Sawdust

[William]

Some people use the words interchangeably. I know some shavings are also bad cos of the phenols. Don't know about aspen ones though.

Oh, well that might be confusing for newbies... because sawdust is really bad for respiratory system, because of the dust. Which is why chinchilla dust is bad, but chinchilla sand is good.

Aspen is good. Pine and cedar are the bad ones.

 

[clarebear]

Wish I had read this before going and buying another bag of sawdust!

Didn't realise it was so bad for bunnies, thought it was just a pain the way it gets everywhere!

 

[William]

Wish I had read this before going and buying another bag of sawdust!

Didn't realise it was so bad for bunnies, thought it was just a pain the way it gets everywhere!

Is it sawdust or shavings? I'm guessing it doesn't matter either way because someone told me aspen shavings are actually hard to find and expensive in the UK. So yours are probably either pine or cedar (both sawdust and shavings are dangerous with them). But if you can get aspen shavings they're great.

 

[jill]

i use wood shaveing i did use paper and hay but found that the paper got
messed to fast as my half blind bunny always wees every where but the
tray

 

[nessar]

Wish I had read this before going and buying another bag of sawdust!

Didn't realise it was so bad for bunnies, thought it was just a pain the way it gets everywhere!

have you opened it? if not you can take it back.

Dont worry, its only bad long-term so it wont do any harm to use it for another week or so whilst you get something else sorted.

Surprised you're even using it for litter trays - it STINKS once its been peed on! Megazorb is sooo much better for smells and absorbancy.

 

[SisterMoonbeam]

I used to use it... then Fidget developed a very severe liver infection and I very nearly lost her!!

Anyway... While i was trying to figure out what could possibly have caused the infection I came across the multitute of literature with reference to rats developing liver problems due to a toxic byproduct when their urine reacts to the chemicals used to treat woodshavings... whilst skimming this I found a couple of references to rabbits and the same issues arising. Even there is no solid evidence for this to apply to rabbits aswell, i believe this may have been what caused Fidget's liver infection. I instantly stopped using it and she recovered and it has never returned... in any of my buns!

Of course this is just my opinion as there is no conclusive research but it is enough to open my eyes anyway!

 

[William]

I used to use it... then Fidget developed a very severe liver infection and I very nearly lost her!!

Anyway... While i was trying to figure out what could possibly have caused the infection I came across the multitute of literature with reference to rats developing liver problems due to a toxic byproduct when their urine reacts to the chemicals used to treat woodshavings... whilst skimming this I found a couple of references to rabbits and the same issues arising. Even there is no solid evidence for this to apply to rabbits aswell, i believe this may have been what caused Fidget's liver infection. I instantly stopped using it and she recovered and it has never returned... in any of my buns!

Of course this is just my opinion as there is no conclusive research but it is enough to open my eyes anyway!

There's certainly enough conclusive proof that the phenols in pine and cedar cause complications, especially with their respiratory system.

 

[SisterMoonbeam]

There's certainly enough conclusive proof that the phenols in pine and cedar cause complications, especially with their respiratory system.

Yeah, I know the respiratory issues are well documented, I meant the liver problems.

I am convinced it contributed to Fidget's problems... If i had the means I would do the research myself :lol:

 

[Elena]

Oh, well that might be confusing for newbies... because sawdust is really bad for respiratory system, because of the dust. Which is why chinchilla dust is bad, but chinchilla sand is good.

Aspen is good. Pine and cedar are the bad ones.

I don't think it's too much of an issue for newbs as they are both not good. Well not the shavings we get over here anyway!

 

[William]

I don't think it's too much of an issue for newbs as they are both not good. Well not the shavings we get over here anyway!

There are some non-UKers on here though. If everyone says that they're unsafe they wouldn't ever learn that aspen shavings are fine.

 

[happysaz133]

I use woodshavings for my hammies, but none of the others. Considering using it for the bunnies litter tray though.

I call it sawdust though, always have done

 

[allie1904]

I've got my megazorb coming tomorrow Lots of hay always ends up in with whatever goes in the litter tray.

I can't use newspaper as they go digging and eat it.

