Worried and heart broken

[Mojo]

Hi, really hoping someone can give me some hope. Had my bunnies 5 and a half years now, my grey bun Jo has had lots of health issues over the years and we have spent thousands of pounds on him but he is actually doing really well at the moment but my other bunny Mo, has always been the healthy strong one until last November when he got severe head tilt and was treated for E-cuniculi, he had his head tilt for a while but eventually made a full recovery, and both buns have been great until 3 weeks ago, we noticed Mo's head going off balance again, I had kept Panacur at home just in case this happened so we started his treatment straight away, he had had 8 days of panacur and then me and my husband went on holiday, my son was meant to be looking after my buns but because Mo was being treated for EC we decided to ask our vets to house them for the time we were away so Mo could be treated. I rang every other day from Spain and they told me both was doing fine. We got back from our holiday Tuesday night and I went to pick my buns up Wednesday, the vets had them ready in their carry cages for me to take them home, I could see Mo's head was still tilted, and I asked if he would be ok to go into the garden and they said yes, when I got them home I was horrified when I opened his carrier case to let him out he just fell onto the floor and kept spinning around trying to get himself up, I was distraught and couldn't do anything for him, I thought maybe the car journey had unsettled him and let him lay on the grass where he had fell onto to see if he settled but when I approached him he still kept spinning on his back and side so I rang the vets and told them and took him straight back there, the main vet has rang me this morning and said hes eating and pooping ok but still unable to stand up and to prepare myself for the worse as she doesn't think he will pull through, I asked her if we could give it until after the weekend before we make any decisions and she has said yes just want some advice... do I ask them to carry on treating him even if the vet suggests the worst has anyone had a bunny in this situation that has pulled through, not ready to lose him yet and my other bun Jo is so sad at home on his own, its breaking my heart x

 

[MightyMax]

Hi, really hoping someone can give me some hope. Had my bunnies 5 and a half years now, my grey bun Jo has had lots of health issues over the years and we have spent thousands of pounds on him but he is actually doing really well at the moment but my other bunny Mo, has always been the healthy strong one until last November when he got severe head tilt and was treated for E-cuniculi, he had his head tilt for a while but eventually made a full recovery, and both buns have been great until 3 weeks ago, we noticed Mo's head going off balance again, I had kept Panacur at home just in case this happened so we started his treatment straight away, he had had 8 days of panacur and then me and my husband went on holiday, my son was meant to be looking after my buns but because Mo was being treated for EC we decided to ask our vets to house them for the time we were away so Mo could be treated. I rang every other day from Spain and they told me both was doing fine. We got back from our holiday Tuesday night and I went to pick my buns up Wednesday, the vets had them ready in their carry cages for me to take them home, I could see Mo's head was still tilted, and I asked if he would be ok to go into the garden and they said yes, when I got them home I was horrified when I opened his carrier case to let him out he just fell onto the floor and kept spinning around trying to get himself up, I was distraught and couldn't do anything for him, I thought maybe the car journey had unsettled him and let him lay on the grass where he had fell onto to see if he settled but when I approached him he still kept spinning on his back and side so I rang the vets and told them and took him straight back there, the main vet has rang me this morning and said hes eating and pooping ok but still unable to stand up and to prepare myself for the worse as she doesn't think he will pull through, I asked her if we could give it until after the weekend before we make any decisions and she has said yes just want some advice... do I ask them to carry on treating him even if the vet suggests the worst has anyone had a bunny in this situation that has pulled through, not ready to lose him yet and my other bun Jo is so sad at home on his own, its breaking my heart x

I' so very very sorry you're in this position. It sounds horrendous and so heart breaking

If Mo hasn't responded to the treatment for EC, has the vet considered it may not be due to that, but could be a vestibular disorder? Inner ear infections can mimic the symptoms of EC and cause head tilt:

http://www.rabbit.org/journal/3-8/head-tilt.html

He would need to be on antibiotics, and injectables work best for that. Also, Metacam, an anti inflammatory is necessary not only for the pain, but in the case of EC it helps to minimise the inflammation of the lesions within the brain and help with the neurological symptoms.

