bunny momma
Wise Old Thumper
Glad your babies are home and doing well after vaccines. Sending you all vibes for the next stage of your bonding.
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very tiny babies..
- Thread starter binkyCodie
- Start date
it certainly is
so I think he's just scared, perhaps? which is interesting. esp considering Cosmo is like the size of his back foot tbh :lol:
I would guess rabbits are no different to dogs and horses/ponies who only register another of the species, not the size. Size/breed doesn't seem to be an important factor in hierarchy amongst animals with a huge variation. I mean, how often is the little jack russel the boss of the group, or the shetland pony is the bossy one of the herd? But then I guess this is also why you can bond giants rabbits to dwarf rabbits just as easily as giant to giant and dwarf to dwarf.
binkyCodie
Mama Doe
so Cosmo escaped early hours of this morning :lol:
woke up to tiny footsteps in our bedroom, opened my eyes, "oh hey Cosmo", went back to sleep, "wait, COSMO?"
and there she is, sat in the middle of my room, just staring. I wake my BF up because I'm sure this is some weird messed up dream. nope, he also sees Cosmo in the middle of our room.
closed the bedroom door, scooped her up, and just sat on the bed wondering what the hell was going on. took her downstairs and she had squished through a gap that wasn't covered by the second pen, and I mean it was a seriously tiny gap :lol: put her back and nothing seemed damaged
honestly I'm shocked she managed to scale the stairs tbh!! they're bigger than she is.
my friends joked its like a kid coming into your room to tell you they had a nightmare :lol: she just. sat in the middle of the room. she looked as confused as I did
woke up to tiny footsteps in our bedroom, opened my eyes, "oh hey Cosmo", went back to sleep, "wait, COSMO?"
and there she is, sat in the middle of my room, just staring. I wake my BF up because I'm sure this is some weird messed up dream. nope, he also sees Cosmo in the middle of our room.
closed the bedroom door, scooped her up, and just sat on the bed wondering what the hell was going on. took her downstairs and she had squished through a gap that wasn't covered by the second pen, and I mean it was a seriously tiny gap :lol: put her back and nothing seemed damaged
honestly I'm shocked she managed to scale the stairs tbh!! they're bigger than she is.
my friends joked its like a kid coming into your room to tell you they had a nightmare :lol: she just. sat in the middle of the room. she looked as confused as I did
binkyCodie
Mama Doe
so unfortunately we had a step back yesterday during bonding
we've had two sessions face to face, in the bathroom (neutral smallish area), with a blanket down so no slipperiness. hay has been provided.
Orion is very .. defensive. he doesn't seek them out, but is extremely wary of them. when they get too close, he usually attempts to go for them. thus far no damages, we've placed something between so he can't actually bite them when he attempts.
Juno is a little nightmare, constantly seeking Orion out and causing chaos. bonding looks as follows: eats hay, bites toes, runs to Orion, eats hay, bites wall, runs to Orion, eats hay, zooms around, runs to Orion .. you get the idea :lol: she's constantly excited to greet Orion no matter how many times he attempts to chase her off.
Cosmo is the embodiment of couldn't care less. she explores the room, stares at Orion, and then alternates between snacking, and taking a nap. as Cosmo doesn't care much, Orion usually ignores her. he's mostly reactive to movement or them coming up to him, which Cosmo just does not care to do.
our first session was positive. there wasn't any huge scuffles, we had about half an hour together, and Orion even lied down next to me after around 20 minutes and did seem quite relaxed. Cosmo mostly napped, Juno acted like she had eaten a battery, the usual :lol:
yesterday's wasn't so positive. Juno was doing her usual causing chaos, she was zooming around. Orion was on the other side of the room, Cosmo breaded next to my boyfriends foot. I guess he just felt overwhelmed at Juno zooming around (she wasn't near him at all however), so he charged across the room at Cosmo, who was taking a nap. my BF managed to grab him, however he did manage to nip Cosmo we think, and she started screaming no obvious wounds I can tell, and she quickly calmed down after I scooped her up (she seemed to huddle into me and chose to stay there). I'd take a guess a rabbit that's almost 5x your weight running at you while you're minding your business taking a nap is pretty frightening.
idk if scooping her up was the right choice, tbh I think full protective mom instincts kicked in as I thought she was extremely hurt.
