Some advice needed re excess cecals (I think)?

[tonibun]

Which type of hay does she eat? I ask this because a rabbit on another forum was leaving excess cecals and they found it was the Timothy hay which was proving too rich for this particular bunny.

 

[Leannean27]

No improvement as yet

The vet is speaking with a specialist and I'm to ring her on Friday to see what the next step is.

Metacam made no difference, vet said to put her back on hay only until she'd spoke with the specialist at least.

I'm still researching it and believe it to be ISC but again it's generally a symptom of something else.

I do need to get some lino zoobec that's a good idea, it's just when it's over the concrete that it's a pain, it looks like they're kept in squalor

They have homefriends hay (just4pets) and readigrass mainly. They have just finished off some oxbow western Timothy. I've also grown them grass in a large storage box so they can nibble at that free will too

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[Jack's-Jane]

No improvement as yet

The vet is speaking with a specialist and I'm to ring her on Friday to see what the next step is.

Metacam made no difference, vet said to put her back on hay only until she'd spoke with the specialist at least.

I'm still researching it and believe it to be ISC but again it's generally a symptom of something else.

I do need to get some lino zoobec that's a good idea, it's just when it's over the concrete that it's a pain, it looks like they're kept in squalor

They have homefriends hay (just4pets) and readigrass mainly. They have just finished off some oxbow western Timothy. I've also grown them grass in a large storage box so they can nibble at that free will too

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I have only just seen this thread, but the images posted show exactly the same problem one of my Rabbits has. The poo is not all cecotrophs, some of it it is abnormal fecal poo. Do you ever notice any very large oval shaped fecal poos ? They may also be very wet.

My Rabbit cannot have any pellet feed at all. Just one pellet of any kind and it sets his guts off. He passes copious amounts of unformed fecal poo which gets worse and worse. Yet in himself he is fine in that he has no pain, no loss of appetite. He has a very complex problem related to his autonomic nervous system which also causes other symptoms not GI tract related. I am NOT suggesting Luna may have the same thing, but I am just mentioning what dietary changes helped my Rabbit as far as his GI tract symptoms go.

As I mentioned, he has no pellets at all He has a variety of hays, Readigrass, a variety of dried forages and herbs, fresh forage when available, fresh herbs and a variety of fresh veg. On the advice of an Exotics Specialist Vet my Rabbit also has Avipro Plus (now Pro C Professional) daily. Despite much derision from some quarters this product has been very helpful to my Rabbit over the last 3.5 years.

https://www.vetark.co.uk/Shop/Rabbits--other-furries/Health/ProC-Professional.aspx

This diet sheet may give you some useful tips :

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/ar...heets/recommended-diet-for-adult-rabbits/view

Is Luna the little lop Bunny on the left in you Avatar by any chance ?

 

[Graciee]

Hey I've just looked back at those pictures and what Jane said I think is spot on... Because Atticus produces those sometimes... And used to a lot. I will say though that things that worked for Janes bunny may not for Luna I've probably already said this, but I found advice good to try, but sometimes had opposite effects on Atticus, pellets were a big thing to stop, suggested for weeks which I did, but slowly reintroduced them, and he is fine on them now.


I know you cut out pellets for a week, do you think there's any reason to cut them out for a little longer? Not sure if that would be helpful, and maybe cut out readigrass too... Atticus cannot eat readigrass makes him produce loads of that type of poo actually - again though what works for him, may not for poor Luna.

When faffing with diet, did you change hays too at all? x

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[Zoobec]

No improvement as yet

The vet is speaking with a specialist and I'm to ring her on Friday to see what the next step is.

Metacam made no difference, vet said to put her back on hay only until she'd spoke with the specialist at least.

I'm still researching it and believe it to be ISC but again it's generally a symptom of something else.

I do need to get some lino zoobec that's a good idea, it's just when it's over the concrete that it's a pain, it looks like they're kept in squalor

They have homefriends hay (just4pets) and readigrass mainly. They have just finished off some oxbow western Timothy. I've also grown them grass in a large storage box so they can nibble at that free will too

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You could use stable matting laid on top of the concrete, it’s easy to clean :thumb:

 

[Leannean27]

Yes Jane she's the white lop in picture and it's exactly as you say

She's had it since I got her because I remember her doing it before she had any food/ hay from me and I remember thinking aww we'll have to sort her funny tummy out.

I put her on alfalfa and homefriends hay as she was just 8 weeks old, for a month, then swapped out the alfalfa for readigrass and she's had this with the usual homefriends and then a third hay throughout which has been something random as testing which ones they like so they can have a good variety.