To diagnose inner ear infection would require (probably) sedation for a skull X-ray, and then treatment has to be aggressive and long term.

If I were you, I would give a shot at treating for an ear infection. What have you to lose? He may be too sick to undergo a GA and the vet may decide it's a good idea to begin treatment anyway to see whether there'a any improvement.

Thinking of you and sending loads of good vibes xx

 

[Jack's-Jane]

Hi, really hoping someone can give me some hope. Had my bunnies 5 and a half years now, my grey bun Jo has had lots of health issues over the years and we have spent thousands of pounds on him but he is actually doing really well at the moment but my other bunny Mo, has always been the healthy strong one until last November when he got severe head tilt and was treated for E-cuniculi, he had his head tilt for a while but eventually made a full recovery, and both buns have been great until 3 weeks ago, we noticed Mo's head going off balance again, I had kept Panacur at home just in case this happened so we started his treatment straight away, he had had 8 days of panacur and then me and my husband went on holiday, my son was meant to be looking after my buns but because Mo was being treated for EC we decided to ask our vets to house them for the time we were away so Mo could be treated. I rang every other day from Spain and they told me both was doing fine. We got back from our holiday Tuesday night and I went to pick my buns up Wednesday, the vets had them ready in their carry cages for me to take them home, I could see Mo's head was still tilted, and I asked if he would be ok to go into the garden and they said yes, when I got them home I was horrified when I opened his carrier case to let him out he just fell onto the floor and kept spinning around trying to get himself up, I was distraught and couldn't do anything for him, I thought maybe the car journey had unsettled him and let him lay on the grass where he had fell onto to see if he settled but when I approached him he still kept spinning on his back and side so I rang the vets and told them and took him straight back there, the main vet has rang me this morning and said hes eating and pooping ok but still unable to stand up and to prepare myself for the worse as she doesn't think he will pull through, I asked her if we could give it until after the weekend before we make any decisions and she has said yes just want some advice... do I ask them to carry on treating him even if the vet suggests the worst has anyone had a bunny in this situation that has pulled through, not ready to lose him yet and my other bun Jo is so sad at home on his own, its breaking my heart x

I am very sorry to hear about Mo.

Head tilt and other vestibular symptoms can be caused by a bacterial middle ear infection aswell as EC. Has the Vet considered this possibility ?

What other medication is Mo having, aswell as the Panacur. In the abscence of a definitive diagnosis many Rabbit Savvy Vets would treat with a covering antibiotic alongside the Panacur to cover for a possible bacterial infection. A non steroidal anti-inflammatory such as Metacam is also essential, whether the symptoms are EC related or bacterial infection related. It is inflammation within the CNS that causes the Vestibular symptoms/head tilt.

Did the Vet advise you to treat Jo with Panacur too ?

These links may be useful to take a look at :

http://www.vettimes.co.uk/article/diagnosing-encephalitozoon-cuniculi-infection-in-rabbits/

http://www.vettimes.co.uk/article/treatment-of-encephalitozoon-cuniculi-infection-in-rabbits/

http://www.vettimes.co.uk/article/diagnosis-of-otitis-externa-media-and-interna-in-rabbits/

http://www.vettimes.co.uk/article/diagnosis-of-otitis-externa-media-and-interna-in-rabbits/

 

[TheThreeB's]

So sorry this is happening, I can't advise, but hope he recovers x

 

[cara]

My elderly rabbit lost her balance and the vet basically sent her home to live out her final days.once home in desperation, I rang up and asked if we could try antibiotics.

The improvement was almost instantaneous and she fully recovered. I think she must have had an inner ear infection which wasn't visible on inspection. (I changed my vets after this).

This might not be related to your rabbit but thought worth mentioning. Best of luck for a happy outcome.

 

[Mojo]

Thanks all. The vet hasn't done anything but giving him Panacur, I have been scouring the internet for answers and seen that anti-biotics and steroids may help, would it be wrong of me to tell them it could be inner ear infection and to give him other medication? surely the vets should know what they are doing? Should I be worried the vets are not trying anything else?