I know every session should end on a high note but I ended it there. I was really distraught just from her screaming which is my own emotions getting the better of me. everybody got a treat, but it happened after being separated. Cosmo was so freaked out I didn't feel comfortable subjecting her to more time.
she seems okay, she became much more lively in her pen and ran circles around me once we got downstairs. after that it was regular schedule of napping in the hay bowl :lol:
we didn't really expect it. they had space between them, Juno was on the opposite side to Orion, as was Cosmo as she was in the other corner. he was following her with his head. then suddenly he 180's and charges at Cosmo.
I'm gonna give everybody a days break or so and see what my plan is from there.
usually I'm fairly good with bonding, I don't let my emotions or nerves get the better of me the past two times I have bonded. but idk. hearing a tiny baby rabbit scream like that .. its really heart breaking
we've had two sessions face to face, in the bathroom (neutral smallish area), with a blanket down so no slipperiness. hay has been provided.
Orion is very .. defensive. he doesn't seek them out, but is extremely wary of them. when they get too close, he usually attempts to go for them. thus far no damages, we've placed something between so he can't actually bite them when he attempts.
Juno is a little nightmare, constantly seeking Orion out and causing chaos. bonding looks as follows: eats hay, bites toes, runs to Orion, eats hay, bites wall, runs to Orion, eats hay, zooms around, runs to Orion .. you get the idea :lol: she's constantly excited to greet Orion no matter how many times he attempts to chase her off.
Cosmo is the embodiment of couldn't care less. she explores the room, stares at Orion, and then alternates between snacking, and taking a nap. as Cosmo doesn't care much, Orion usually ignores her. he's mostly reactive to movement or them coming up to him, which Cosmo just does not care to do.
our first session was positive. there wasn't any huge scuffles, we had about half an hour together, and Orion even lied down next to me after around 20 minutes and did seem quite relaxed. Cosmo mostly napped, Juno acted like she had eaten a battery, the usual :lol:
yesterday's wasn't so positive. Juno was doing her usual causing chaos, she was zooming around. Orion was on the other side of the room, Cosmo breaded next to my boyfriends foot. I guess he just felt overwhelmed at Juno zooming around (she wasn't near him at all however), so he charged across the room at Cosmo, who was taking a nap. my BF managed to grab him, however he did manage to nip Cosmo we think, and she started screaming
no obvious wounds I can tell, and she quickly calmed down after I scooped her up (she seemed to huddle into me and chose to stay there). I'd take a guess a rabbit that's almost 5x your weight running at you while you're minding your business taking a nap is pretty frightening. idk if scooping her up was the right choice, tbh I think full protective mom instincts kicked in as I thought she was extremely hurt.
I know every session should end on a high note but I ended it there. I was really distraught just from her screaming which is my own emotions getting the better of me. everybody got a treat, but it happened after being separated. Cosmo was so freaked out I didn't feel comfortable subjecting her to more time.
she seems okay, she became much more lively in her pen and ran circles around me once we got downstairs. after that it was regular schedule of napping in the hay bowl :lol:
we didn't really expect it. they had space between them, Juno was on the opposite side to Orion, as was Cosmo as she was in the other corner. he was following her with his head. then suddenly he 180's and charges at Cosmo.
I'm gonna give everybody a days break or so and see what my plan is from there.
usually I'm fairly good with bonding, I don't let my emotions or nerves get the better of me the past two times I have bonded. but idk. hearing a tiny baby rabbit scream like that .. its really heart breaking
CarelessSquid07
Mama Doe
I know what you mean when one of ours screamed I grabbed the nearest straight up and hubby for the other. Its a really primal noise and I don't think we could help it.
Sounds like your little fluffball of energy is annoying Orion a bit. A break sounds good.
I've never had one so young but do they have sleepy times? We did our first session at naptime which seemed to help with the initial hostilities as they were mostly annoyed with us for disturbing them.
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Sounds like your little fluffball of energy is annoying Orion a bit. A break sounds good.
I've never had one so young but do they have sleepy times? We did our first session at naptime which seemed to help with the initial hostilities as they were mostly annoyed with us for disturbing them.
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I wonder if it might be better if you try in a larger area, so that the younger two can run away and would give you more chance to grab Orion if necessary.
When I was bonding Tui with Tethra (and don't forget he was 7 at the time, so slower), Tui would deliberately rush up to Tethra and give him a tiny nip/nudge on his bum and then run away usually binkying. He was never fast enough to catch her. I remember she did this for quite some time with the same result. Slowly, she stopped doing it and Tethra stopped reacting when she did. I think this behaviour is harmless in itself as long as it isn't allowed to become aggression.
In my view also no two bonds are the same and adapting your plans sometimes works. Good luck, bonding is always a stressful event.
