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Prevent the Selling of Long-Haired Breeds
- Thread starter Lazylops
- Start date
hi,
its not always the money but in geanral these days it hard to find a really good pet shop
also some breeds of rabbits r not good for pets especilaly not childern thses breeds r sold to other beeders of privatly sold so the breeder can see how it goes to and if they think they would be able to look after it.
eg-angora cause of there coat
english lop- cause of there extra extra long ears
polish- highly strung and not very cuddly and can have bad temperments even though they r only he same isze as a nethie
older rabbits r usually sold on r given to good homes or if they had fallen totally in love with then they stay
becky
its not always the money but in geanral these days it hard to find a really good pet shop
also some breeds of rabbits r not good for pets especilaly not childern thses breeds r sold to other beeders of privatly sold so the breeder can see how it goes to and if they think they would be able to look after it.
eg-angora cause of there coat
english lop- cause of there extra extra long ears
polish- highly strung and not very cuddly and can have bad temperments even though they r only he same isze as a nethie
older rabbits r usually sold on r given to good homes or if they had fallen totally in love with then they stay
becky
Dont you think that's unkind to the Rabbit to discard it like a used magazine once you've had your use out of it, whether it be showing or breeding?
From what you've just said most ex breeding/showing Angora's will find themselves in pet home's by been given away or sold by breeder's.
So the problem with proper care for Angora's is still there.
Its not the Pet Shop's we need to address here, its the breeder's.
They need to be more responsible for there Rabbit's welfare after its sold or given away. Not just dump an Angora on somebody. Make sure any future owner is well aware of the extra care an Angora need's.
Breeder's would'nt sell these long haired breeds or any Rabbit for that matter to pet shops if they REALLY cared for there Rabbit's welfare.
ANYBODY can buy a Rabbit from a pet shop.
Louise
From what you've just said most ex breeding/showing Angora's will find themselves in pet home's by been given away or sold by breeder's.
So the problem with proper care for Angora's is still there.
Its not the Pet Shop's we need to address here, its the breeder's.
They need to be more responsible for there Rabbit's welfare after its sold or given away. Not just dump an Angora on somebody. Make sure any future owner is well aware of the extra care an Angora need's.
Breeder's would'nt sell these long haired breeds or any Rabbit for that matter to pet shops if they REALLY cared for there Rabbit's welfare.
ANYBODY can buy a Rabbit from a pet shop.
Louise
Becky didn't say that retired rabbits would be sold through petshops or that they would be dumped on anyone. I imagine they make sure that future owners are well aware of the extra care angoras need, after all who better than a breeder to explain the routine of caring for the fur.
Tamsin
Tamsin
bunnyhuggger
Warren Veteran
Louise, I don't believe becky discards her rabbits like a used magazine, I think that's a generalised statement. It's not her fault that some breeders might be irresponsible. What would you rather a breeder did with their stock once they had had their use out of it? Becky is knowledgeable about her rabbits and takes good care of them unlike some backyard breeders we hear about. There have always been breeders and that is NEVER going to change. What we need to think about is how to persuade pet shops to be responsible.
hi,
i didnt mean angora just rabbits in geneal
i dont know what happens to older angoras but most angora breeders make sure what home they go to has my mini cashlop was off a breeder who also bred angors and sed she is very careful how she sells hers too even her cash and sat down with ma and shoed me exactly how to car for it even thought she know me quite well and knows i look after all my bunnies ad she defo not seel to pet shops
no old stock it sold to pets shop as they woudnt take them any way
i know there r some really bad breeders about which makes me really angey :evil: especilly as they make the rest of ul look bad too
becky
i didnt mean angora just rabbits in geneal
i dont know what happens to older angoras but most angora breeders make sure what home they go to has my mini cashlop was off a breeder who also bred angors and sed she is very careful how she sells hers too even her cash and sat down with ma and shoed me exactly how to car for it even thought she know me quite well and knows i look after all my bunnies ad she defo not seel to pet shops
no old stock it sold to pets shop as they woudnt take them any way
i know there r some really bad breeders about which makes me really angey :evil: especilly as they make the rest of ul look bad too
becky
Thats ok, if you spot a mistake you want to correct it after you have made post there is an 'edit' button on the top right of your post. If you click that you can make any changes you want 
Its good point you make about not liking bad breeders either because it gives breeders in general a bad name. Thats why its important we take people as individuals and not make assumptions about things based on just one persons actions
Tam
Its good point you make about not liking bad breeders either because it gives breeders in general a bad name. Thats why its important we take people as individuals and not make assumptions about things based on just one persons actions
Tam
bunnyhuggger
Warren Veteran
That's what some of them do.
