How do you know when it’s ‘time’?

[Jolysium]

Hi everyone.

I’m really struggling and would appreciate your thoughts, though I know no one else can really know or make the decision.

It’s about my 12 year old bunny Heidi. She has had decreased mobility and may have injured her foot a while ago (swollen and crepitus but undetermined if broken, no obvious moment when it occurred, severe arthritis for years so may be that) and is on a lot of pain medication without much improvement. She sleeps the majority of the time. For context, she lost her friend a few weeks ago, though all these issues pre-date Freda’s illness and subsequent PTS.

She is still super-excited for food, chooses to get up and hop over whenever I go in to see if I have a treat, and eats her meals enthusiastically. She’s not eating as much hay as she did (I’ve given her a low entry litter tray to encourage her and it helped a little).

However I’m worried that apart from food she doesn’t have any joy in her life, and I’m very worried that she’s in a lot of pain. She used to enjoy snuggles and head rubs but doesn’t want them any more.

The vet has suggested it may be time to consider euthanasia (mainly due to her foot and being maxed out on painkillers - but I explained she still runs over for food and they seemed to change their mind).

I don’t know how to decide - she’s still happy at mealtimes and sleeps the rest of the time so it’s really hard to tell if she’s genuinely unhappy or just old and tired. We lost Freda a few weeks ago and have taken it really hard. The idea of losing another is horrible. But I wouldn’t want to be selfishly keeping her going if she’s suffering silently.

Any thoughts or advice welcome. Thanks for reading if you got this far through my waffle!

 

[Jolysium]

This is my lovely Heidi.

 

[Zoobec]

I’m so sorry you lost Freda it’s so hard to decide when it’s time imo, if she’s enjoying food that’s good.

I usually try to take advice from the vet in conjunction with assessing overall quality of life.

Sending vibes and hugs xx

 

[joey&boo]

This is my lovely Heidi.

She's beautiful I'm sorry you lost Freda

Outside of her arthritis does she have any other health issues? Is she exhibiting any signs of pain ? Hows her digestive health aside from less hay eating ? Does she need help with bum cleaning etc

 

[Jolysium]

I’m so sorry you lost Freda it’s so hard to decide when it’s time imo, if she’s enjoying food that’s good.

I usually try to take advice from the vet in conjunction with assessing overall quality of life.

Sending vibes and hugs xx

Thanks Zoobec. Food has always been her favourite thing. I’m just not sure if the few minutes a day she has food are enough to be any kind of quality of life. She’s asleep the rest of the time.

 

[Jolysium]

She's beautiful I'm sorry you lost Freda

Outside of her arthritis does she have any other health issues? Is she exhibiting any signs of pain ? Hows her digestive health aside from less hay eating ? Does she need help with bum cleaning etc

Thank you. She’s pretty healthy otherwise and her digestion is fine, she is still passing nice big bombs. The arthritis is very longstanding - she has had a wonky leg since I adopted her aged under 1, so likely from birth. Her only other issue is sticky eye discharge, which is managed with cleaning and keeping the skin intact. Cause not really known, the eyes are ok themselves, could well be tooth roots but she wouldn’t be a candidate for surgery.

The only sign of pain was the decreased mobility, starting a few months ago. I didn’t witness any accident and she never had a period where she stopped moving around completely or didn’t come charging over for treats. The vet said her foot was very painful - but it would be when you’re heavily palpating a very arthritic leg. She was put up to the max dose of gabapentin, metacam and paracetamol a week ago and seems to be moving slightly faster. But she only gets up for food so I wonder if it’s just that her love of food overrides the pain [emoji24] But also I wonder if she lies down and sleeps the rest of the time maybe she’s not suffering too much and is just adjusting to the limitations of age…

 

[InspectorMorse]

As you say, we can’t really advise you as we don’t know Heidi and cannot see first hand what her body language is saying

I don’t know what analgesia she is on, some can cause marked sedation. This can suddenly start to become an issue if a compromised liver or kidney function inhibits the Rabbit’s ability to metabolise the drugs.

A recently bereaved Rabbit often becomes far less active and sleeps a lot more. I am sorry for your recent loss of Freda

For me a Rabbit’s QOL has to be more than just eating and sleeping. But it sounds as though Heidi is still showing some interest in what’s going on, as I said, without being able to see her first hand it’s impossible to get full context.

Maybe reassess things over the weekend. Sometimes it can cheer a recently bereaved Rabbit up to add a few interesting things to their environment for them to investigate. Even something as simple as an empty cereal box with a few treats in it. I never leave a Rabbit unsupervised with any cardboard toys though, in case they start to chew and ingest the cardboard.

‘’The Rabbit Grimace Scale with images and explanations for each of the 5 facial action units (FAU); orbital tightening, cheek flattening, nose shape, whisker position and ear position. Each FAU is scored according to whether it is not present (score of 0), moderately present (score of 1) and obliviously present (score of 2).’’

 

[Jolysium]

As you say, we can’t really advise you as we don’t know Heidi and cannot see first hand what her body language is saying

I don’t know what analgesia she is on, some can cause marked sedation. This can suddenly start to become an issue if a compromised liver or kidney function inhibits the Rabbit’s ability to metabolise the drugs.

A recently bereaved Rabbit often becomes far less active and sleeps a lot more. I am sorry for your recent loss of Freda

For me a Rabbit’s QOL has to be more than just eating and sleeping. But it sounds as though Heidi is still showing some interest in what’s going on, as I said, without being able to see her first hand it’s impossible to get full context.

Maybe reassess things over the weekend. Sometimes it can cheer a recently bereaved Rabbit up to add a few interesting things to their environment for them to investigate. Even something as simple as an empty cereal box with a few treats in it. I never leave a Rabbit unsupervised with any cardboard toys though, in case they start to chew and ingest the cardboard.

‘’The Rabbit Grimace Scale with images and explanations for each of the 5 facial action units (FAU); orbital tightening, cheek flattening, nose shape, whisker position and ear position. Each FAU is scored according to whether it is not present (score of 0), moderately present (score of 1) and obliviously present (score of 2).’’

Thank you, that’s really useful to see the grimace scale, I will try to objectively assess.

Her sleeping a lot started before the mobility issues and before gabapentin was started. Her dose has been increased recently though so maybe she’s even snoozier than usual because of that.

I have given her some more toys but she’s never been bothered by anything inedible. Food has always been her main motivation and pleasure in life! She did wake me up at 5:30 this morning by getting her treat dispensing ball stuck in her wooden tunnel, so she is actively seeking food out rather than just waiting for it to be provided, so I suppose maybe that is a positive sign.

 

[joey&boo]

Thank you. She’s pretty healthy otherwise and her digestion is fine, she is still passing nice big bombs. The arthritis is very longstanding - she has had a wonky leg since I adopted her aged under 1, so likely from birth. Her only other issue is sticky eye discharge, which is managed with cleaning and keeping the skin intact. Cause not really known, the eyes are ok themselves, could well be tooth roots but she wouldn’t be a candidate for surgery.

The only sign of pain was the decreased mobility, starting a few months ago. I didn’t witness any accident and she never had a period where she stopped moving around completely or didn’t come charging over for treats. The vet said her foot was very painful - but it would be when you’re heavily palpating a very arthritic leg. She was put up to the max dose of gabapentin, metacam and paracetamol a week ago and seems to be moving slightly faster. But she only gets up for food so I wonder if it’s just that her love of food overrides the pain [emoji24] But also I wonder if she lies down and sleeps the rest of the time maybe she’s not suffering too much and is just adjusting to the limitations of age…

These are my thoughts. Lots & lots of sleeping, enjoying her interactions with you & still loving her food...for an elderly house bun, I really think that's ok. Snoozing & food are nice things.
I've not had many older buns. Lost 2 last year (rescues at around 11). Joey had cancer & never got to looking or acting old but Mousey was the opposite. She definitely wasnt coping anywhere as near as well as your bun but it was only when she got too fragile to hold herself up properly we opted for PTS. But she looked comfy snoozing (& did ALOT), still loved us & like your girl loved her food. I have a 10.5 year old now & she sleeps a lot too

 

[Jolysium]

[/B]

These are my thoughts. Lots & lots of sleeping, enjoying her interactions with you & still loving her food...for an elderly house bun, I really think that's ok. Snoozing & food are nice things.
I've not had many older buns. Lost 2 last year (rescues at around 11). Joey had cancer & never got to looking or acting old but Mousey was the opposite. She definitely wasnt coping anywhere as near as well as your bun but it was only when she got too fragile to hold herself up properly we opted for PTS. But she looked comfy snoozing (& did ALOT), still loved us & like your girl loved her food. I have a 10.5 year old now & she sleeps a lot too

Thank you, I really appreciate your thoughts [emoji3590]
I’m sorry for your losses, it is so hard when they get old and leave us.

 

[bunny momma]

She is lovely. As long as she is not in pain-IM kindly posted the grimace scale- and has no major illness you do not have to make any decision. Many older animals are less energetic than they once were and sleep more. She is well enough to eagerly look for treats and she is eating well.
You both need time to grieve Freda. I am sorry for your loss.

 

[Jolysium]

She is lovely. As long as she is not in pain-IM kindly posted the grimace scale- and has no major illness you do not have to make any decision. Many older animals are less energetic than they once were and sleep more. She is well enough to eagerly look for treats and she is eating well.
You both need time to grieve Freda. I am sorry for your loss.

Thank you [emoji4]