Question about VHD & myxo spacing (is a week okay?)

[yaretzi]

Basically there's an offer at my vets for half price vacs.

N&T are due their myxo in about 3 weeks or so, and are due their VHD now.

Would it be fair to give them one vac tomorrow, and one on the 29th or 30th?

Or is that unfair on their immune system? There is nothing wrong with them as far as I am aware of.

If it might be okay, is there any I should get first? Perhaps the myxo as they should already have some immunity to it and perhaps it won't overload the immune system too much, and leave the VHD until a weeks time?

Just wondering if I'm going to be harming them at all. If possible, I'd like to save the £20 - but obviously not if it's going to hurt them.

 

[yaretzi]

P.S feel free to move this or tell me if it's in the wrong section!

 

[GrahamL]

It should be two weeks to allow for a sufficient immune response from their bodies, thats the reason for the 2 week wait, whereas a week may put undue stress on said immune system, leaving them compromised and possibly open to other illnesses.

Personally, for the sake of £20, i wouldn't run the risk

Thats my opinion.

 

[Elena]

It's supposed to be two weeks so I wouldn't go any lower than that personally. I actually like to leave about a month if possible.

 

[Vita]

My vets do them at the same time (though they're happy for you to space them if you want to), but this seems to be very unusual going by posts on here.
The senior vet said that the advice to leave a fortnight was based on old research which had been superseded. He emphasised that he would only want to vaccinate rabbits in good health.

 

[GrahamL]

My vets do them at the same time (though they're happy for you to space them if you want to), but this seems to be very unusual going by posts on here.
The senior vet said that the advice to leave a fortnight was based on old research which had been superseded. He emphasised that he would only want to vaccinate rabbits in good health.

:shock: are you serious?

That's such bad practice !

 

[Jack's-Jane]

:shock: are you serious?

That's such bad practice !

There is going to be a combined vaccine released early next year- ie one vaccination to cover both Myxo and VHD

Personally I am not going to have any of my rabbits vaccinated with the combined vaccine so I just hope the 'old' vaccines will remain available.

 

[Vita]

:shock: are you serious?

That's such bad practice !

I questioned it, and he mentioned the above re. its being based on old research. He's a well respected exotics vet who did a presentation at the recent RWAF conference. But he did also make it clear that he doesn't mind if someone wants to get the jabs done separately, whether because of those concerns, cost or other reasons.

I'm curious about this and might start looking for any journal references about rabbit vaccines, as a lot of the lay info available online *is* older.

When the combined vaccine (due to come out next spring) arrives will many of you be looking to still get the separate vaccines for your buns - particularly those who have existing health problems?

 

[GrahamL]

There is going to be a combined vaccine released early next year- ie one vaccination to cover both Myxo and VHD

Personally I am not going to have any of my rabbits vaccinated with the combined vaccine so I just hope the 'old' vaccines will remain available.

Can't see how that's a good idea and now i'm gonna go drive myself mad by researching it. Double pummel on the old immune system.

Hope they keep them available seperately. That's be horrible.

Maybe one day Ginger will be vaccinated...well, okay, she won't but, hey!

 

[Vita]

Can't see how that's a good idea and now i'm gonna go drive myself mad by researching it. Double pummel on the old immune system.

Would you be able to post links if you find them?

I tried a standard Google web search a couple of times for combined myxomatosis VHD vaccine and there were very few references. An earlier thread in this forum, where Jacks Jane mentioned it, was one of the top results.

 

[GrahamL]

Would you be able to post links if you find them?

I tried a standard Google web search a couple of times for combined myxomatosis VHD vaccine and there were very few references. An earlier thread in this forum, where Jacks Jane mentioned it, was one of the top results.

Sure thing :wave:

Jane will proabbly post everything about it now, you watch :lol:

 

[nessar]

OP, can you ask the vet if you can book and pay in advance now to get the lower prices?

I wonder if the combined vaccine will use the mineral oil that causes the problems with cylap :? I assume it will have been well tested to make sure its safe to have them combined? I heard the new one was going to just be yearly, and the myxi bit of the vaccine is from the actual myxi virus I think? whereas its not now.... I wonder if that will make it effective for an entire year :?


eta - jane come and enlighten us please :wave:

 

[Vita]

I searched again, and it was a little more productive than last time: mostly lots of links to this same paper from 2003 which used combined vaccine on 40 rabbits, none of whom had serious adverse reactions - and they developed satisfactory immunity:
http://www.wrs.upv.es/files/journals/vol11_1lemiere.pdf
The control group was unvaccinated rabbits - not ones receiving single spaced jabs
However, they used the live myxomatosis vaccine that you get in Europe, not the Shope fibroma, so it's not really a direct comparison with the UK situation.

...Had best get on with something else for the moment anyway!

or..

