Over-Vaccinating our bunnies??

[halfpenny]

I do

So do all my vets.

 

[LurcherGirl]

So my question is this.........if the above applies to humans, dogs and cats, why do we not apply the same rules to our bunnies? After all, the myxi vaccine is a modified pox virus. Why would it not create 'memory T-cells' in our rabbits in exactly the same way it does in dogs or humans? And the same goes for VHD?

I do apply the same to my bunnies. My bunnies get a myxi and vhd vaccination once when I get them (or by the rescue) and that's it. None of my bunnies are now up to date with vaccinations and I have no intention of re-vaccinating them. Whether it is linked or not, but none of my bunnies (and they are all rescues, so of unknown background) have on-going health issues and they don't have GI problems (unless there is an underlying problem). Sometimes when I read on here how much people struggle with their rabbits' health, I am wondering whether it has anything to do with overvaccinating (and keeping their environment almost sterile so they can't develop immunity against stuff).

My dogs on the other hand: 2 are titre tested every year as they already have auto-immune problems. So far, the titres have always come back as fine and they haven't needed re-vaccination (except for lepto, which they get yearly). The other two are vaccinated according to the three-yearly vaccination protocol that many vets use now and some vaccine manufacturers now recommend.

Vera

 

[Mackers]

I do apply the same to my bunnies. My bunnies get a myxi and vhd vaccination once when I get them (or by the rescue) and that's it. None of my bunnies are now up to date with vaccinations and I have no intention of re-vaccinating them. Whether it is linked or not, but none of my bunnies (and they are all rescues, so of unknown background) have on-going health issues and they don't have GI problems (unless there is an underlying problem). Sometimes when I read on here how much people struggle with their rabbits' health, I am wondering whether it has anything to do with overvaccinating (and keeping their environment almost sterile so they can't develop immunity against stuff).

My dogs on the other hand: 2 are titre tested every year as they already have auto-immune problems. So far, the titres have always come back as fine and they haven't needed re-vaccination (except for lepto, which they get yearly). The other two are vaccinated according to the three-yearly vaccination protocol that many vets use now and some vaccine manufacturers now recommend.

Vera

Thanks - that's very interesting! I don't even bother with the lepto vaccine since it only covers about 3 strains of the disease and there are numerous ones that they can become infected with. Unfortunately though, as I want to board my bunnies during the summer holidays, I have to vaccinate.

I'm with you on the 'sterile environment' thing too. Although I clean out litter trays every two days, I almost never disinfect them and the only time I've ever disinfected the living quarters was when one of the buns had mites.

I'm a firm believer in exposing yourself to germs in order to stay healthy. I never wash fruit or veg before I eat it - as my grandmother used to say "you've got to eat a peck of dirt before you die" . I don't go around bleaching every household surface, I eat food that's past (and sometimes well past) its sell by/use by date:roll:, my dogs lick my face, I don't wash my hands after I've petted any of the animals and I've even been known to eat a tasty morsel that my dog's spat out - especially if it's something I didn't particularly want to share with them in the first place and I grudgingly gave them a piece :lol: I have to say that I'm pretty healthy - I almost never get coughs and colds and I don't suffer from any allergies etc. I'm quite sure many of you may find my habbits disgusting but as they say on the TV......."Face - Bovvered??" :lol::lol:

 

[Santa]

I think we're in danger of reading too much cause and effect here. Of course we hear of lots of poorly buns here, it's a forum full of rabbit enthusiasts and most people vaccinate. I could say that i have 3 very healthy 6 year old buns who are vaccinated every 6 months therefore vac must make them healthy. I'm sure vac may not always be appropriate for all buns but i think it's very dangerous ground to assume your buns are healthy because you don't vac.