hi,
i have never sold any of my older rabbits yet
but we cant keep them all even i f we wanted cause if we do then there is no room for younger rabbits that we could show. the more we keep, the less there handeled and less room for them to run
it not like we like giving them up but is some thing we have to do for the welfare of other rabbits we try to make sure all our rabbits go to good loving homes but that not always the case its not like we can do home checks to ever person who has a rabbit off us
if u get what i mean
becky
i have never sold any of my older rabbits yet
but we cant keep them all even i f we wanted cause if we do then there is no room for younger rabbits that we could show. the more we keep, the less there handeled and less room for them to run
it not like we like giving them up but is some thing we have to do for the welfare of other rabbits we try to make sure all our rabbits go to good loving homes but that not always the case its not like we can do home checks to ever person who has a rabbit off us
if u get what i mean
becky
bunnytales
Mama Doe
Hi Becky - Nice to hear all your views on the issues here.
Can you tell me how you handle the ongoing welfare and support side of things for the bunnies you sell at shows or privately. I understand that you are a younger member of the Rabbit Council so just wondered if they provided any kind of support leaftlets for you to give out regarding Neutering and Vaccinations etc. Also you mention small bunnies being better for children as they are easier to hold - I think we all know that down at heart bunnies are ground loving critters and generally do not like being handled in any event which can make them particularly unsuitable for Children. Another really interesting point you mentioned was regarding Schools - did I get the jist right in that you take your bunnies into the School to see the Children? - this could be a good opportunity for Education for children in the responsibilities of pet ownership rather than just seeing a cuddly bunny which could result in more impulse purchases.
What do you think Becky?
Can you tell me how you handle the ongoing welfare and support side of things for the bunnies you sell at shows or privately. I understand that you are a younger member of the Rabbit Council so just wondered if they provided any kind of support leaftlets for you to give out regarding Neutering and Vaccinations etc. Also you mention small bunnies being better for children as they are easier to hold - I think we all know that down at heart bunnies are ground loving critters and generally do not like being handled in any event which can make them particularly unsuitable for Children. Another really interesting point you mentioned was regarding Schools - did I get the jist right in that you take your bunnies into the School to see the Children? - this could be a good opportunity for Education for children in the responsibilities of pet ownership rather than just seeing a cuddly bunny which could result in more impulse purchases.
What do you think Becky?
**ponders**
You know, things could be changed for the better - virtually overnight - if a certain (mentioning no names here) "Large National Pet Store Chain" stopped selling long-haired rabbits.
Take what happened to me last week: I was in my local small pet shop which only sells supplies, not pets. In comes a woman with two children, looking for just-got-a-new-rabbit items. The pet shop owner, who knows me well (perhaps too well!) was busy, so she called me over saying to the woman: "Ask this lady here - she knows everything about rabbits!"
Food? "We have a bag of that," said the woman, pointing at Burgess Excel. OK, I said: not bad - you could have done a lot worse!
You'll need some of this - I said, pulling down a bag of meadow hay (that pet shop sells the best hay I've ever seen). Wood shavings too, I say - so the woman picks up a small bale of sawdust.... er... ok... Oh, and this too - I said, showing her some Burgess Supa Forage. We'll leave that for now, she said.... "We haven't even got a hutch yet!" giggle giggle. Oh god.
I took her outside to show her the shop's poor efforts in the hutch department. She seemed keen on the £32 one that looked as though it was made of cardboard, and only 3ft x 14". "This is better!" I said, pointing at the £65 one, much better weatherproofed, 4ft long but sadly still only 16" wide. "Oh I can't afford the big one! The smaller one will do," she said..."it's only a dwarf rabbit."
"Where did you get it from?" I asked politely. "Oh the Big Pet Chain Store up the road," she replied... "I just fell in love with it! It's still in the car."
Deep breath. "Then you need to get a hutch NOW!" I said..."The poor bunny has had enough stress for one day... it needs time in its own space as soon as you get it home!" And then, because the pet shop lady was still hovering, "Can I see it?"