When I was bonding Tui with Tethra (and don't forget he was 7 at the time, so slower), Tui would deliberately rush up to Tethra and give him a tiny nip/nudge on his bum and then run away usually binkying. He was never fast enough to catch her. I remember she did this for quite some time with the same result. Slowly, she stopped doing it and Tethra stopped reacting when she did. I think this behaviour is harmless in itself as long as it isn't allowed to become aggression.
In my view also no two bonds are the same and adapting your plans sometimes works. Good luck, bonding is always a stressful event.
Very sweet
binkyCodie
Mama Doe
its been a few days since I spammed you all with baby pictures so here I am :lol:
babies are doing really well, Juno's still on her growth spurt I think, and Cosmo looks a little bigger! I'll see if I can weigh them today, just for the sake of tracking them and to make sure there's no issues.
this was after their vet check, I was naughty and gave them a slither of dried carrot as an apology :lol: I forgot to post these so here they are
last weeks weigh day, Cosmo weighs 470g roughly, and Juno 710g
they've finally started to use the litter box too, which I'm so proud of them for! :lol: I went to the local pet store to grab a small plastic dog bed (same thing I use for Ori, but larger) which works out much better than my impromptu carrier litter box
& here's some general cuteness:
can't let the babies steal all of the show so: here's Orion too! he's doing fine. we're making sure to dedicate time to him daily, and if the babies get something, he does too.
he's shedding like crazy atm
babies are doing really well, Juno's still on her growth spurt I think, and Cosmo looks a little bigger! I'll see if I can weigh them today, just for the sake of tracking them and to make sure there's no issues.
this was after their vet check, I was naughty and gave them a slither of dried carrot as an apology :lol: I forgot to post these so here they are
last weeks weigh day, Cosmo weighs 470g roughly, and Juno 710g
they've finally started to use the litter box too, which I'm so proud of them for! :lol: I went to the local pet store to grab a small plastic dog bed (same thing I use for Ori, but larger) which works out much better than my impromptu carrier litter box
& here's some general cuteness:
can't let the babies steal all of the show so: here's Orion too! he's doing fine. we're making sure to dedicate time to him daily, and if the babies get something, he does too.
he's shedding like crazy atm
binkyCodie
Mama Doe
as for bonding, my BF and I have been doing what we've called dinner dates, they eat their evening pellet on each side of the pen. I think progress has been positive. he associates the babies with something he loves (pellet), and usually he's too excited about pellet to bother them (same for the babies)
he's still extremely defensive; he goes to sniff the babies, and they're so excited, they love it when he comes into the room. but he then attempts to bite them. its like, he wants to sniff the babies, but doesn't want to be sniffed back. they don't bite Orion, just sniff, Juno even attempted a lick but he wasn't happy with that. he can't actually reach them, so we just let him do his thing in a way, and make sure to positively reward when we have an interaction from him that doesn't cause biting.
the biting is easing off, previously its been every time he's approached, bite. but last night we had 2 interactions or so where he sniffed, and just walked off instead.
I think he's extremely insecure .. which I'm unsure how to help him with that. during dinner dates I, or my BF, sit on the floor for comfort next to him. he does often come to us and hunker down, or jump in our laps, asking for pets. so I do think its a positive influence. he's constantly stomping and looks stressed, and while he stomps for more than just danger, I do think he feels threatened by their presence? I really don't know :? I'm trying to think how I'd handle an insecure / anxious dog, which is positive reinforcement in short bursts to the thing that's scary. ofc he isn't a dog but, its the only thing I can think to apply since there isn't much information on handling rabbit behaviour
I'm doing my best to positively reinforce every interaction, and ignore the negative ones (unless he really goes for it, in which we try to redirect or just move him away). I'm unsure if I'm doing the right thing.
during our two face to face meets, he was evidently stressed and looking for a way to get out & away from them. so I want to for now, try to focus on building his confidence in some way, and how comfortable he is around them. I think that pent up anxiety is what causes him to be so freaked out & thus defensive during our face to face sessions
heres one of the positive interactions I managed to grab a picture of; just gentle sniffing, and he backed off after a moment
he's still extremely defensive; he goes to sniff the babies, and they're so excited, they love it when he comes into the room. but he then attempts to bite them. its like, he wants to sniff the babies, but doesn't want to be sniffed back. they don't bite Orion, just sniff, Juno even attempted a lick but he wasn't happy with that. he can't actually reach them, so we just let him do his thing in a way, and make sure to positively reward when we have an interaction from him that doesn't cause biting.
the biting is easing off, previously its been every time he's approached, bite. but last night we had 2 interactions or so where he sniffed, and just walked off instead.