 

[Pegasys]

Hello, I am sort of looking into this for my honours project. I am looking at how vaccinating rabbits affects their lifespan. The results should be interesting

 

[marie_kubiak]

marie while you are here it would be interesting to get a vets opinion on this, do you know if its been found to cause problems in rabbits? now iv always had my rabbits vaccinated but we used to do it annually then we realised the area was high risk and do the myxi every 6 months i too wonder about the stress etc of vet trip and injections and any future harm it may cause but having had a bun contract myxi within 6 months of the vaccination i truely believe without the vaccs id be putting her to sleep...she is still going strong at over 11years now and no i have not stopped vaccinating. just wondered a vets opinion! :wave:

Experiments have been carried out to prove intervals - vaccinated rabbits have been challenged with live myxoma virus at varying intervals post-vaccination. This showed that protection against myxomatosis wanes after 6 months and so boosters are needed at this frequency to maintain immunity. I can't immediately think of an identical study for calici virus but don't have my laptop with me that has my stash of papers.
I see very very few auto-immune diseases in rabbits (this is alleged to be the most common disease caused by vaccinations, as repeated vaccines are suggested to cause over stimulation). Those that I have seen have invariably been related to neoplasia - usually thymomas. The vast majority of my patients are vaccinated as recommended by data sheets and I am comfortable that I have not seen any long-term diseases that I could attribute to this system and no abnormalities in immune system cells/function are seen.
Side effects seen have been short-term and generally relate to Cylap vaccination which we have since switched to Lapinject.
I am very much in favour of the recommended protocols (myxi every 6 months, VHD annually) as it does prevent fatal disease effectively and I have seen no evidence to show that there are any adverse reactions whatsoever.
As an aside, antibody titres do not necessarily prove immunity -most viral infections rely on cell mediated immunity which cannot be measured.

 

[Santa]

Thanks marie, that's really interesting.

 

[louise and Gus]

Aside from the vaccination I also think it is a good chance to get your buns checked out by the vet every six months Also when I adopted them I signed an agreement to keep their vaccinations up to date. I would never not vaccinate my buns.

 

[Mackers]

Thank you Marie. Your post has certainly reassured me that I'm doing the right thing by vaccinating every six months. And I also agree that it's always a good thing to get a bunny 'MOT' every six months as well.

 

[nursecroft]

Experiments have been carried out to prove intervals - vaccinated rabbits have been challenged with live myxoma virus at varying intervals post-vaccination. This showed that protection against myxomatosis wanes after 6 months and so boosters are needed at this frequency to maintain immunity. I can't immediately think of an identical study for calici virus but don't have my laptop with me that has my stash of papers.
I see very very few auto-immune diseases in rabbits (this is alleged to be the most common disease caused by vaccinations, as repeated vaccines are suggested to cause over stimulation). Those that I have seen have invariably been related to neoplasia - usually thymomas. The vast majority of my patients are vaccinated as recommended by data sheets and I am comfortable that I have not seen any long-term diseases that I could attribute to this system and no abnormalities in immune system cells/function are seen.
Side effects seen have been short-term and generally relate to Cylap vaccination which we have since switched to Lapinject.
I am very much in favour of the recommended protocols (myxi every 6 months, VHD annually) as it does prevent fatal disease effectively and I have seen no evidence to show that there are any adverse reactions whatsoever.
As an aside, antibody titres do not necessarily prove immunity -most viral infections rely on cell mediated immunity which cannot be measured.

Great post, i wouldnt risk not vacc my bun and as already said i liked them to be checked over every 6 months especially as buns are very good at hiding potential problems.

 

[Troublesome Two]

But my thread was never about saving the cost of the vaccination. It was always about 'are we doing more harm to our buns by vaccinating them so often than by only vaccinating once or twice during their lifetime?' Playing the 'if you love your bun' game is also very dangerous. We ALL love our buns and always do what we believe it best for them but it's because of my love for my buns that I question if regular vaccination is actually in their best interests.

Believe me, if a 'one-off lifetime immunity' vaccine cost £1000 and a '6 monthly but could cause life-threatening side effects vaccine' cost 50p, I'd pay the £1000 and go for the vaccine that I thought would cause least harm to my buns.

I apologise for that. Guess in a sense 'chinese whispers' in that i lost track of what the orignal thread started as so shouldnt have mentioned cost as a reason. But looking through some of the posts it is made out that we are only advised because people can make money out of us.