Looking forward to buying a new litter tray at some point over the weekend to, They've taken to sleeping in there which I wasn't expecting so will be buying a nice big'un

 

[BattleKat]

There are some non-UKers on here though. If everyone says that they're unsafe they wouldn't ever learn that aspen shavings are fine.

I think it would be better for people to think all shavings are bad than for there to be confusion over which kind are acceptable and which aren't leading to people thinking things are safe when they aren't :?

 

[William]

I think it would be better for people to think all shavings are bad than for there to be confusion over which kind are acceptable and which aren't leading to people thinking things are safe when they aren't :?

On my hamster forum, or any small animal forum I'm on, all newbies that are using unsafe sawdust/shavings are informed that sawdust is bad, pine and cedar is bad, aspen shavings good. No confusion really. What I've found is confusing is people on here using shavings/sawdust when it isn't good, leading some to think it is acceptable. Unless they've found aspen shavings, but they never say whether its pine, cedar, or aspen, so.... :?

 

[Barn Yard Bunnies]

I think it would be better for people to think all shavings are bad than for there to be confusion over which kind are acceptable and which aren't leading to people thinking things are safe when they aren't :?

Miss William is an expert on many issues. I think she should do a degree in animal care and welfare, perhaps become a vet.

 

[happysaz133]

Miss William is an expert on many issues. I think she should do a degree in animal care and welfare, perhaps become a vet.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[BattleKat]

On my hamster forum, or any small animal forum I'm on, all newbies that are using unsafe sawdust/shavings are informed that sawdust is bad, pine and cedar is bad, aspen shavings good. No confusion really.

But for british people there would be, because I don't think I've ever seen wood-type specified on a bag of shavings.
In fact, back when I started keeping mice I was researching shavings and found that aspen were fine, so I tried finding out what type of wood different shavings were and couldn't find out.

What I've found is confusing is people on here using shavings/sawdust when it isn't good, leading some to think it is acceptable. Unless they've found aspen shavings, but they never say whether its pine, cedar, or aspen, so.... :?

Usually when it comes up people are told that wood shavings shouldn't be used unless just for small areas (ie, litter trays in a well ventilated shed), and even then there are better alternatives.

When the forum is UK based and mainly UK members I don't think there's any harm in talking as if we're all in the UK. Foreign members should just bear that in mind and double check anything they aren't sure on.
I'm a member of a US mouse forum where mouse keeping varies quite a lot from the UK and I wouldn't expect them to add in extra bits where relevant just for the non-US members.
For instance, in the US it's unacceptable for male mice to be housed together as they will fight, whereas European mice will often happily live in all-male groups. A warning is frequently given not to ever house male mice together and I realise it would confuse the vast majority of the forum to then say that european mice may well be fine. Not to mention many members wouldn't even be aware of that, just as many members of this forum won't be aware of aspen shavings.

 

[William]

Miss William is an expert on many issues. I think she should do a degree in animal care and welfare, perhaps become a vet.

:roll: I haven't said anything to you or insulted you in any way so I don't know what your problem is. If you use them and feel offended, I'm sorry, I'm just stating facts. It's a fact that sawdust, pine shavings, and cedar shavings (or pine/cedar sawdust) is bad. If you do use them (I don't know) then you should stop. They are dangerous. That can't be denied.

And actually I am planning on a degree in that.

ETA: Seriously? Really, what is wrong with you people? Geez. You get upset over talking about shavings? You know, I never said anyone was irresponsible for using them, though they obviously shouldn't, so I don't know why you're getting defensive. :roll:

There clearly is confusion, because a UK member didn't know they were bad either.

 

[happysaz133]

:roll: I haven't said anything to you or insulted you in any way so I don't know what your problem is. If you use them and feel offended, I'm sorry, I'm just stating facts. It's a fact that sawdust, pine shavings, and cedar shavings (or pine/cedar sawdust) is bad. If you do use them (I don't know) then you should stop. They are dangerous. That can't be denied.

And actually I am planning on a degree in that.

They are bad just because you say so? In 24 years of using shavings and sawdust, I have never once had any problems, and that's a lot of animals.

Generalising again. Remember, what affects some animals does not affect others.

 

[William]

:roll: Ugh. No. We have that conversation with newbies on a hamster forum. It also is the same convo "but it doesn't bother my hamsters" :roll: It isn't a generalization. Its true.