Mucky bums! Please help a novice bunny owner!

[tinker81]

Hi all,

This is my first post as I am a new bunny mum of two lovely bunnies who are around 15 weeks old. We have had them for a month now, and they are very lovely. However, since they came, we have found quite a lot of left over cecotropes every morning in the cage. They are doing them at night mainly, and some in the afternoons. I am struggling with the amount of cleaning this is leading to - we are having to clean the cage out everyday, and I am having to clean their behinds and tummy fur quite regularly which is not helping them bond to me at all as they are not keen on being handled just yet Today one of them is in such a mess, with very messy hocks, quite a few cecotropes matted into her fur, and general 'poo-ey' discolouration around her backside and tummy. I have manage to get the mats out now, but she was really upset about it, and didn't want to stay on my lap long enough to clean off the rest of the mucky bits. I am also finding it really hard to get her hocks clean, as the mess seems to cling on to the short fur there. I really want to get this sorted before the weather gets warmer and the flies come out. They are indoor bunnies.

I have done some reading up and think it may be diet related - when they arrived at 10 weeks old they were on Wagg, veg and hay. Over the space of 7-14 days I weaned them off the Wagg and onto Burgess Junior, with plenty of meadow hay. After they were 12 weeks I have tried the odd bit of veg but not regularly. I was initially giving unlimited pellets when we got them, but have now reduced to one handful between them morning and night. Unfortunately, the cecotropes are still coming. I don't know what to do next. I am thinking of cutting the evening pellets, but as they are so young I am a bit worried they may lose weight or not grow well.

Any help or advice would be really appreciated, with the diet issues, or with tips on how to clean the fur without minimal stress for bunny. Thanks in advance.

 

[fruitandnutcake]

At 15 weeks old, you could probably try changing over to adult food which is less protein than junior pellets I think. the other option is to try them on another brand of pellets. Some buns just don't get on with Burgess Excel and may produce less cecotropes on another brand.

I think someone mentioned cornflour before to help clean buns...but can't remember who it was!

 

[parsnipbun]

I would try and gradually change them to Science Selective - some buns just dont get on with Burgess. Pain I know as you have just got them onto Burgess!

 

[lucy24]

personally i would reduce the pellets further, since they are only meant as a supplement. i fed mine about half an egg cup per day per rabbit. it might also be they are still settling in. hopefully the calmer they feel the better it will be too. all the best:wave:

 

[Babsie]

I would take them to the vet to be checked over.

As for diet the aim is to very gradually get the pellets down to an eggcupful each a day - but I'm not sure at what age you should start reducing to this amount.

Hay is the most important part of the diet (80-90%) so if they are eating less than this I suggest you try different types to encourage hay-eating, which should help their digestive systems (and good for teeth). HayforPets do a sample pack - it's free, just pay postage.

 

[Neleh]

My bun has mucky bum issues since being ill, I find I have to be really carefull about how much greens and pellets he has. Poor thing climbs upnhis cage front at feeding times despite unlimited hey, makes us feel so guilty but its better thsn him getting in a mess.

 

[Dustyrabbit]

It's gonna look like you are getting lots of different answers but.....
if they are getting that mucky I would keep them to hay and water only for a few days until there are no caceotropes. Then you can gradually reintroduce pellets in a tiny quantity, gradually building to an eggcupful each a day. Excell pellets are well known for this problem so you may wish to change to Science Selective or you may find that the excell are tolerated in a smaller quantity.

What's their accommodation like? If it is small they will have trouble keeping out of the mess.

 

[bethepoet]

As everyone has said, I'd reduce the pellets even further until they're receiving a small handful between them once a day, and also experiment with different combinations of pellets and hay. Annoying, I know, but much like a mysterious allergy it's all about finding what is causing the excess cecotrophs, and cutting that out.

Have you had them weighed at all? A common cause of uneaten poo is being overweight and unable to reach the bum, or feeling lethargic and not bothering to do it.

As for cleaning, I know you can get wipes to use, although I've never tried them. I'd also cut any long fur the poo is sticking to.

 

[Neleh]

In regards to wipes, don't go there! It can make them really sore on a daily basis, warm water and cotton wool does it for me. Occasionally a butt bathe is required, tho these are stressful for my bun so I try my best to keep him clean avoiding the butt bath!

 

[tinker81]

thanks so much for all the replies, that is really helpful.

in response to some of the issues raised - they are eating a LOT of hay (meadow, timothy, topped up 3-4 times per day) and I give them some burgess forage once or twice a day too. they also love to eat their seagrass mats, wicker hide-outs etc....They have definitely upped their hay intake since I reduced the pellets, but this hasn't resolved the problem as yet, so I think the problem must be the burgess, especially given some of the responses here.

