Why is it Acceptable for Breeding Rabbits to Have Small Hutches ?

[Jack's-Jane]

What enjoyment is there in seeing Rabbits just sitting in tiny hutches ? How can a Rabbit run and binky in a 4ft hutch ? *Some* breeders might give their Rabbits time out in a run, but I know not all of them do. Some Breeding 'stock' only leave their hutch to be mated up

It is incomprehensible to me that anyone would think this is OK

 

[w1lll]

What enjoyment is there in seeing Rabbits just sitting in tiny hutches ? How can a Rabbit run and binky in a 4ft hutch ? *Some* breeders might give their Rabbits time out in a run, but I know not all of them do. Some Breeding 'stock' only leave their hutch to be mated up

It is incomprehensible to me that anyone would think this is OK

It's money again isn't it

 

[raine]

I agree Jane. I have noticed photos of one breeding set up, recently displayed on another forum,and I thought rarely it was really good. This would have been the only set up that I have ever thought was good and there have been some dire set ups.

When I let my French lops out for the first time, they didn't even know what to do. Two french lops in a 3' hutch for a year, it was awful.

 

[Jack's-Jane]

I agree Jane. I have noticed photos of one breeding set up, recently displayed on another forum,and I thought rarely it was really good. This would have been the only set up that I have ever thought was good and there have been some dire set ups.

When I let my French lops out for the first time, they didn't even know what to do. Two french lops in a 3' hutch for a year, it was awful.

:shock:

 

[ecudc]

incomprehensible yes but unfortunately legal. even freedom food chickens can have up to 12 chickens per square metre (for meat)...think about how much room 12 chickens takes up in a supermarket shelf!

 

[bridget]

When I let my French lops out for the first time, they didn't even know what to do. Two french lops in a 3' hutch for a year, it was awful.

Oh my god I could cry at the thought - that's just awful. Poor little mites. Thank goodness they are with you now. x

 

[coco1200]

My girl was in a 5x2x2 hutch PERMANENTLY for the whole of her 18 months she was alive before she came to me. Bear in mind she was close to 8kgs!!

Whoever is saying a rabbit can exhibit normal behaviour in a tiny hutch is the biggest cack I have ever heard. She came to me not having a single clue what to do with the space she had. NOW she is exhibiting normal behaivour... more than 12 hours free range time outside and she is kept safe at night in a 15 x 4ft enclosure!

 

[Mackers]

My girl was in a 5x2x2 hutch PERMANENTLY for the whole of her 18 months she was alive before she came to me. Bear in mind she was close to 8kgs!!

:shock::shock::shock::shock: Bloody hell! I bet her previous owners thought they'd got a 'massive' hutch as well didn't they?? Sadly, most people think that rabbits live in a small wooden box in the garden and just sit and look out of it all day. They have no idea that rabbits actually MOVE. Unfortunately, most people don't actually care enough to do anything about it either.

 

[areia]

linus would not move out of the A4 cardboard box i had for him as a hidy hole in my kitchen for 3 weeks,

at first he had the run of my kitchen, I had to make him an area that was small as he was petrified, wasnt until after his first dental and me sleeping on the floor in the kitchen with him ( was giving 4 hourly feeds his poop was like tiny gravel when he arrived ) even then he only snuck out while i was asleep as my blanket was covered in bunny poops in the morning, and one morning having my eyelids licked

he got a wife and lovedddddddddddddd his rountine morning binky marathon before totaly stretching out in the sun, he loved sunbathing, for a mini rex anything smaller than 5x2 after coming from a place living in a small box, he would never go back too no way, if i was late in the morning boy did i know it

 

[VikkiVet]

This is the case, if the rabbits are classed as 'livestock' and moreso if they are culling and eating them aswell, they only need to adhere to Defra guidelines. This is the bit that I cannot fathom-animals are entitled to a higher standard of welfare because they are pets:? Even this isn't enforceable in the case of rabbits because of the law surrounding the 'farmed' ones. The Defra legislation needs to state minimum requirements for keeping rabbits in terms of size of enclosure, amount of exercise and natural light, diet and companionship before you stand a chance of imposing it on ordinary pet owners. It is back to front at the moment, breeders/farmers should be exceeding the standards and setting the standard - this would assume that they care about their 'stock' though and that is not the case 99% of the time, money is the motivation the animal's welfare is way down the list of priorities for most if not all back garden breeders, they are selfish people with little or no compassion at all in my opinion.