I think he's extremely insecure .. which I'm unsure how to help him with that. during dinner dates I, or my BF, sit on the floor for comfort next to him. he does often come to us and hunker down, or jump in our laps, asking for pets. so I do think its a positive influence. he's constantly stomping and looks stressed, and while he stomps for more than just danger, I do think he feels threatened by their presence? I really don't know :? I'm trying to think how I'd handle an insecure / anxious dog, which is positive reinforcement in short bursts to the thing that's scary. ofc he isn't a dog but, its the only thing I can think to apply since there isn't much information on handling rabbit behaviour
I'm doing my best to positively reinforce every interaction, and ignore the negative ones (unless he really goes for it, in which we try to redirect or just move him away). I'm unsure if I'm doing the right thing.
during our two face to face meets, he was evidently stressed and looking for a way to get out & away from them. so I want to for now, try to focus on building his confidence in some way, and how comfortable he is around them. I think that pent up anxiety is what causes him to be so freaked out & thus defensive during our face to face sessions
heres one of the positive interactions I managed to grab a picture of; just gentle sniffing, and he backed off after a moment
binkyCodie
Mama Doe
sleepy times .. what's that? :lol:
they do take short naps but they aren't really .. scheduled in a way. Cosmo is the more "chill" out of the pair of them, so usually she's hunkered down just enjoying some peace and quiet. however I think Juno ate a battery and she's on the go the majority of the time. she does settle at some points, but they're like 15m power naps and she's quickly up again. if anything happens during her powernap that's exciting, she's up and ready to join in.
Juno is the main issue with bonding, she's so damn excitable, and consequently excited over Orion, that she's difficult to handle. full of beans :lol:
binkyCodie
Mama Doe
yeah; I'll need to adjust. the space wasn't small small, I'd guess maybe 5ft or so? idk, I could fully lay down in it so I'll use myself as a measurement :lol:
I think I need to find a way to give Juno something to do during face to face meets, so that she isn't excitable over just Orion. she's so desperate to befriend him and so excited over seeing him every time. unfortunately thus far none of the babies have shown an interest in any type of toy, or much of anything, really. during our face to face meets we had a large spread out area of hay, but, Juno was far more interested in Orion (and causing mass chaos to us). I'm just unsure what to provide. toys aren't of interest. I have some puzzle toys, but my concern is I don't have one of each, so somebody is going to hog it which defeats the purpose (esp as Orion is so food motivated). we did have a hide during our first bonding session (two entrances/exits), but Juno slipped in when Orion was in it and locked onto her. I am a bit of a worry wart, but given his insecurity, if they fight in a hide, reactions are slower from us, and I don't want any serious injuries (since if he catches them, they are certainly more than just nips).
while it would be lovely to bond pre-hormones, for us & him, I think it needs a lot more time. so I can (try) to build up Orion's confidence around them, and hopefully, if they get bigger toys may be more interesting. I think rn they're so darn small that trying to chew a toy is just a no go, since eating hay is a task .. :lol:
binkyCodie
Mama Doe
they're both mini rexes! from the same litter.
pet store (its a family run that source from local breeders) showed me their sex, I checked their sex, a vet checked their sex. so, I'd hope they're girls :lol:
when I got them they were just 8 weeks old, and both were the same size. since then, Juno's hit a bit of a growth spurt I think. Cosmo is more growing at a slow and steady pace. Juno shot up in size.
CarelessSquid07
Mama Doe
Mini rexes are bouncy little nutters! We had Primrose from 4 months and she also acted like she'd swallowed a battery. She started calming after a year or so.
Our chilled very lazy English Lop Flopsy coped by taking afternoons off being a husbun and popping into the house that only had room for him. She would sulk on top of the house until he came out to play again....
I found the only thing Primrose was interested in at that age was space to run and the more the better.
Loo rolls stuffed with a treat and hay but that didn't hold her interest for long either and chasing me for nuggets although she was much faster than me so it often turned out to be her waiting at one end of the hallway while I got there much slower.
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Our chilled very lazy English Lop Flopsy coped by taking afternoons off being a husbun and popping into the house that only had room for him. She would sulk on top of the house until he came out to play again....
I found the only thing Primrose was interested in at that age was space to run and the more the better.
Loo rolls stuffed with a treat and hay but that didn't hold her interest for long either and chasing me for nuggets although she was much faster than me so it often turned out to be her waiting at one end of the hallway while I got there much slower.
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