I never thought readigrass MIGHT have any adverse effect. She's been on hay and readigrass only for a week again now but yes I intend to do it for longer. Should I omit the readigrass for the time being? I just worry she's not getting the nutrients she needs, could the Pro C cause any effect, I was going to buy it when they're moulting again but if it might help without doing more harm I'll buy it now - though I suppose it's just a case of try it and see...

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[Graciee]

Yes Jane she's the white lop in picture and it's exactly as you say

She's had it since I got her because I remember her doing it before she had any food/ hay from me and I remember thinking aww we'll have to sort her funny tummy out.

I put her on alfalfa and homefriends hay as she was just 8 weeks old, for a month, then swapped out the alfalfa for readigrass and she's had this with the usual homefriends and then a third hay throughout which has been something random as testing which ones they like so they can have a good variety.

I never thought readigrass MIGHT have any adverse effect. She's been on hay and readigrass only for a week again now but yes I intend to do it for longer. Should I omit the readigrass for the time being? I just worry she's not getting the nutrients she needs, could the Pro C cause any effect, I was going to buy it when they're moulting again but if it might help without doing more harm I'll buy it now - though I suppose it's just a case of try it and see...

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Is she fed normal plain Timothy hay at all? If she is I'd just feed this for a week maybe a few and see if it changes things personally, if she isn't I'd get that into her diet, then try that. Others may disagree, but I'd thin it all out, see how it goes, and then reintroduced things singularly to see how they effect her

It took Atticus a month maybe more on just hay before his stomach calmed down. He was diagnosed with megacolon but I'm not actually sure he has this..

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[Leannean27]

I don't think I'm sure what plain Timothy hay is sorry. It's not got Timothy in the name, it's just soft hay and is one all my rabbits have eaten all of its from Holland.

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[Graciee]

I don't think I'm sure what plain Timothy hay is sorry. It's not got Timothy in the name, it's just soft hay and is one all my rabbits have eaten all of its from Holland.

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Oh I just meant not mixed with forage bits, some hay has little weeds and stuff in, which set Atticus off is all

I'm not sure what type of hay that is, but it looks nice just wondering if it could be that type of hay setting her off? Has she had different types before? This may be a dead end just wondered if you'd seen if the hay disagreed with her? x

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[MightyMax]

Is she fed normal plain Timothy hay at all? If she is I'd just feed this for a week maybe a few and see if it changes things personally, if she isn't I'd get that into her diet, then try that. Others may disagree, but I'd thin it all out, see how it goes, and then reintroduced things singularly to see how they effect her

It took Atticus a month maybe more on just hay before his stomach calmed down. He was diagnosed with megacolon but I'm not actually sure he has this..

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I'm glad to hear that Atticus is better than he was Grace

I would concur with you about trying to identify what's happening here and reintroducing things one at a time.

I have a bunny who had a very similar problem and finding the right sort of food was exactly what I needed to do to prevent the issue recurring

 

[Graciee]

I'm glad to hear that Atticus is better than he was Grace

I would concur with you about trying to identify what's happening here and reintroducing things one at a time.

I have a bunny who had a very similar problem and finding the right sort of food was exactly what I needed to do to prevent the issue recurring

Yea he really is other than messy bum sometimes which is minimal, tray is normal other than interesting shapes [emoji38] he just has to have a plain diet, which means Clementine does too, but they now get veggies again, which took a while to work our which ones he tolerates, back at the beginning it was none, so somethings definitely changed.

My point is though it took me months to work it all out and for his stomach to settle down, so it may take time for you got get a handle on what Luna really needs x

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[Jack's-Jane]

I don't think I'm sure what plain Timothy hay is sorry. It's not got Timothy in the name, it's just soft hay and is one all my rabbits have eaten all of its from Holland.

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I just did a search online and all I could find is that it is 'natural hay of the highest quality'

https://www.tiierisch.de/produkt/home-friends-premium-heu-compact


You could contact this company and request a sample pack of their Timothy Hays

https://www.timothyhay.co.uk/

The reason I asked which Rabbit Luna is, is because I believe that some Rabbits with the genetic make up to 'create' a frosty point colouring can have a genetic gut issue, rather like that seen in some Rabbits with a genetic make up leading to a spotted coat colour

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/Mega/mega_en.htm


This is my Rabbit who has similar GI tract symptoms to Luna

Please dont think I am trying to say that Luna's issues are likely to be the same as those affecting my Rabbit, they may be something totally different. I am only sharing my experience with my Rabbit as I know how stressful it can be when trying to establish the cause of an ongoing GI tract problem. It took us ( 3 Vets and me!) well over a year to find a diet and treatment regime that kept my Rabbit stable.