We walked round to the car. It was a boiling hot day - at least 80ºF in the shade. In a cardboard box, hot and bothered by the children who had returned to the car to be with their new bunny, was not a dwarf, but a Harlequin Cashmere Lop. "Male or female?" I inquired: "It's a girl, they said," and yes they had got something right! "Did they tell you she's not fully grown yet, she's about half grown, and that she is long haired and will need a LOT of grooming every day?" Did they heck! The bunny also had a large scab beside her eye that nobody had noticed, probably because of the store's habit of mixing all their female rabbits together.
"Now we're out of earshot of the pet shop lady," I said... "Do yourself a favour and go back to the chain store. The hutches they have there are better quality and bigger. Those over there [jerks finger] are, to put it mildly, ****, overpriced and far too small. You will need to spend at least £65 on anything decent anyway."
The lady said she would, and took my phone number in case she had any more questions. Once again I reminded her the bunny needed immediate housing, to get the children to leave it alone, and leave her to settle in for about 2 days without being picked up, pestered or fussed too much.
And as a final parting shot I said: "The grooming is going to be a real hassle if you're not prepared for it. I've seen some horribly messed up long-haired rabbits... some where the hair has matted into a hard shell on the back, like a tortoise, with open sores underneath.... Have a think about that in the car on the way to the Big Chain Store, and if you think you can't keep up the grooming, do the bunny a favour, and get a refund... or exchange her for a short-haired one!"
I haven't heard from her, and I almost dread to call and find out... All I can say for sure is I don't know any breeder who would allow an animal to leave their premises without making sure they had an adequate hutch ready at home, give them details of the breed and the size it will make (at least let them see the parents!) and all relevant information about grooming and the committment it needs.
Big Pet Stores like these proudly boast they they have "their own breeders" who supply them. I doubt they are show breeders... they probably exist only to supply an endless demand for fluffy-loppy-dwarfy types in pretty rainbow colours... some aren't even a particular breed, just a pretty crossbred. I wonder what happens to the "unpretty" ones?
I'm painfully aware that the pet rats these places sell come from commercial breeders [read: rat mills] who sell literally thousands of rats per week to Chain Stores all over the country, most of them younger than a reputable breeder would sell them, certainly unhandled, poorly socialised, often sick, frequently pregnant. Those that don't sell before they start to get too big, or are sick, are returned.... Most of these places also deal in frozen deadstock for reptiles, so that's where the "returns" and the "unpretty" rats go.
Do the breeders these stores get their rabbits from have a similar business ethic & attitude?
I wonder....
You know, things could be changed for the better - virtually overnight - if a certain (mentioning no names here) "Large National Pet Store Chain" stopped selling long-haired rabbits.
Take what happened to me last week: I was in my local small pet shop which only sells supplies, not pets. In comes a woman with two children, looking for just-got-a-new-rabbit items. The pet shop owner, who knows me well (perhaps too well!) was busy, so she called me over saying to the woman: "Ask this lady here - she knows everything about rabbits!"
Food? "We have a bag of that," said the woman, pointing at Burgess Excel. OK, I said: not bad - you could have done a lot worse!
You'll need some of this - I said, pulling down a bag of meadow hay (that pet shop sells the best hay I've ever seen). Wood shavings too, I say - so the woman picks up a small bale of sawdust.... er... ok... Oh, and this too - I said, showing her some Burgess Supa Forage. We'll leave that for now, she said.... "We haven't even got a hutch yet!" giggle giggle. Oh god.
I took her outside to show her the shop's poor efforts in the hutch department. She seemed keen on the £32 one that looked as though it was made of cardboard, and only 3ft x 14". "This is better!" I said, pointing at the £65 one, much better weatherproofed, 4ft long but sadly still only 16" wide. "Oh I can't afford the big one! The smaller one will do," she said..."it's only a dwarf rabbit."
"Where did you get it from?" I asked politely. "Oh the Big Pet Chain Store up the road," she replied... "I just fell in love with it! It's still in the car."
Deep breath. "Then you need to get a hutch NOW!" I said..."The poor bunny has had enough stress for one day... it needs time in its own space as soon as you get it home!" And then, because the pet shop lady was still hovering, "Can I see it?"
We walked round to the car. It was a boiling hot day - at least 80ºF in the shade. In a cardboard box, hot and bothered by the children who had returned to the car to be with their new bunny, was not a dwarf, but a Harlequin Cashmere Lop. "Male or female?" I inquired: "It's a girl, they said," and yes they had got something right! "Did they tell you she's not fully grown yet, she's about half grown, and that she is long haired and will need a LOT of grooming every day?" Did they heck! The bunny also had a large scab beside her eye that nobody had noticed, probably because of the store's habit of mixing all their female rabbits together.
