfa hay can help put on weight - but also get just tons of a good quality meadow hay so he always has something to munch on.

Re veg - I only feed forage not shop bought veg but if you feed shop bought make sure it does not come in plastic bags. Do not feed that amount of carrots - he will get bad teeth and flab - instead of healthy growth. Use spring greens, savoy cabbage, fresh (not plastic bagged or dried) herbs etc BUT be very wary about adding too much at once - he may not be used to it and at 4 months he may get an upset stomach.

Some of his lack of weight may also be lack of muscle tone so lots of lovely space for exercise.

Breeders are usually looking for a lot of weight or bulk for their nursing does and that would be totally inappropriate for this young rabbit. In fact the diet he suggested would also be totally inappropriate for ANY rabbit!!!

PS for a vet to suggest you ring a breeder for dietary advice also rings alarm bells about the skills of the vet - many rabbits are not at all knowledgeable about rabbits and I suggest you start a new thread entitled RABBIT SAVY VET NEEDED near XX (xx being where you live). You will need one for the neutering etc eventually as well as advice on health and diet.

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If you're looking for a good pelleted food I'd suggest allen and page Breeder and Grower. My current french lop really struggles to keep weight on so I switched him on to it after being recommended on here. He's improved no end - a really good weight and his coat is looking much better too. I think he has about twice the recommended amount (recommend amount being 1 egg cup full for each 1kg of bodyweight).

I would avoid the barley rings, I've hard them recommended often and have fed them myself in the past but there was an article a while ago in one of the rabbit publications that linked them with gut problems. I heard about it on here so I'm not sure how true it is but I've always felt it best to err on the side of caution.
2-4 slices of toast a day sounds like a really bad idea to me. I've heard of small pieces being given to administer meds but I wouldn't have thought it's doing them any good.
As said before, carrots are high in sugar so should only be fed in small quantities.
Leafy green veg is a great part of a rabbits' diet

I agree that the toast and carrots are a reeaaalllyyyy really bad idea!

I am not sure about barley rings but have heard bad things in the past so would avoid personally.

I would reccomend getting him on a balanced hard feed, rabbit royale is fine as long as he doesn't selective feed (ie only eat his fave bits) as if he does that he won't be getting a balanced diet. I feed science selective, excel is also good as is allen and page. The two handfuls sounds about right for a conti.

I would then feed unlimited hay and some veggies such as spring greens or even fresh forage when it is available.

It would be best for him to put the weight on slowly and getting him on a healthy diet will do that, if you want to give him a helping hand early on you could feed some alfalfa hay as a treat hay as it has a higher protein content and it good for fattening up buns. You could also offer porridge oats either soaked in water or just dry with his food. Only feed them in small amounts though, they are fattening and if fed dry will swell slightly after he has eaten them, which is fine as long as he isn't allowed to gorge himself on them. I'd maybe feed a teaspoon a day for a few weeks til he is a bit bulkier.

Good luck! Contis are awesome

I also agree that the suggestions aren't a great idea. However, I am about to say something controversial - toast. A very rabbit savvy vet suggested very burnt toast to me for a very Ill bun (turned out to be cancer) who was unable to tolerate several foods and was shedding weight. It stabilised him and he lived, relatively well, for 12 months or so. It made everyone laugh that he had toast for breakfast! So, to that end, it isn't "harmful", just a last resort. However, it doesn't sound to me like you need a last resort.

Given your conti is only 4 months, he/she will be growing rapidly. As I recall Hector from that stage, he had periods of looking scrawny with a bald patch of fur behind his ears such was the rate of growth :shock: I'd agree with SS pellets and junior ones too with extra hay and even some forage if you can get hold of some.

Contis are lovely, very loving and all action. You'll have your hands full but it is so worth it.

We need photos.....


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Thank you all for your support,
The vet we visited with him was a new practice which opened and had sent us a voucher for a free health check. We will not be using them again. Our usual vet has always been wonderful with our rabbits in the past so we will probably take baby rabbit to see her and get her opinion.

