Mischief and Lillabelle-2nd attempt

[twistedtiggerz69]

As I said before I don't know about bunny binding but I understand your concern, I would be worried too if I were you. But if you feel something isn't right, I think you're right, I always believe that.

Can you find similar video on youtube to fully understand Lilabelle's hiccups? There are lots of similar videos on youtube. At least we'll see what the hiccup you're talking about

Thank you yes I didn't feel happy leaving them all day while my OH is at work plus I am more aware what to look out for aswell. He hears lots about bunnies and some sinks in but I think a lot of it goes over his head as he switches off to my jabbering on about them! [emoji38]

Good idea! I will try and find a similar video of another bunny with probable hiccups. It is most likely nothing to worry about but as she has it so much I felt it should be questionned xx

Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk

 

[InspectorMorse]

The humping is likely to increase from Lillabelle as she hits puberty. Mischief will interpret this as her trying to assert dominance. If he does not agree to being subordinate he will chase her off. If she accepts this then a fight should not occur. However, if she objects to being chased away then she will retaliate and aggression will escalate.

Things will get more lively now, there is no way of predicting how much dominant behaviour ( according to him ) Mischief is prepared to put up with.

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

The humping is likely to increase from Lillabelle as she hits puberty. Mischief will interpret this as her trying to assert dominance. If he does not agree to being subordinate he will chase her off. If she accepts this then a fight should not occur. However, if she objects to being chased away then she will retaliate and aggression will escalate.

Things will get more lively now, there is no way of predicting how much dominant behaviour ( according to him ) Mischief is prepared to put up with.

Thank you. I guess there is no telling how aggressive it will get is there?

As far as getting her spayed goes how long should I leave it for? I realise she can be done any time from now on but she seems very little still. Is there a particular age you would say to get her spayed from? I would rather wait than get her done too early and risk complications xx

Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk

 

[InspectorMorse]

Thank you. I guess there is no telling how aggressive it will get is there?

As far as getting her spayed goes how long should I leave it for? I realise she can be done any time from now on but she seems very little still. Is there a particular age you would say to get her spayed from? I would rather wait than get her done too early and risk complications xx

Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk

Some Vets will spay from 4 months as long as the Doe weighs at least 1kg. Personally I would not spay til 5 months minimum. The hormonal behaviour will not stop immediately after spaying, hormone surges occur for up to 8 weeks post surgery.

It is not possible to predict how aggressive things could become if Lillabelle keeps humping Mischief and he does not like it. She might accept that he wont allow it and if she does hump him she could do it quickly and immediately run away. He might leave it at that. But she might try to assert herself and have a go at him, he would then defend himself.

I wish I could give you a cut and dry reply, but what happens from now on really does depend on them.

 

[CarelessSquid07]

Hopefully Mischief will be patient with her.

Blossom occasionally tries to sneak up on Rodney and try to hump him and he will chase her off, Blossom usually runs off and he'll chase a bit,maybe pull a bit of fur and then give up.

If he tries to put her in her place and she doesn't accept you may need to separate again. I'd have a chat with your vet about Lillabelle's spay. I know my vet won't do bigger breeds until 4/5 months but prefers 6 months.

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

Some Vets will spay from 4 months as long as the Doe weighs at least 1kg. Personally I would not spay til 5 months minimum. The hormonal behaviour will not stop immediately after spaying, hormone surges occur for up to 8 weeks post surgery.

It is not possible to predict how aggressive things could become if Lillabelle keeps humping Mischief and he does not like it. She might accept that he wont allow it and if she does hump him she could do it quickly and immediately run away. He might leave it at that. But she might try to assert herself and have a go at him, he would then defend himself.

I wish I could give you a cut and dry reply, but what happens from now on really does depend on them.

They just had another spin around then I shouted 'oi' and they stopped. Then straightaway they nose bumped each other and lay down side by side with noses touching. I don't know what started it as I was dozing.

I think I will keep them together for now as they are still getting on brilliantly otherwise. If it starts to get more aggressive aswell as the spinning I will obviously split them up.

I just rang my vets and they said they won't spay until 6 months. I then asked do you mean after 24 weeks or actually 6 months and then they said minimal 6-7 months really.

Lillabelle is 19 weeks old now. So I can see us having to split them up eventually which is quite sad actually. I didn't realise it would be so difficult to be honest not having bonded bunnies before.

Well she is part of the family now and we will have to muddle through. I will feel so guilty if I have to split them up though. I worry about them hurting each other so I will keep a close eye on them however I can't watch them 24/7 which is the worry so when it looks like they are arguing more or their spinning becomes aggressive I will just have to split them up.

