Potential fighting?

[cheriseru]

Hiya all,

I've noticed some strange behaviour today so far Gaia has settled in perfectly with the boys. They groom each other and often cuddle together, never shown any anger or unhappiness or anything.
But this morning a bit after breakfast I was on the pc and from behind me heard lotsa running and scurrying, so it was Athie and Gaia. Basically bodies against each other but heads at opposite ends, and they were going in circles. To be honest looked more like Gaia was trying to get to Athie's bum and Athie was just trying to avoid.
I got up and interrupted them by picking Gaia up, then noticed Athie looked a bit tense but then when he hopped off he did a head binky. After I put Gaia back down it happened again a few mins later, I separated them again and Athie ran off to the room. Happened a 3rd time in the bedroom under the bed and Athie came charging out and chilled in the living room with me a bit.
They all then a bit later were snoozing together under the bed peacefully.
Just now though, Gaia and Zeus were grooming each other but then all of a sudden they started doing the circle thing Zeus though seemed more to show dominance than trying to get away and he did end up him humping her head which seemed to stop her and she just stayed down. Zeus went off to under the bed.
But then Gaia tried with Athie and that sent Aths running to the lounge and heard him go on the couch where Gaia can't yet go.

Should I be worried about Athie and Gaia? Is it just usual hierarchy figuring? Should I step in or let them sort it? Is Gaia bullying Athie? I've never seen this behaviour before, Athie and Zeus never did anything like it.

Sent from my SM-A715F using Tapatalk

 

[Omi]

How old is Gaia now? It sounds as though she could be approaching puberty with hormones starting to rise.

Bum-nipping seems to be a thing with young Does, as Tui used to do it a lot to Tethra when she was a similar age and before she was spayed. Tethra didn't like it much and used to move away, only for her to try to do it again. It sort of became like a game.

I think if I were you I would observe all three very carefully over the next couple of days, especially for signs of circling. The nipping is probably harmless in itself, but there could be aggression if Athie or Zeus retaliate. The heirarchy issue will probably need to be re-sorted between them after she reaches puberty and you will need to be on the alert to make sure that goes smoothly.

 

[cheriseru]

How old is Gaia now? It sounds as though she could be approaching puberty with hormones starting to rise.

Bum-nipping seems to be a thing with young Does, as Tui used to do it a lot to Tethra when she was a similar age and before she was spayed. Tethra didn't like it much and used to move away, only for her to try to do it again. It sort of became like a game.

I think if I were you I would observe all three very carefully over the next couple of days, especially for signs of circling. The nipping is probably harmless in itself, but there could be aggression if Athie or Zeus retaliate. The heirarchy issue will probably need to be re-sorted between them after she reaches puberty and you will need to be on the alert to make sure that goes smoothly.

From estimates she's around 10weeks now. Did wonder if the change could be hormones coming in. Aww poor Tehtra, Athie can relate. I'm just worried about Athie, he really seems to not like it and get look utterly sad and harassed Zeus seems to end it quite quickly and get her to just stop and lay head on ground infront him.

What exactly does circling look like? Because Gaia and Athie has been spinning round each other with her trying to bite his bottom and him circling to move away. This seems to go for around 20-30secs before Athie would bolt off and she'd follow. Doesn't appear that Athie is retaliating but more trying to avoid, but I know he would if he got really annoyed.

They don't constantly do it, I mean they do it on and off for about 30mins and then go their separate way or cuddle down together. I did however find a tuft of Athie fluff this afternoon

Sent from my SM-A715F using Tapatalk

 

[Omi]

Circling is when the two bunnies move in a tight circle and it can lead to a fight. Probably best to have a look on You Tube. I'm sure there will be videos of circling bunnies.

Zeus seems more able to deal with the situation than Athie, doesn't he. I would just keep a close watch on them. Hopefully they will sort things out for themselves.

 

[cheriseru]

Circling is when the two bunnies move in a tight circle and it can lead to a fight. Probably best to have a look on You Tube. I'm sure there will be videos of circling bunnies.

Zeus seems more able to deal with the situation than Athie, doesn't he. I would just keep a close watch on them. Hopefully they will sort things out for themselves.

Ah thanks, yup Athie and Gaia are circling

Yea Zeus seems unbothered by everything. Just watched Zeus in loaf and Gaia going round him and lick his ears and forehead and then tried to mount his hip but Zeus just sat up and hopped a hop away turned around and looked at Gaia which made her fall flat infront him, he laid down and she laid down next to him. So I'm definitely not worried about Zeus, ha he has top bunny status and nothing will bother him [emoji1787]

Should I keep interfering immediatly whenever I see Gaia and Athie circling or should I just watch and interfere if it seems angry?

Sent from my SM-A715F using Tapatalk

 

[Omi]

Difficult to advise about when to intervene without witnessing it, but certainly intervene if it becomes angry. I think if you monitor it very closely, you will get a feel about when to split them up. I would tend to err on the side of caution, if I was worried, as rabbits can injure each other quite nastily when fighting. Hopefully you will be able to keep them together without any serious issues until she is old enough to be spayed.