How does the following sound:

Hay- woodlands natural compressed hay Fed freely + extra alfalfa hay to bulk up
Pellets- ss adult untill I can buy him some ss junior. Slowly increasing untill it's Fed freely as directed by the bag. If he still struggles then I will look into the breeder and grower pellets suggested.
Greens- rabbit edibles from garden and veg patch given at night after I know enough hay etc been eaten that day
Carrots etc- once a week like mia
I will also try the porridge oats to try and get him to a healthy weight

Housing- he is in the house at the moment as we were not expecting him. Cat is not a problem as they appear to have bonded, they sleep curled up around each other and groom each other! I never leave them alone together but it is very bizzare. Our joiner is returning in two weeks to put up another shed / run combo so that he will have a permanent home - I'm sure he would make a great house rabbit but it's really not my thing. He will have daily access to a large garden during the day and we will hopefully bond him with mia in the summer.

Will try to get some pics taken once we know his previous owners can't change their minds. They paid nearly £70 for him less than 3 weeks ago but they handed over his paperwork with him so I'm not sure if they are able to... he really is better with us anyway. What kind of person wants to "set a rabbit free" ... in the middle of January... and he's a baby...
Once we know they can't take him back we will have to name him too. I'm thinking Paddington might be appropriate, even if he didn't even have a suitcase or belongings.

I would stay away from breeders for advice, there might be the odd one with good knowledge but you'll also find a lot that are still working to what was considered ideal 20-30 years ago. Plus they often have different goals to pet owners.

It's really tempting to put weight back on a rabbit asap, but if you do it quick, what you are putting on is fat. Whereas, it's likely that a lot of what your rabbit is missing is muscle mass which takes more time and some exercise to put back on.

I would feed fairly normally (hay/pellets/veggies), and just tweak slightly - so feeding a few extra pellets and mixing in a version aimed at junior or pregnant rabbits which will be higher calorie. You could also add a few porridge/rolled oats. Mix in alfalfa with his hay - you can also get this as cakes/cubes.

The other thing you don't want to do is train him to want to eat a lot of tasty, high fat foods that aren't good for him, otherwise once he's plump you may end up with a problem getting him to eat normal foods

Aww - a conti - lucky you

When we re-homed Lenny he was very skinny and obviously destined to be a big bunny - I changed him over to SS Junior and he had unlimited amounts of those, plus Alfalfa hay - and healthy treats. As has been mentioned - you need to build up muscle mass, as opposed to fat mass - and you don't want him putting on weight too quickly either. Lenny slowly but surely gained weight - and now he is a year old he's eating adult SS (which he has for a while now) but limited amounts - and normal timothy hay.

I am so pleased you gave your bun a home - people are so flippin cruel sometimes :evil:

Great advice preiously given (but don't understand why you shouldn't buy Greens in plastic bags)? I can't buy it any other way. Also, don't forget, if he gets used to being indoors, he won't be able to go outside until it warms up. Do you know where he was living in his previous home?

No idea if he was inside or outside before. It was a bit of a dump and run scenario. We are known as the crazy rabbit people in our village because we have a separate rabbit garden and house them in sheds rather than hutches so I think that's why they knocked on our door.
We have him inside because we have nowhere else to put him but we have been taking him out to the rabbit garden for an hour or two each day (mia needs it the rest of the time.) His shed will be insulated when it is built, I bought far too much for mias shed so have plenty left over. I think he will need to stay inside until he bulks up slightly anyway, there's nothing on him to keep him warm.
I never realised about plastic packaging either. I always assumed that it was ok as long as you washed the veg.

I should think the bags are fine as long as it's rinsed. Some of them are rinsed in weird things to kill stray bugs, but they usually say wash before eating on the bag if that's the case.

parsnipbun said:

I wouldnt feed any of that personally!

I would establish him on a good quality pellet such as Science Selective - use the Junior version for now as it will help him gain weight.

Feed him pretty much ad-lib at first as he gains weight then slowly reign back. but do make sure he also eats hay. If he stops eating hay then cut back on the pellets a bit.

Also get a good quality hay for him - alfalfa hay can help put on weight - but also get just tons of a good quality meadow hay so he always has something to munch on.

Re veg - I only feed forage not shop bought veg but if you feed shop bought make sure it does not come in plastic bags. Do not feed that amount of carrots - he will get bad teeth and flab - instead of healthy growth. Use spring greens, savoy cabbage, fresh (not plastic bagged or dried) herbs etc BUT be very wary about adding too much at once - he may not be used to it and at 4 months he may get an upset stomach.

Some of his lack of weight may also be lack of muscle tone so lots of lovely space for exercise.

Breeders are usually looking for a lot of weight or bulk for their nursing does and that would be totally inappropriate for this young rabbit. In fact the diet he suggested would also be totally inappropriate for ANY rabbit!!!