"Now we're out of earshot of the pet shop lady," I said... "Do yourself a favour and go back to the chain store. The hutches they have there are better quality and bigger. Those over there [jerks finger] are, to put it mildly, ****, overpriced and far too small. You will need to spend at least £65 on anything decent anyway."
The lady said she would, and took my phone number in case she had any more questions. Once again I reminded her the bunny needed immediate housing, to get the children to leave it alone, and leave her to settle in for about 2 days without being picked up, pestered or fussed too much.
And as a final parting shot I said: "The grooming is going to be a real hassle if you're not prepared for it. I've seen some horribly messed up long-haired rabbits... some where the hair has matted into a hard shell on the back, like a tortoise, with open sores underneath.... Have a think about that in the car on the way to the Big Chain Store, and if you think you can't keep up the grooming, do the bunny a favour, and get a refund... or exchange her for a short-haired one!"
I haven't heard from her, and I almost dread to call and find out... All I can say for sure is I don't know any breeder who would allow an animal to leave their premises without making sure they had an adequate hutch ready at home, give them details of the breed and the size it will make (at least let them see the parents!) and all relevant information about grooming and the committment it needs.
Big Pet Stores like these proudly boast they they have "their own breeders" who supply them. I doubt they are show breeders... they probably exist only to supply an endless demand for fluffy-loppy-dwarfy types in pretty rainbow colours... some aren't even a particular breed, just a pretty crossbred. I wonder what happens to the "unpretty" ones?
I'm painfully aware that the pet rats these places sell come from commercial breeders [read: rat mills] who sell literally thousands of rats per week to Chain Stores all over the country, most of them younger than a reputable breeder would sell them, certainly unhandled, poorly socialised, often sick, frequently pregnant. Those that don't sell before they start to get too big, or are sick, are returned.... Most of these places also deal in frozen deadstock for reptiles, so that's where the "returns" and the "unpretty" rats go.
Do the breeders these stores get their rabbits from have a similar business ethic & attitude?
I wonder....
Rexy bexy said:
Hi Becky,
Beautiful bunnis you have btw
One thing that does disturb me Becky is that you say
'we cant keep them all even i f we wanted cause if we do then there is no room for younger rabbits that we could show. the more we keep, the less there handeled and less room for them to run'
obviously you would of had a particular 'show' rabbit for some time and would have built quite a bond with that rabbit and vice versa, I don't understand how that bond can all of a sudden be lessend to a point where you give the rabbit away, albeit to a good home or not !! We wouldn't do that to one of our children so why a rabbit ??
You also say that you can't home check every home that takes a rabbit off you....why not ? In my eyes I feel that is the least you could do for a animal that has given you his trust and love, should you give that back the best you can ?
Steph
hi bunnytales,
i try to sell as many privatly but if i cant, i make sure they go to a good pet shop.
iv had alot of support from the brc and when i first joined i got a large folder full of information an if i have a problem there r many members of the brc willing to help me. Never thought of neutering my rabbits cause i breed from them.
when i take the bunnies to school i tell them how they should look after a bunny propely and all the care and work it takes to look after one i also make wrok sheets for them to do and write abit about them but cant do that much for 4-6 year olds but i tell them as much as i can take in and them they ask me questions
becky
i try to sell as many privatly but if i cant, i make sure they go to a good pet shop.
iv had alot of support from the brc and when i first joined i got a large folder full of information an if i have a problem there r many members of the brc willing to help me. Never thought of neutering my rabbits cause i breed from them.
when i take the bunnies to school i tell them how they should look after a bunny propely and all the care and work it takes to look after one i also make wrok sheets for them to do and write abit about them but cant do that much for 4-6 year olds but i tell them as much as i can take in and them they ask me questions
becky
cashmincal
Wise Old Thumper
Hiya there
I thought I'd also join in this conversation. As you can see I breed and show Cashmere Lops and I strongly agree that Cashmere Lops and other longcoated breeds shouldn't go to petshops as they do need a knowlegleable home. The National Cashmere Lop Club also advise this. The National Cashmere Lop has grooming leaflets that explain the grooming that needs to be given. I don't breed many litters of Cashmere Lops because of this issue.