The legislation that is in place at the moment is equivalent to battery hens, cattle kept in milking sheds, rabbits in breeding hutches- all well below what is actually necessary to be humane and provide a reasonable standard of living for the animal whatever their demise is likely to be or however long it is likely to have to endure the conditions it is born into and forced to lived in. I also think there needs to be leglislation to prevent people 'choosing' to kill their own animals, it is not acceptable that you can kill any animal in this country providing you don't cause un-necessary suffering. It is completely ridiculous to leave it to people to determine 'suffering' when clearly people can't even work out in their own minds what is humane in terms of accomodation for an animal in this country. It is also ridiculous to assume that people will infact try to ensure there is no suffering involved, surely if someone is capable of that act in the first place it is indicative of a lack of humanity/compassion?

What is interesting Vikkivet is that potentially in this country vets could go out of business if everyone were to be like breeders/farmers and not vaccinate or neuter their pets and instead of getting them treated we just went round whacking them round the head with a spade or breaking their necks-a judge found someone not guilty of cruelty because he decided to kill his cat himself by whacking it with a spade rather than pay a vet to PTS. I mean come on - which way do they want it in this country? Something has to change because animals do deserve protection from cruelty and suffering and if you make a commitment and take on an animal I am sorry but, in my view it is your responsibility to use a vet when the animal needs medical attention or needs to be PTS. People who want to be 'slaughtermen/women' should have to attend a course and demonstrate their ability to do it properly and get a certificate to ensure it is being done humanely.

The whole thing is completely inadequate and out of date and frankly whoever is advising Defra wants locking in the equivalent size enclosure for a month - then see whether they think the size ratio is condusive with mental and physical well-being.

Sorry to waffle on but, this is very sensitve for me at the moment, it has quite recently come to my attention and I am so disappointed in the human race and their attitude towards defenceless animals at the moment, it's appauling and shameful.

I may have to add "i agree with VickiP" to my signature! :lol::lol::lol::lol: although not entirely in this case. As you say, its a sensitive subject, but i do refute the idea that 99% of farmers dont care about their livestock. Most of the farmers i have worked with and for care deeply about their animals and get very frustrated, angry and sad that they cannot afford to do more for their comfort and welfare. But blame that on the 'Great' British public who refuse to pay a decent amount for animal products, and the supermarkets and processors who do only care about their profits.

It is indeed legal for people to knock off their own animals, as long as they do it in a 'humane' way. I have had clients with rats and mice for example that were perfectly proficient in human euthanasia so i had no objection to them using these methods when their pets/stock became ill or too old to breed (ignoring the ethics of these reasons themselves). I worry more about people who don't know how to do it properly but try and get it wrong In terms of housing and conditions - many farm species/breeds are in a catch 22 where we have misguidedly selectively bred them for certain traits which now makes them incapable of comfortably living in their original natural environment. E.g. if you breed any Holstein Fresian dairy cow she will produce more milk that her calf needs, and cannot eat enough grass to convert into energy to maintain her body condition. So, despite it being more convenient etc for us, such animals need to be housed most of the year and fed formulated rations in order to survive.

I made this poster - I'm trying to get up the courage to print some and stick them to the hutches outside a local petshop that sells rubbish little hutches. I can't believe how much they cost, and for total tat!

 

[areia]

ooooooooooo they look good ill have a copy ( really got to fix my printer :evil: ) i have a few pet shops i could super glue them to windows to

 

[VikkiVet]

super glue, thats a genius idea! :lol::lol::lol:

 

[coco1200]

:shock::shock::shock::shock: Bloody hell! I bet her previous owners thought they'd got a 'massive' hutch as well didn't they?? Sadly, most people think that rabbits live in a small wooden box in the garden and just sit and look out of it all day. They have no idea that rabbits actually MOVE. Unfortunately, most people don't actually care enough to do anything about it either.

Its shocking... her joints were extremely clicky when she came here, and the vet was convinced that she was arthritic and had joint problems! At the age of a year old!! :shock: It was being hunched up in a hutch for all that time that did it. She's now free range and not a joint problem in sight! She was also very overweight.

What's even more worrying is that the couple who I got her off were running a 'rescue' and had their other buns in those set ups permanently too

 

[VickiP]

I may have to add "i agree with VickiP" to my signature! :lol::lol::lol::lol: although not entirely in this case. As you say, its a sensitive subject, but i do refute the idea that 99% of farmers dont care about their livestock. Most of the farmers i have worked with and for care deeply about their animals and get very frustrated, angry and sad that they cannot afford to do more for their comfort and welfare. But blame that on the 'Great' British public who refuse to pay a decent amount for animal products, and the supermarkets and processors who do only care about their profits.