PS for a vet to suggest you ring a breeder for dietary advice also rings alarm bells about the skills of the vet - many rabbits are not at all knowledgeable about rabbits and I suggest you start a new thread entitled RABBIT SAVY VET NEEDED near XX (xx being where you live). You will need one for the neutering etc eventually as well as advice on health and diet.

.

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On the contrary, I think rabbits are the ultimate experts on themselves :lol:

tonibun said:

Great advice preiously given (but don't understand why you shouldn't buy Greens in plastic bags)? I can't buy it any other way. Also, don't forget, if he gets used to being indoors, he won't be able to go outside until it warms up. Do you know where he was living in his previous home?

Click to expand...

The ones in sealed plastic bags (such as herbs for example) are not just in air - they have additional preserving things added. I have ben warned by my vet about them and on the very rare occasions I used to get them I had problems twice associated with them. Supermarkets all have the options of non sealed bag vegetables - as do markets of course!

I meant rabbit vets

Tamsin said:

I would stay away from breeders for advice, there might be the odd one with good knowledge but you'll also find a lot that are still working to what was considered ideal 20-30 years ago. Plus they often have different goals to pet owners.

It's really tempting to put weight back on a rabbit asap, but if you do it quick, what you are putting on is fat. Whereas, it's likely that a lot of what your rabbit is missing is muscle mass which takes more time and some exercise to put back on.

I would feed fairly normally (hay/pellets/veggies), and just tweak slightly - so feeding a few extra pellets and mixing in a version aimed at junior or pregnant rabbits which will be higher calorie. You could also add a few porridge/rolled oats. Mix in alfalfa with his hay - you can also get this as cakes/cubes.

The other thing you don't want to do is train him to want to eat a lot of tasty, high fat foods that aren't good for him, otherwise once he's plump you may end up with a problem getting him to eat normal foods

Click to expand...

^^This!

When I took on Ernest he was on death's door and all his siblings had died, we think of malnutrition/hypothermia. He weighed 800g at 4 months old - his older siblings weighed about 1.3kg at the same age, so he was at least 50% under body weight. I didn't feed him anything different to a normal bunny diet - I just fed it slightly more often, so he was getting his normal 2 'meals' a day but then pretty much every time I walked past I'd give him a hawthorn stick or some willow or a piece of fibafirst, and of course ad lib hay which he munched on pretty much constantly. He just had normal SS as that's what I had available and he gained weight fine with those.

He put on the weight really quickly without the need for additional fattening foods - so well that within 3 weeks he went to see a different vet in his foster home and he was considered well enough to be vaccinated and the vet said he would never have known. Obviously with a giant the quantities would need to be upped, but I think the principle is the same. If their body hasn't been used to too much food I think it's safer for them to put on the weight gradually and let their bodies adjust slowly rather than to try and get it up quickly.

Personally if he is very underweight, I'd suggest keeping him inside all winter now until it's warmer, his body will be working hard enough to survive and gain weight and could no doubt do without the extra strain and energy requirement of needing to keep warm too.

Good luck with the lovely lad

Incidentally, how heavy is he?

I started looking back at my photos when I read this thread. I now remember how quickly he grew!! He moved in at 3 months and took over!!

Anyhow, I thought a couple of photos may help. Hector (despite his tummy troubles last year) has always been a healthy weight(!). If they aren't helpful, it's a good excuse to post them!!

3 months



4 months



Oh, and full size for scale although he looks quite small in this one.....



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Gosh he is so big in those photos. Baby bunny looks a bit smaller though it's hard to be sure and when he lies outstretched his tummy is very concaved, I think he was only about 2.9kg (will need to double check with vet) which sounds a lot but vet said he was definitely underweight after examining him and its quite obvious when you look at him. Even his face looks thin compared to your lovely bun. I am hoping he has gained a little by our next vet appt on Friday, he has certainly got an appetite on him - food disappears from his bowl in seconds although as advised I am increasing his food slowly said not to overload his tummy.

Well they are between 5 and 10kg fully grown so it does sound to me to be a little light. Poor chap!

What is wrong with some people thinking of setting him free?!

I think Hector is quite a large specimen at just under 9kg. He was so small when he arrived with me though!!

I'm not sure many people do realise just how much they eat, particularly when growing. It's part of why Hector had tummy issues because he needed too many pellets and wouldn't (still won't!) eat his hay. Fortunately, forage has taken over and SS pellets do him well

As you say, gently does it and I'm sure he'll get there.


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