 

[cheriseru]

Difficult to advise about when to intervene without witnessing it, but certainly intervene if it becomes angry. I think if you monitor it very closely, you will get a feel about when to split them up. I would tend to err on the side of caution, if I was worried, as rabbits can injure each other quite nastily when fighting. Hopefully you will be able to keep them together without any serious issues until she is old enough to be spayed.

Thanks for the advice I considered trying to record but thought better to intervene
I'll keep an eye and stay near thanks. They seem to be more chilled tonight and I'm getting more used to the change in behaviour.
Still love Zeus's unphasedness. Hope Gaia accepts her place as 3rd bunny soon so Athie can get some peace again. Thanks again for your help

Sent from my SM-A715F using Tapatalk

 

[cheriseru]

This is what confuses me even more, they're all lovey cuddling now [emoji848] bunnies are weird!

Sent from my SM-A715F using Tapatalk

 

[CarelessSquid07]

It sounds like she's flexing her muscles a bit ready for those hormone surges! At the moment it looks like Zues is firm in his spot but Athie isn't.

Have you got a separate area planned out for her recovery from her spay? If she persists with upsetting Athie you may have to separate for a longer period.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

 

[cheriseru]

It sounds like she's flexing her muscles a bit ready for those hormone surges! At the moment it looks like Zues is firm in his spot but Athie isn't.

Have you got a separate area planned out for her recovery from her spay? If she persists with upsetting Athie you may have to separate for a longer period.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

Ha she needs to stop flexing and just keep her tiny fluffy butt calm! She's too tiny to be flexing anything [emoji1787] Yea Zeus is definitely secure, she doesn't even try it with him anymore. He sat on her head a little while ago [emoji1787] all I could see was little Gaia ears under his bottom while he groomed his side [emoji1787]
To be honest I haven't decided if I'm going to get her spayed, was going to see how she is when she's the right age and then decide. She's only about 10 weeks now and my vet said she should be at least minimum 16+weeks to get spayed because of the risks and because she's so tiny and she won't do it until she's the right weight either.
So I don't have anything setup but have a pen that I can setup if need be.
Sadly I think if it becomes too bad between Athie and Gaia I'll probably have to consider rehoming her because my place isn't big enough to fairly keep them separated for longer than a few days, really hope it doesn't get to that though.
Seeing this gives me hope that they'll be OK and Zeus will sort them [emoji4]

Sent from my SM-A715F using Tapatalk

 

[CarelessSquid07]

Oh I wouldn't advise plan to keep an unspayed female with the boys.

Aside from the increaded cancer risk for her she will just bother them incessantly. And destroy the house......in my experience girls are way more destructive even with spaying.

Agree with the vet though, she will need to be a good weight to reduce the risks for her.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

 

[InspectorMorse]

She looks to weigh more than 1kg already which is the minimum weight for neutering. So by 16. Weeks she should be fine to spay. I would never leave a Doe entire as the risks of Uterine Cancer by the age of 5 are over 80% My Vet has seen does as young as 2 with an abnormal uterus when spayed

Behaviourally a spayed Doe will be prone to instigating fights with other Rabbits. This could also cause fights between Athie and Zeus.

It really is not worth the risk to try to keep them all together unless you get Gaia spayed. Even after surgery it will be a good 6-8 weeks until hormone spikes settle down. So I would be prepared to separate her from the boys any time from now as if a big fight kicks off you are unlikely to ever get them all back together again.

 

[cheriseru]

Oh I wouldn't advise plan to keep an unspayed female with the boys.

Aside from the increaded cancer risk for her she will just bother them incessantly. And destroy the house......in my experience girls are way more destructive even with spaying.

Agree with the vet though, she will need to be a good weight to reduce the risks for her.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

Oh dear can't destroy the house I'm renting [emoji24] and poor boys.

Sounds like I'm going to have to get her spayed as soon as

She looks to weigh more than 1kg already which is the minimum weight for neutering. So by 16. Weeks she should be fine to spay. I would never leave a Doe entire as the risks of Uterine Cancer by the age of 5 are over 80% My Vet has seen does as young as 2 with an abnormal uterus when spayed

Behaviourally a spayed Doe will be prone to instigating fights with other Rabbits. This could also cause fights between Athie and Zeus.

It really is not worth the risk to try to keep them all together unless you get Gaia spayed. Even after surgery it will be a good 6-8 weeks until hormone spikes settle down. So I would be prepared to separate her from the boys any time from now as if a big fight kicks off you are unlikely to ever get them all back together again.

Oh wow didn't know the risk is that high! she's just under 1kg now, she seemed to double in weight quickly and then just hit a plateau, am actually calling the vet next week to checkin about weight and discuss if she's still not picked up any.

I definitely don't want fights between the boys

Think I'm going to have to figure out how to fairly separate them for a long period. I could potentially split the lounge in half which gives her decent space to run around and won't upset the boys by taking their 2 favourite snoozing spots away.

There seems to be a bit of a dip in her hormones yesterday and today or she's just tired out from chasing Athie around. There was much more cuddling today and only a handful of chasing moments. But still keeping a close eye


Sent from my SM-A715F using Tapatalk