That they do, its a mix of the love of the job whilst trying to make money. Or all work would be done at cost price but they advise different vaccines for very good reasons.

Copying other comments the way forward is simple.

1 - administer vacines as recommended to protect against vile diseases.
2 - dont be afraid of letting them get dirty and exposed to everyday dirt. I used to clean them thoroughly every week but now every 2 weeks/ 3 at a push. (litter and poo picked out everyday).

Overcleaning only leaves the more resisitant bugs and bacteria behind that we struggle with after

Same applies to child etc.

 

[SarahP]

I have to say that I don't agree we are over-cleaning our animals (rabbits or other small animals), due to the fact that they eat and poo in close proximity. Plus, due to the fact that E Cuniculi and coccidiosis spores are so resistant, I'd always prefer to disinfect thoroughly on a weekly basis, with twice daily litter tray empties. Over-cleaning would surely be a daily disinfect. I don't think a weekly disinfect is on the same level with the sterile environment babies are encouraged to be kept in.

 

[Jack's-Jane]

All mine are cleaned out daily :?

 

[Mackers]

I apologise for that. Guess in a sense 'chinese whispers' in that i lost track of what the orignal thread started as so shouldnt have mentioned cost as a reason. But looking through some of the posts it is made out that we are only advised because people can make money out of us.

No worries! I didn't think you were 'having a go' anyway - I just wanted to make it clear that it was never about the cost of the vaccine - just about me being an old worry-guts and wondering if what I was doing was right.

 

[SarahP]

All mine are cleaned out daily :?

Disinfected or just emptying everything out?

 

[DemiS]

I try not to disinfect the hutches, but I tend to more in summer when the flies come

 

[angeleyes]

I sweep and 'tidy each day and fully disinfect and hose down on the weekend, i wouldn't have time to do the full clean every day!
It is interesting about the vaccinations, persoanlly i never had any vacs as a child and have never had anything wrong with me (touch wood) but did have to have a tetnus recently when i got a rusty nail in my finger and my arm went purple and blew up like a balloon, the hospital wouldn't believe i had never had a vac in my life and made me call my mum (I am 25 FGS!)
On the other hand i would never take the risk and not vac my buns, it would be awful if one of them caught it because i din't get their vacs done

 

[Troublesome Two]

I do disinfect over winter but every other main clean. Revert to every clean in summer like you as flies and bacteria obviously thrive more.

It takes 20 - 30 mins every morn to clean them out snow / rain or sun. Disinfecting each time now seems OTT as long as checking bums etc are dirt free

 

[Jack's-Jane]

Disinfected or just emptying everything out?

The litter trays are all disinfected daily. I use Milton.

 

[LurcherGirl]

I think we're in danger of reading too much cause and effect here. Of course we hear of lots of poorly buns here, it's a forum full of rabbit enthusiasts and most people vaccinate. I could say that i have 3 very healthy 6 year old buns who are vaccinated every 6 months therefore vac must make them healthy. I'm sure vac may not always be appropriate for all buns but i think it's very dangerous ground to assume your buns are healthy because you don't vac.

I am certainly not saying that my bunnies are healthy BECAUSE they are not vaccinated! I have had sick bunnies and unexplained deaths too (though not GI problems unless there were serious underlying issues), so no miracles happening here! But what I am saying is that there is more and more evidence that over-vaccination can have a negative effect on an animal's health. I know a lot about it in dogs because I have two dogs with autoimmune problems, there is no reason why it should be any different in rabbits.

I am NOT saying to anyone not to vaccinate their rabbits (vaccinating and over-vaccinating are two different things), like I would never suggest to anyone not to vaccinate their dogs! But what I am saying is that it's worth thinking about and it should be an informed decision! If you decide that in your circumstances and according to your oppinion/experience you want to vaccinate your rabbits every six months, then I have absolutely no problem with that! But I have the same right to an opinion and decision too - and according to my opinion and experience I have decided not to vaccinate after their initial shots! (This decision might be different though if I lived in the country side surrounded by wild myxi rabbits and they were outdoor rabbits rather than the current scenario of indoor rabbits in the middle of London literally miles away from wild rabbits).

Vera