It is indeed legal for people to knock off their own animals, as long as they do it in a 'humane' way. I have had clients with rats and mice for example that were perfectly proficient in human euthanasia so i had no objection to them using these methods when their pets/stock became ill or too old to breed (ignoring the ethics of these reasons themselves). I worry more about people who don't know how to do it properly but try and get it wrong In terms of housing and conditions - many farm species/breeds are in a catch 22 where we have misguidedly selectively bred them for certain traits which now makes them incapable of comfortably living in their original natural environment. E.g. if you breed any Holstein Fresian dairy cow she will produce more milk that her calf needs, and cannot eat enough grass to convert into energy to maintain her body condition. So, despite it being more convenient etc for us, such animals need to be housed most of the year and fed formulated rations in order to survive.

I made this poster - I'm trying to get up the courage to print some and stick them to the hutches outside a local petshop that sells rubbish little hutches. I can't believe how much they cost, and for total tat!

:wave: I love the poster if you get some printed I will put a few up in a few places I can think of, I will be the poster fairy. :lol:

I see what your saying about the farmers you have experience of and I don't dispute that some would care about their animals, they must do if your involved in the first place :lol: I am sure that what they say is absolutely true, the supermarkets do have a lot to answer for.

With the regards the animals that due to health problems (breeding) aren't able to live in their natural environment and are better off in sheds, frankly that species shouldn't be kept in my view if they are unable to get a balance between pasture and being in the shed, I can see that it would be necessary sometimes to keep them in a shed but, not for life surely. Again I think this is a convenience issue for the farmer.

It's an absolute farce frankly that there is no legislation on animal welfare in this country and that the politicians in power are elected by us to represent us and legislate to improve the country. There needs to be some laws laid down now. It should have been done years ago after the war but, then animal welfare has never been on the top of anyones list of priorities, it's assumed aswell if you care about animal rights/welfare that you don't value human rights/welfare - well that is absolutely not the case - the difference is people are capable of looking after themselves and speaking for themselves, animals aren't. I've said it before and I truely believe that the people in this world will never find peace until they can show humanity to the animal kingdom. It's not about culture either it is about respect and compassion.

 

[honeybunny]

Great poster but not sure the RSPCA would want you to put their name to possible prosecution for people keeping them in smaller hutches as the measurements are only advisory:?

Rest of it very good and should be plastered everywhere
just editing to add..could you include the pic of a 6 x 4 shed with price to show how they often work out cheaper?

 

[VikkiVet]

:wave: I love the poster if you get some printed I will put a few up in a few places I can think of, I will be the poster fairy. :lol:

With the regards the animals that due to health problems (breeding) aren't able to live in their natural environment and are better off in sheds, frankly that species shouldn't be kept in my view if they are unable to get a balance between pasture and being in the shed, I can see that it would be necessary sometimes to keep them in a shed but, not for life surely. Again I think this is a convenience issue for the farmer.

I meant to say that its not acceptable that we have bred them this way, but mostly it was done before in-depth genetic studies were possible and many farmers are slowly heading back the other way because its actually more economical and convenient to have them in their natural environment e.g. dairy cows grazing - less labour, less time/money/labour in mixing and feeding, better use of land, easier waste disposal, lower vet costs etc. I mainly blame importing American semen where they have 3,000+ cows per herd and only last 1-2 milking seasons and so can "get away" with poor conformation/fertility/etc and lower standards of welfare

Anyone who wants a copy of the poster, feel free to PM me your email address and i'll send it to you. I wasnt sure about the RSPCA comment - trying to suggest the serious implications of neglect, which i think includes inadequate space and poor quality housing. Maybe i should add "could" = prosecution? or change it to warning/confiscation?

I will try to make another with a shed on it - might use pics of my wendyhouse or something. Need a supplier name to add with it though.

 

[giantbunnymummy]

Love the poster

As Jill says, I'd be wary of stating anything definite about prosecution though.

You could change it to just say 'keeping rabbits in a smaller space = neglect and deprivation' and leave out the bit about prosecutions and fines.
Would leave you space to add in a shed picture too

 

[honeybunny]

Focus or B & Q for sheds

 

[VikkiVet]

Ok i have made a few changes - can anyone supply me with a shed and run photo and how much it cost please? and where it came from.

Thanks :thumb:

 

[ecudc]

also you can't reproduce pictures without the owners consent