It will be ages then until it is safe to start bonding again if they end up being seperated again! [emoji20]

Thank you for your advice as always Jane xx

Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

I just looked at the calendar and if we got her spayed at 6 months and we look at bonding them again 8 weeks after it will be the week before Xmas. A long time to wait then! This is going to be a very long 3 months [emoji20]

Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

Hopefully Mischief will be patient with her.

Blossom occasionally tries to sneak up on Rodney and try to hump him and he will chase her off, Blossom usually runs off and he'll chase a bit,maybe pull a bit of fur and then give up.

If he tries to put her in her place and she doesn't accept you may need to separate again. I'd have a chat with your vet about Lillabelle's spay. I know my vet won't do bigger breeds until 4/5 months but prefers 6 months.

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk

Are both your bunnies spayed/neutered then? I just wondered if Blossom was spayed more recently or is it just something she does to Rodney from time to time despite them both being done. How long ago was she actually spayed? xx



Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

Some Vets will spay from 4 months as long as the Doe weighs at least 1kg. Personally I would not spay til 5 months minimum. The hormonal behaviour will not stop immediately after spaying, hormone surges occur for up to 8 weeks post surgery.

It is not possible to predict how aggressive things could become if Lillabelle keeps humping Mischief and he does not like it. She might accept that he wont allow it and if she does hump him she could do it quickly and immediately run away. He might leave it at that. But she might try to assert herself and have a go at him, he would then defend himself.

I wish I could give you a cut and dry reply, but what happens from now on really does depend on them.

Sorry I forgot to check...if they have to be split up before her spaying do I have to wait until 8 weeks after her spay before I can try bonding them again? xx

Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk

 

[CarelessSquid07]

Are both your bunnies spayed/neutered then? I just wondered if Blossom was spayed more recently or is it just something she does to Rodney from time to time despite them both being done. How long ago was she actually spayed? xx



Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk

They are both spayed. Rodney was done just before he came home three years ago and Blossom about a year ago when she was rescued.

They both still do it, it's a dominance thing. Rodney is firmly in charge but occasionally she give him a challenge and then he'll reinforce it again and treat me to an evening circling and humping display. I'm under the impression it's unusual to have the boy dominant but I may be wrong.

Primrose was the dominant when with Rodney, but I think that was because he was introduced into her territory and frankly he challenged it regularly. They were bonded but with more of a sibling rivalry.

Whereas with Blossom he is the man of the house lol. She is younger but she is bigger so it's all very random. I think personality has more to do with it to be honest. Blossom is very chilled bless her.



Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

They are both spayed. Rodney was done just before he came home three years ago and Blossom about a year ago when she was rescued.

They both still do it, it's a dominance thing. Rodney is firmly in charge but occasionally she give him a challenge and then he'll reinforce it again and treat me to an evening circling and humping display. I'm under the impression it's unusual to have the boy dominant but I may be wrong.

Primrose was the dominant when with Rodney, but I think that was because he was introduced into her territory and frankly he challenged it regularly. They were bonded but with more of a sibling rivalry.

Whereas with Blossom he is the man of the house lol. She is younger but he is bigger so it's all very random. I think personality has more to do with it to be honest. Blossom is very chilled bless her.



Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk

Thank you for an insight into your bunnies [emoji173] They sound like they have tgeir little tiffs but have it sorted. Bless Rodney for being man of the house though!

Lillabelle just started humping Mischief again. He wasn't too bothered when she did it but then she started humping his head so I have given her a time out in the puppy pen to calm down. I just kind of panicked. I realise I probably hsve to leave them to it to resolve these issues so I will let her out again.

The worry is that my nerve pain is really bad today in my face and I am struggling to cope with it. I really need to lie down quietly and try to relax and this stress is not really helping at all. However I'm really concerned it is not safe to leave them in case I doze off! I am worried I will wake up to blood and fur everywhere and a rush to the vets! [emoji22]

Today is really not a good day at all. Everything always seems to go wrong at once doesn't it? I am feeling very down today and really not in a good place to deal with this. I also feel really depressed about the idea of them being seperated for the next 3 months! I didn't realise it would be this hard to bond them or I would not have been so easily persuaded to get a friend for Mischief. I am not looking forward to the idea of 3 months of them sitting either side of the cage to each other looking miserable and frantically digging to get near each other! It feels so cruel [emoji20] xx

Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk

 

[KCG]

Please don't be too hard on yourself. Remember how easy it was to bond them up at first. Maybe it will be easier after Lilabelle is neutered. Actually it's okay for them to bond or you didn't fail, the only problem is Lillabelle's hormones. How you succeeded before, you will succeed again after sterilization. You should think about it this way.