 

[MightyMax]

Yea he really is other than messy bum sometimes which is minimal, tray is normal other than interesting shapes [emoji38] he just has to have a plain diet, which means Clementine does too, but they now get veggies again, which took a while to work our which ones he tolerates, back at the beginning it was none, so somethings definitely changed.

My point is though it took me months to work it all out and for his stomach to settle down, so it may take time for you got get a handle on what Luna really needs x

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Yes I had to fiddle around with my rabbit's diet too, and it means everyone gets a much simpler diet than perhaps other buns do.
They haven't complained to the management - yet!

 

[Graciee]

Yes I had to fiddle around with my rabbit's diet too, and it means everyone gets a much simpler diet than perhaps other buns do.
They haven't complained to the management - yet!

Haha yea just you wait [emoji38]

It's weird because the only forage Atticus and Clementine get is ribwort now, whereas new buns are getting all the forage [emoji38]

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[Leannean27]

I'll contact Timothy hays and see if they'll send a sample. It's very expensive, this hay they're on is currently £6.79 for 5kg and I've always found/ thought the quality to be good especially when it's all eaten.

I doubt it's this hat though as like I said she had the problem when I got her and she came to me on a muesli diet too.

I have had samples from hay and straw and hay experts and they've just never really shown any interest in Timothy or the more straw like hays, they rather liked ings and love burns green oat which I need to reorder now it's back in stock - though I guess I'll just leave that our now too

Interesting about the coloring of rabbits Jane, defo makes you think. I'm just in a bad place with this atm, I've had her 4 months and I feel like I can't help her
The vets don't know what to suggest at this point and I'm worried she'll suddenly become weak or get flystrike or something.

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[Leannean27]

Oh and a question, how could you tell your buns were improving, did they literally stop producing these piles one day or did the consistency/ shape change progressively I.e the cecals in the pile started to look larger and drier?

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[Graciee]

Oh and a question, how could you tell your buns were improving, did they literally stop producing these piles one day or did the consistency/ shape change progressively I.e the cecals in the pile started to look larger and drier?

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Honestly for Atticus atleast it started to go all wrong and things got very bad around Xmas last year, I was in pieces, I was so worried he was just going to stop and he got skinny and it was heart breaking to see. It took months of trial and error to get him producing them less, he also had other types of weird poo and consistencies too. But it started to become less, and as I added things it was clear if they made a difference or not. But I only started testing after he'd just been on timothy hay for about a month. That's when things started to settle. There'd be times when his tray was more normal.


It's really difficult with these kinds of issues she's in great hands with you, and you'll figure this out, it may just take some time xx

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[Leannean27]

It been just over 2 weeks since Luna has been on strictly hay only and I believe she's now having a turn around. She had been doing a few rather large oval cecals which over the last few days have ceased. Her little splodges have become smaller and smaller and yesterday she maybe left 5 singular drops all day!

Last night they were shut up in thr hutch as we were forecast heavy rain (which we never got ) and I went out this morning with slight nervousness but checked everywhere and again just one very small squish the size of my thumb where previously they've been size of my palm.

I have made a slight change with regards to hay. I've cut out the readigrass and cut down on the hay I was buying them and instead bought them a huge hay bale for a bargain £3.50 which they have been able to munch through day and night.

Unfortunately the vet didn't return my call yesterday so I'll need to catch up with her next week but fingers crossed it continues to improve, I'm feeling so much more positive and it's all thanks to those who have helped me thus far!

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[MightyMax]

It been just over 2 weeks since Luna has been on strictly hay only and I believe she's now having a turn around. She had been doing a few rather large oval cecals which over the last few days have ceased. Her little splodges have become smaller and smaller and yesterday she maybe left 5 singular drops all day!

Last night they were shut up in thr hutch as we were forecast heavy rain (which we never got ) and I went out this morning with slight nervousness but checked everywhere and again just one very small squish the size of my thumb where previously they've been size of my palm.

I have made a slight change with regards to hay. I've cut out the readigrass and cut down on the hay I was buying them and instead bought them a huge hay bale for a bargain £3.50 which they have been able to munch through day and night.

Unfortunately the vet didn't return my call yesterday so I'll need to catch up with her next week but fingers crossed it continues to improve, I'm feeling so much more positive and it's all thanks to those who have helped me thus far!

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Good news!

And look at that darling, she reminds me of someone

 

[Omi]

That's fantastic I'm so pleased for you and Luna.