ETA

# A recombinant combined myxomatosis-rabbit haemorrhagic disease vaccine has been produced, using a naturally attenuated field strain myxoma virus modified to give expression of the RHDV major capsid protein (VP60) (together with a "tag" of expression of nucleoprotein from transmissible gastroenteritis virus (TGEV). The vaccine was shown to be protective against VHD and myxomatosis in Oryctolagus cuniculus - European rabbit following either subcutaneous or oral vaccination, with limited horizontal transmission by direct contact or by fleas, producing immunisation of in-contact animals which had not themselves been vaccinated, and increased survival of such rabbits (about 50% protected, compared with no survivors on challenge of unvaccinated rabbits). Re-transmission from those rabbits to further individuals did not provide protection (no or minimal antibodies and no protection against challenge). (J80.74.w2)

* The vaccine was shown to be safe even at 100 times vaccination dose, safe in pregnant and immunosuppressed rabbits (no undesirable effects) and to maintain its attenuated phenotype even after 10 passages in vivo. (J70.19.w1)

# In a field trial on a 34 hectare island populated by about 300 rabbits, subcutaneous vaccination of 76 rabbits with recombinant attenuated myxoma virus expressing RHDV capsid protein VP60 elicited development of specific antibodies against both RHDV and myxomatosis in all the vaccinated rabbits and in about 50% of unvaccinated rabbits, indicating limited horizontal transmission. No adverse effects of the vaccine were detected. (J70.19.w2)

from http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/s/00dis/viral/Rabbit_haemorraghic_disease.htm

The combined vaccine uses the live version, as mentioned by nessar:

http://www.ema.europa.eu/docs/en_GB/document_library/EPAR_-_Summary_for_the_public/veterinary/002004/WC500112961.pdf

Searching as RHD not VHD was way more useful.

I suspect this won't be popular on here, but provided that mine are healthy at the time and don't have anything more complex than mild snuffles in the meantime, I would be happy for them to have the combined jab when it comes out.

 

[The Duchess]

I questioned it, and he mentioned the above re. its being based on old research. He's a well respected exotics vet who did a presentation at the recent RWAF conference. But he did also make it clear that he doesn't mind if someone wants to get the jabs done separately, whether because of those concerns, cost or other reasons.

I'm curious about this and might start looking for any journal references about rabbit vaccines, as a lot of the lay info available online *is* older.

When the combined vaccine (due to come out next spring) arrives will many of you be looking to still get the separate vaccines for your buns - particularly those who have existing health problems?

Please can you tell me which vet he is?

I'd be grateful to know as I'd like to discuss this with all of my own vets.

There is no way I would vaccinate at the same time (with two single vaccines) as there is no point in knocking them sideways with the two. The manufacturers of Lapinject ( I feel sure I read) recommend three weeks post the administration of their vaccine before giving myxo if given that way around.

 

[GrahamL]

Please can you tell me which vet he is?

I'd be grateful to know as I'd like to discuss this with all of my own vets.

There is no way I would vaccinate at the same time as there is no point in knocking them sideways with the two. The manufacturers of Lapinject ( I feel sure I read) recommend three weeks post the administration of their vaccine before giving myxo if given that way around.

I can only think of one recently who were at the RWAF thingy

Richard Saunders, but im sure there were others.

 

[The Duchess]

I can only think of one recently who were at the RWAF thingy

Richard Saunders, but im sure there were others.

Aiden Rafferty and John Chitty were on the schedule too Gray. I don't understand why they may suggest this as it's contrary to manufacturers current recommendations. Unless of course there is something they aren't telling us.

Thing is that the viruses seem to have changed recently (mutation?) with more rabbits succumbing despite vaccination so maybe things have moved on a pace.

 

[Vita]

Duchess, tried to PM you but the inbox was full

 

[prettylupin]

I think it's an interesting issue.

Certainly, human baby vaccines are given together, often 3 or 4 in 1 vaccine/go. Provided the efficacy and safety of the two vaccines used together is acceptable then it might be something to consider in the future. :?

ETA I meant to add, that with human babies it is thought and proven I think that giving combined vaccines is actually MORE effective as the immune system is in a heightened state and more responsive to creating antibodies.

 

[The Duchess]

I think it's an interesting issue.

Certainly, human baby vaccines are given together, often 3 or 4 in 1 vaccine/go. Provided the efficacy and safety of the two vaccines used together is acceptable then it might be something to consider in the future. :?

ETA I meant to add, that with human babies it is thought and proven I think that giving combined vaccines is actually MORE effective as the immune system is in a heightened state and more responsive to creating antibodies.

I can totally see why this might be, but if it's contrary to the manufacturers recommendations then I still would not want to follow advice to the contrary, even from a reputable vet, unless I could see evidence that has made them think differently about the way they administer.

 

[The Duchess]

Duchess, tried to PM you but the inbox was full

Yes, don't use my PM's on here But my e-mail is in my siggy if you dont feel comfortable sharing with us all.