As I said in PM, you can consult by determining your priority, maybe the common way for all of you may be to separate them for now. Owners of double rabbits will know the best advice in this regard.

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

Please don't be too hard on yourself. Remember how easy it was to bond them up at first. Maybe it will be easier after Lilabelle is neutered. Actually it's okay for them to bond or you didn't fail, the only problem is Lillabelle's hormones. How you succeeded before, you will succeed again after sterilization. You should think about it this way.

As I said in PM, you can consult by determining your priority, maybe the common way for all of you may be to separate them for now. Owners of double rabbits will know the best advice in this regard.

Thank you. Well it is easier for them to be together plus watching them trying to get to each other all day is stressful. I can't imagine how awful it must be for them to finally have another bunny friend and then have them taken away again! Plus the cleaning out of 2 cages and everything else. It is much simpler when they can live in the puppy pen together and no cages. But at the moment it also means I can't leave the flat basically. I mean I don't go out much at all but I have hospital appointments plus I like to visit my daughter.

If Lillabelle continues to hump Mischief (which is looking likely until she is spayed) then we will have no choice but to seperate them. I feel really mean introducing them only to split them up again [emoji22]xx

Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk

 

[a reader of books]

She hasn't tried to sniff his butt since! Thank god it was easily sorted [emoji4]

Yes she follows him everywhere. They are like Mischief and his dark shadow! I'm sure we are not the only ones on here that hate animals being dressed up! This forum is about bunnies coming first after all. I do agree with dogs and other animals having a coat on for warmth in cold weather though. Just not really for a fashion only.

Thank you for clarifying the veggies situation. I think I was piling on the veg too much to make sure they get enough to share. I kind of forgot that Lillabelle is still a baby in my need to make sure they are fed well. I worry that the hay is not enough for them but I have cut their veggies and pellets down a lot.

I weighed them tonight. Mischief's weight has not changed which I have decided I am pleased with. He is dashing about the place and doing some amazing binkies so I feel it is a good weight for him and he has loads of energy! [emoji4]

Lillabelle has put on 0.2 kgs in 2 weeks and is now 3.3kgs. Is 0.2kgs a lot for a french lop? She has gone a bit tubby around her tummy so I am watching her weight. I seem to be getting their feed rations wrong! [emoji20] She is running full speed everywhere though and she did a massive jump today! She jumped over Mischief and over the bottom step of the door in one leap and landed a long way past the door! I was extremely impressed!!

So I am downing their veggies a little more and currently keeping their pellets at 1 and a half eggcups twice a day scattered about. I am wondering if I should start feeding them their pellets seperately in bowls again but I am nervous of it causing an argument?

I love her ears too! In fact I just love Lillabelle full stop. She is a funny little thing. She comes up for loving now and lets you stroke her and I can pick her up to put her away if necessary as long as I keep her low to the floor and talk to her and move slowly. Otherwise she kicks off and growls continuously but it sounds like a buzzing sound.

She let us do her front paws aswell this week. We haven't done her back paws yet. They are not too bad really. We only did her front paws as they are like needles and we only snipped off the very end just in case Mischief and her fought and she scratched him. She does some damage with her nails. She sliced my finger the other day!

The now have 2 big holes in their box big enough for Lillabelle to get through [emoji3]

Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk

I'm so glad that Mischief is dashing about the place and doing amazing binkies. That's good that you're pleased with his weight now. I don't know if 0.2kg in 2 weeks is a lot for a French lop! I've never cared for a bunny as big as they are, so I don't know much about them, sadly. It doesn't seem much, though, for a growing bunny of 3.3 kg? I wouldn't be too worried about her getting a bit tubby while she's still growing, to be honest. That's better than her not getting enough food to support her growth. I'm sorry you're struggling with their feed rations. It can be difficult, I know. Since they're both doing well now and being very active (that does sound like an impressive jump by Lillabelle! ), I'd keep giving them what they're getting now and then look at their weights in a few weeks. Then you can see if Mischief's weight has stayed stable and if Lillabelle is growing well, and adjust if necessary.

It sounds like a good idea to keep their pellets scattered about so they won't argue over it? If they're doing well like that, I wouldn't change it.

That's so sweet that Lillabelle comes to you wanting to be stroked now, aw, and I'm glad she's doing okay being handled when you need to. And that's great that you've been able to finish her front paws! I'm sorry she sliced your finger the other day! Bunny nails can be so sharp! :shock: It definitely sounds for the best to keep the ends of her nails clipped so they won't be able to hurt Mischief or anyone else!