 

[MightyMax]

Thanks all. The vet hasn't done anything but giving him Panacur, I have been scouring the internet for answers and seen that anti-biotics and steroids may help, would it be wrong of me to tell them it could be inner ear infection and to give him other medication? surely the vets should know what they are doing? Should I be worried the vets are not trying anything else?

I would certainly be concerned that your vet has not suggested the alternative diagnoses. I suggested it, and I am not a vet! They ought to know.

If you're not confident in your vet's rabbit knowledge (they never get much training in rabbits) then post another thread in Rabbit Chat with 'Looking for a Rabbit Savvy vet in ..(your location)' and people will give you their recommendations.

Alternatively, yes definitely suggest to your vet the possibility of inner ear infection and other treatment options.

I am quite horrified that they didn't warn you that your rabbit was unstable on his feet when you picked him up. It must have been a real shock when you discovered how he was after your holiday.

Good luck xx

 

[Jack's-Jane]

Thanks all. The vet hasn't done anything but giving him Panacur, I have been scouring the internet for answers and seen that anti-biotics and steroids may help, would it be wrong of me to tell them it could be inner ear infection and to give him other medication? surely the vets should know what they are doing? Should I be worried the vets are not trying anything else?

I dont think it is helpful to start 'Vet bashing', but it might be a good idea to seek a second opinion about your Rabbit's treatment. Unfortunately not all Small Animal Vets are up-to-date on Rabbit Health matters.

You could ask the Vet about treating Mo for an ear infection as well as for EC and you could also print off the 4 links I gave you in my previous post and show them to the Vet. If he/she remains unwilling to be more pro-active with treatment you could ask for a referral to a Specialist.

You are a paying client so you are well within your rights to ask questions, make suggestions and if necessary take your custom (and your Rabbit) elsewhere.

Good luck xx

 

[Mojo]

I have rang them and spoke to the nurse in the boarding and asked if any more treatment can be given to him, I have suggested a possible ear infection but she assured me that the vet would have probably ruled that out, I have asked if he could try some antibiotics and steroids and she said she will talk to the vet and get her to ring me, I'm not ready to lose him, never a good time for any bun to go but I want him to have a fighting chance.

 

[MightyMax]

I have rang them and spoke to the nurse in the boarding and asked if any more treatment can be given to him, I have suggested a possible ear infection but she assured me that the vet would have probably ruled that out, I have asked if he could try some antibiotics and steroids and she said she will talk to the vet and get her to ring me, I'm not ready to lose him, never a good time for any bun to go but I want him to have a fighting chance.

It's always wise to be cautious with steroids - just so you know. Metacam is a pain killer and anti-inflammatory. However, in extreme circumstances, steroids can be very useful.

You can always seek a second opinion. There's nothing stopping you shopping around for another vet - or even just ringing another vet for their advice, as we are not qualified on here You can go and see another vet without letting your current vet know, although if they begin treatment they will most likely ask for the notes to be sent over. That isn't an issue and vets are more than happy to send the notes over. Many people on this Forum do this when their 'normal' vet is unable to deal with the complexity of a case. This doesn't mean you have to leave your current vet at all and vets are happy with this arrangement.

I can understand the vet nurse saying that the vet would have considered an ear infection, but try and speak with the vet himself/herself, and ask on what criteria they ruled that out.

 

[Jack's-Jane]

I have rang them and spoke to the nurse in the boarding and asked if any more treatment can be given to him, I have suggested a possible ear infection but she assured me that the vet would have probably ruled that out, I have asked if he could try some antibiotics and steroids and she said she will talk to the vet and get her to ring me, I'm not ready to lose him, never a good time for any bun to go but I want him to have a fighting chance.