They haven't been weighed yet as I will be taking them to the vet for a check-up this month after pay-day, but I have seen them grooming their behinds and also have seen them coming up chewing :shock: so I think they do definitely eat some of their cecals! as for their housing, they have a liberta 150 cage which is 1.5 metres long as the name suggests, and has an upper-deck. they have free run of our living room/dining room whenever we are here, and have a play-pen attached to the front when we are out/unable to supervise. I think the reason they are coating their bottoms is because for some reason they have decided not to use the bed area I have prepared (under the shelf) and instead, they spend most night-times up on the shelf either sat or lying in their litter trays where they do their cecotropes :roll:

I think my plan will be as follows (please let me know if this sounds sensible): remove pellets completely for the next two-three days and just give them loads and loads of extra hay, and watch to see what happens. if the cecotropes disappear, then I will buy some science selective (adult) and gradually introduce these at a very slow rate up to 1/2- an egg cup each per day. if they tolerate SS without excess cecals, then after a few weeks, I will start introducing some greens in very small quantities. However, if the cecals don't disappear during the hay only days, I guess I should get them to the vet asap? They are not showing any other signs of being unwell, drinking and eating loads, lots of nice round browny/yellow 'hay' poo (all over the cage!), and they run around/play and are well-bonded to each other, so I am sure they are fine, but I really want to get this sorted.

thanks again

 

[tinker81]

ps. if anybody has bunnies who do like burgess excel junior and dwarf - i have a huge bag (prob about 8kg left) that will probably be up for grabs!

 

[Dustyrabbit]

The accommodation sounds great, well done.

You could weigh them at home, if you do it once a week you can just keep a check they are not losing condition. Pop them in a bowl or something on the scales or hold them in your arms on the bathroom scales and subtract your weight.

If you are going to change pellets to it really gradually, I would just feed 1 each by hand on day one, maybe day 2 and 3 too as they are only young, then if all is well make it 2 and so on letting it take 2 or 3 weeks to reach an eggcupful. Treat them like treats - great for bonding.

Good luck!

 

[tinker81]

Ok so we have now had two days with no pellets - just hay (meadow and timothy) and I am still finding cecals in the litter tray, although slightly less. one of my buns was in such a mess yesterday, I had to give her a bum-bath after getting her quite clean, I just checked again this morning and she is a mess again...

am I expecting too little too soon? should I persevere with hay only for a bit longer? they are still doing plenty of normal poos but they are looking a bit darker and some are slightly smaller than usual. they are spending a lot of their time eating hay each day, although still seem generally fine, if a little bit subdued.

Any further advice? Help, please!

 

[Babsie]

Have you taken them to the vet to be checked to make sure there is no underlying problem?

 

[cpayne]

Ok so we have now had two days with no pellets - just hay (meadow and timothy) and I am still finding cecals in the litter tray, although slightly less. one of my buns was in such a mess yesterday, I had to give her a bum-bath after getting her quite clean, I just checked again this morning and she is a mess again...

am I expecting too little too soon? should I persevere with hay only for a bit longer? they are still doing plenty of normal poos but they are looking a bit darker and some are slightly smaller than usual. they are spending a lot of their time eating hay each day, although still seem generally fine, if a little bit subdued.

Any further advice? Help, please!

If they are on hay only and still have a mucky bum you need to go to the vets.

 

[Dustyrabbit]

I'd say it could take longer but do have a vet check with a bunny savvy vet.

What hay are you feeding, maybe you said but just going out. If its Timothy or something too high protein then IMO this could be too 'rich' for them. My buns were very sensitive when babies.

Do get a vet check as they could become dehydrated. Also offer a bowl of water as well if they have a bottle.

 

[tinker81]

I have an appointment with a vet in few weeks but may bring it forward. I have found it quite hard to find a bunny specialist around here (SE london), although ther vet I am going to apparently does treat a lot of rabbits.

They definitely aren't dehydrated - there is lots of wee in the litter trays, and they go through bowls and bowls of water each day (don't like drinking from a bottle).

They are eating meadow and timothy hay with a bit of burgess forage too, but I may just stick to meadow for a few days and see if that helps?

The amount of cecals has definitely reduced, it's just that they have taken to spending a lot of time in the litter tray at night (hay rack is above it), so if there are any cecals in there, they will end up sitting on it or lying in it

Otherwise, they seem absolutely fine. I am wondering if perhaps one of them never learned to eat their cecotropes. I would have thought it would have been instinctive, but not sure. I have definitely seen them eating them occasionally. I just can't work out why they don't eat them all.

Now dreading the clean up operation today - the daily clean up is making them even more wary of me and being handled.

 

[Elena]

When you say SE London do you mean the outskirts or more central? I live close to the London/Kent border and we go to Trinity in Maidstone. It's a bit of a trek but it's worth it.

 

[wendle]

I think jacks Jane lives in London and I believe she has a excellent vet for her bunnys :wave:

 

[Babsie]

I certainly wouldn't wait a few weeks before taking them to the vet: unfortunately rabbits go downhill very quickly and treatment needs to be seen as urgent.

If you post another thread 'Rabbit vet wanted in .............' someone may be able to recommend one.