I'm sorry there's trouble between Lillabelle and Mischief and that you might have to separate them, and that you're even thinking that if you'd known it would happen like this you might not have gotten Mischief a friend. It's a risk when bonding a baby to an adult, sadly, that things will go wrong when the baby's hormones start playing up. It's why it's often simpler to bond two already neutered/spayed adults. I hope Mischief will be tolerant of her humping and that you'll be able to let them stay together. It really would be sad if they'd have to be split up until Lillabelle has been spayed.

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

I'm so glad that Mischief is dashing about the place and doing amazing binkies. That's good that you're pleased with his weight now. I don't know if 0.2kg in 2 weeks is a lot for a French lop! I've never cared for a bunny as big as they are, so I don't know much about them, sadly. It doesn't seem much, though, for a growing bunny of 3.3 kg? I wouldn't be too worried about her getting a bit tubby while she's still growing, to be honest. That's better than her not getting enough food to support her growth. I'm sorry you're struggling with their feed rations. It can be difficult, I know. Since they're both doing well now and being very active (that does sound like an impressive jump by Lillabelle! ), I'd keep giving them what they're getting now and then look at their weights in a few weeks. Then you can see if Mischief's weight has stayed stable and if Lillabelle is growing well, and adjust if necessary.

It sounds like a good idea to keep their pellets scattered about so they won't argue over it? If they're doing well like that, I wouldn't change it.

That's so sweet that Lillabelle comes to you wanting to be stroked now, aw, and I'm glad she's doing okay being handled when you need to. And that's great that you've been able to finish her front paws! I'm sorry she sliced your finger the other day! Bunny nails can be so sharp! :shock: It definitely sounds for the best to keep the ends of her nails clipped so they won't be able to hurt Mischief or anyone else!

I'm sorry there's trouble between Lillabelle and Mischief and that you might have to separate them, and that you're even thinking that if you'd known it would happen like this you might not have gotten Mischief a friend. It's a risk when bonding a baby to an adult, sadly, that things will go wrong when the baby's hormones start playing up. It's why it's often simpler to bond two already neutered/spayed adults. I hope Mischief will be tolerant of her humping and that you'll be able to let them stay together. It really would be sad if they'd have to be split up until Lillabelle has been spayed.

Thank you for your kind words.

I am quite happy with their weights really. As you say it is better if she has a nice full tummy. Today she suddenly looks like she has had a growth spurt overnight! She is getting so big! She rather bounds about rather than hops! [emoji38]

I here what you are saying about bonding bunnies being difficult. To be honest I never knew this when I decided to get Lillabelle. I also did not know it would be so hard with a baby. Had I known all this I probably wouldn't have got another bunny. My health is really bad at the moment and all this is a real struggle.

But more importantly seeing the bunnies being all loved up one minute and then the next thing they are spinning around at top speed biting each other's backs is devastating! Knowing we may have to split them up and watching them trying to dig under the cage to be near each other breaks my heart actually [emoji22]

We are having a trying evening. Lillabelle keeping trying to hump Mischief. They end up spinning around and looks like they are trying to bite each other's backs. So we end up stepping in and stopping it. Only for Lillabelle to go straight back and do it again.

I think we have no choice but to seperate them at night but we are considering letting them be together when we are able to keep an eye on them. I don't know if it is a good idea. I don't actually know what to do for the best. I really need some good advice on this.

We want to try and work through it until Lillabelle is spayed. We are looking at Xmas now before we can bond them again which is such a long time. I feel it will be unfair on both of them to be near each other all that time and not be able to be together.

Right this minute they are both lying under the bed so happy. I don't actually know what to do. All I want is to do the best for the bunnies [emoji22]

We are having a difficult evening.

Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

Ok we have decided on how we think we should do this. We will let them out to free roam in the evenings and in the morning when we are able to watch them.

At night I am usually up until the early hours as I am a night owl. So then we will put them in the 8 panel puppy pen so I can keep a close eye on them until 9-10 am when I am awake so I can watch them. In the afternoons I usually sleep again so I will put them back in the puppy pen.

If it gets too much we will make the puppy pen a 6 panel pen and put Lillabelle in it. And the rest of the puppy pen area will be for Mischief so things like litter tray, hay, water and some toys. And we will let Mischief free roam.

We will keep attempting to put them together again unless they start to actually fight. If they look like they are actually going to hurt each other we will split them up permanently. However until that time we will try to keep them together when we can.

At the end of the day they obviously want to be together but Lillabelle keeps getting frisky which she can't help. Mischief is being patient but we are not prepared for him to have his head humped every 5 minutes. There has to be a line of which he is expected to cope with. We will try to let them sort it out between them from now on and hold back unless it looks like one of them will get hurt unless we intervene.