Hopefully getting to speak with the Vet herself it will be more helpful to you. If the Vet refuses to consider additional treatment then personally I'd want to insist on a Second Opinion, either from a Specialist Vet or by your current Vet discharging your Rabbit from their care and then you taking him directly to another Vet. If your Rabbit is currently an In patient and under the care of a Vet it would be unethical for another Vet from another Practice to discuss treatment options for Mo with you. Another Vet cannot get involved in the treatment of a Pet that is an Inpatient and already under the care of another Vet without the original Vet's consent/knowledge.

 

[Mojo]

They have just rang me and have given him his first lot of antibiotics and anti-inflammatory, and will continue over the weekend to see how he goes but she also said to not get my hopes up but I am keeping everything crossed and will be praying, thank you all x

 

[MightyMax]

They have just rang me and have given him his first lot of antibiotics and anti-inflammatory, and will continue over the weekend to see how he goes I am keeping everything crossed and will be praying, thank you all x

You are very welcome :thumb:

So pleased you are getting somewhere with your little one :wave:

 

[Fellie]

How very worrying for you - but I am so pleased you've been given something else to try. Fingers and paws crossed for the boy. xxx

 

[Jack's-Jane]

They have just rang me and have given him his first lot of antibiotics and anti-inflammatory, and will continue over the weekend to see how he goes but she also said to not get my hopes up but I am keeping everything crossed and will be praying, thank you all x

That's great news. I really hope that Mo can show some signs of responding to treatment xx

 

[Mojo]

A quick update, there was no signs of improvement last night when they rang me they said they would ring today but havent, they must be busy, I will ring in the morning and we are going to see him tomorrow night to see how he is and make a decision, it's breaking my heart and seeing Jo at home on his own (my other bunny) is upsetting me too! He's not his normal self, they are a pair and have always been a pair

 

[Clarekg]

Vets are not always right and if you still believe that Jo has a chance then keep going, if that means change of vet then so be it. If your vet is offended that is their problem, every professional I spoke to told me that they would only see Acorn if it was to pts. We refused to give up and she received no professional help yet still survived myxomatosis, being removed from the wild and being caged in a house with a noisy dog. I know it is an entirely different illness but I hope it will give you some hope that sometimes even against the odds they can pull through good luck x

 

[MightyMax]

A quick update, there was no signs of improvement last night when they rang me they said they would ring today but havent, they must be busy, I will ring in the morning and we are going to see him tomorrow night to see how he is and make a decision, it's breaking my heart and seeing Jo at home on his own (my other bunny) is upsetting me too! He's not his normal self, they are a pair and have always been a pair

I'm so very sorry to hear this.

If this were my rabbit, I would seek a second opinion before considering other options. As I said previously, you are free and entitled to visit as many vets as you wish! Many people do this, it's quite legal and ethical and in fact a necessity in getting appropriate treatment for our rabbits. My 'normal' vet has been unable to help my rabbits on more than one occasion and is absolutely fine about me going elsewhere to get good treatment. And to go back to her again

Alarms bells rang for me when you said: 'they said they would ring, but haven't'. Your rabbit is equally important as every other animal they look after.

Thinking of you and please keep in touch x

 

[bunny momma]

Hello Mojo,

I know how heartbreaking it can be to see a bunny in distress from head tilt. Over the past three decades I dealt with it with five different bunnies. Only one of them did not recover with abx. The other four recovered even though two had a small amount of residual head tilt for the remainder of their long lives.
In my experience it is the type of illness where improvement will happen over several days. In the meantime keep your bunny in a limited area with blankets or towels around him for support. Make sure he gets water or sub-Q fluids. Minimize moving him.
Sending you and your bunnies positive vibes.

 

[Mojo]

Just spoken to a nurse who looked after him whilst we was away, and she said shes shocked to see him like this and said its not nice seeing him in this condition, she said he was doing fine last week, was able to get about and do all the normal bunny stuff, so it looks like the car journey bringin him home has done something to him and not the E-Cuniculi, maybe the journey was too much for him, he has made no progress at all since I took him straight back in last Wednesday, I am on my way there now to speak to them and make a decision, I cant stop crying, just want my bunny to be ok