Clare
I thought I'd also join in this conversation. As you can see I breed and show Cashmere Lops and I strongly agree that Cashmere Lops and other longcoated breeds shouldn't go to petshops as they do need a knowlegleable home. The National Cashmere Lop Club also advise this. The National Cashmere Lop has grooming leaflets that explain the grooming that needs to be given. I don't breed many litters of Cashmere Lops because of this issue.
Clare
It seems then that we are largely in agreement that petshops shouldn't sell the long haired breeds. It also seems that the responsible breeders are not selling them through petshops so the problem presumably lies with places like P@H that use their own breeders who are producing cute fluffy rabbits to attract sales.
So the question is how to we persuade petshops to refuse to sell long haired rabbits?
Tam
So the question is how to we persuade petshops to refuse to sell long haired rabbits?
Tam
hi Stephanie,
yes i do have bonds with all my rabbits thats why i still have all my older bunnies
yes i have many show bunnies
but many breeders have lots of bunnies and cant bond like people who only have afew pet ones, so is easier to let go of them
we would like to house check every one who has a bunnie from us, but we do not have the power to like the rspca, nor the time to either.
The best we can do is give as much info as possible and make sure its gone to the right owner
bceky
yes i do have bonds with all my rabbits thats why i still have all my older bunnies
yes i have many show bunnies
but many breeders have lots of bunnies and cant bond like people who only have afew pet ones, so is easier to let go of them
we would like to house check every one who has a bunnie from us, but we do not have the power to like the rspca, nor the time to either.
The best we can do is give as much info as possible and make sure its gone to the right owner
bceky
Comet Stud
New Kit
Hello all,
I am aslo a member of the BRC. I agree with you all that long haired breeds should not be sold in a typical high st pet store, as they just do not give enough info on the rabbit because usually they dont know enough info.
I dont think its fair saying that exhibitors pass on the adult stock without a care as this is unfare. Not all breeders do pass on there adults, they just retire them and keep them. But for others this is not possible and is usually better for the rabbit to be rehomed as they will get alot more attention. I have not yet parted with any adult stock as i am too attactched to mine, but one day i may have to and it will be very very hard!
I show for pleasure, it is my hobby and it takes up all my spare time. I spend atleast 2-3 hours with my bunnies each day aswell as having a full time job. So there is no reason why any one should think exhibitors are not good owners, as we are and we do care for our stock like any one else would!
Ex show rabbits are usually very good pets anyway as they are extremely used to being handled, so if was a mother wanting to buy a pet rabbit for my child i would be pleased with and ex show bun as you would know i was tame.
Emma
I am aslo a member of the BRC. I agree with you all that long haired breeds should not be sold in a typical high st pet store, as they just do not give enough info on the rabbit because usually they dont know enough info.
I dont think its fair saying that exhibitors pass on the adult stock without a care as this is unfare. Not all breeders do pass on there adults, they just retire them and keep them. But for others this is not possible and is usually better for the rabbit to be rehomed as they will get alot more attention. I have not yet parted with any adult stock as i am too attactched to mine, but one day i may have to and it will be very very hard!
I show for pleasure, it is my hobby and it takes up all my spare time. I spend atleast 2-3 hours with my bunnies each day aswell as having a full time job. So there is no reason why any one should think exhibitors are not good owners, as we are and we do care for our stock like any one else would!
Ex show rabbits are usually very good pets anyway as they are extremely used to being handled, so if was a mother wanting to buy a pet rabbit for my child i would be pleased with and ex show bun as you would know i was tame.
Emma
Thank you Emma, you have raised some interesting points, you have helped clear up one misconception, that rabbits used for showing are not loved and cherished pets.
They can indeed be BOTH....good point too, that show rabbits are handled from very small bunnies and regularly too, so they can make for great pets who are not shy of human contact and interactions.
Many bunnies brought elsewhere have not been handled from youngsters and end up in homes with people who do not know how to help "socialise" them properly...the humans and bunnies fail to "gel" and some of the bunnies end up in Rescues, I know, as several in our Sanctuary have arrived here for exactly these reasons.
They can indeed be BOTH....good point too, that show rabbits are handled from very small bunnies and regularly too, so they can make for great pets who are not shy of human contact and interactions.
Many bunnies brought elsewhere have not been handled from youngsters and end up in homes with people who do not know how to help "socialise" them properly...the humans and bunnies fail to "gel" and some of the bunnies end up in Rescues, I know, as several in our Sanctuary have arrived here for exactly these reasons.