That is our idea on how to to deal with this. If it is wrong please could somebody who has experience with bunnies let us know so we don't make any terrible mistakes.

Our whole world is actually these bunnies right now and we want to do all we can to make them happy while keeping them safe. So please feel free to let me know if we are doing things wrong and how to do them differently. I am more than happy to have advice as we are really unsure what to do for the best.
As far as Lillabelle is concerned we love her to bits and despite being a difficult situation right now she is part of our family and her happiness is as important as Mr Chiefs now and she will always remain part of our family.

Thanks everyone [emoji4]

Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk

 

[Zoobec]

I don’t know if you’ve seen any videos of bonding, that might help? In general, mounting chasing and fur pulling is normal but mounting the face is to be stopped because they can cause nasty injuries to their genitals. Circling can escalate to fighting. I know bonding is very stressful at times. If you have a look at the bonding sticky http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?462494-Old-Useful-Topics-Bonding there’s some videos in there. There’s a balance as to when to intervene really. Intervening too early and they can’t sort stuff out themselves, but leaving it too late risks a fight or injuries. I think if you can watch some videos that might help give you confidence. Mischief and tinker’s mum has some in the sticky and a group of 5 in her signature.

I’m sorry you are struggling, sending you some hugs xx

 

[Zoobec]

Ok we have decided on how we think we should do this. We will let them out to free roam in the evenings and in the morning when we are able to watch them.

At night I am usually up until the early hours as I am a night owl. So then we will put them in the 8 panel puppy pen so I can keep a close eye on them until 9-10 am when I am awake so I can watch them. In the afternoons I usually sleep again so I will put them back in the puppy pen.

If it gets too much we will make the puppy pen a 6 panel pen and put Lillabelle in it. And the rest of the puppy pen area will be for Mischief so things like litter tray, hay, water and some toys. And we will let Mischief free roam.

We will keep attempting to put them together again unless they start to actually fight. If they look like they are actually going to hurt each other we will split them up permanently. However until that time we will try to keep them together when we can.

At the end of the day they obviously want to be together but Lillabelle keeps getting frisky which she can't help. Mischief is being patient but we are not prepared for him to have his head humped every 5 minutes. There has to be a line of which he is expected to cope with. We will try to let them sort it out between them from now on and hold back unless it looks like one of them will get hurt unless we intervene.

That is our idea on how to to deal with this. If it is wrong please could somebody who has experience with bunnies let us know so we don't make any terrible mistakes.

Our whole world is actually these bunnies right now and we want to do all we can to make them happy while keeping them safe. So please feel free to let me know if we are doing things wrong and how to do them differently. I am more than happy to have advice as we are really unsure what to do for the best.
As far as Lillabelle is concerned we love her to bits and despite being a difficult situation right now she is part of our family and her happiness is as important as Mr Chiefs now and she will always remain part of our family.

Thanks everyone [emoji4]

Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk

I cross posted with you, you have some good ideas. Splitting them up each day and putting them back together can work and does work for some people and bunnies, although imo it does make them have to restart each time they are reintroduced. You are right though you need to keep them safe and make things manageable for you for the time being.

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

I don’t know if you’ve seen any videos of bonding, that might help? In general, mounting chasing and fur pulling is normal but mounting the face is to be stopped because they can cause nasty injuries to their genitals. Circling can escalate to fighting. I know bonding is very stressful at times. If you have a look at the bonding sticky http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?462494-Old-Useful-Topics-Bonding there’s some videos in there. There’s a balance as to when to intervene really. Intervening too early and they can’t sort stuff out themselves, but leaving it too late risks a fight or injuries. I think if you can watch some videos that might help give you confidence. Mischief and tinker’s mum has some in the sticky and a group of 5 in her signature.

I’m sorry you are struggling, sending you some hugs xx

Thank you so much! I really appreciate your help. Yes we realise we probably intervened too early as we are total novices to this and it is very alarming. Bunnies are so quick once they escalate into spinning around! We need to give Mischief a chance to let Lillabelle know she is overstepping the mark. Hopefully he will do this and she will listen.

I will watch these with my OH now xx

Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

I cross posted with you, you have some good ideas. Splitting them up each day and putting them back together can work and does work for some people and bunnies, although imo it does make them have to restart each time they are reintroduced. You are right though you need to keep them safe and make things manageable for you for the time being.

Yes we will have to see how it goes. Whenever we have split them up and reintroduced them so far they have just nose bumped each other and lay down side by side and sometimes Lillabelle grooms him.

I realise it may change though in time so we will have to take each day as it comes. Thank you for your help xx

Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk