Gut stasis surgery advice help

[Amity & Nic]

Hi,
My male bun (1 year old). Has just been admitted to the emergency hospital (it's almost 2am here). He has gut stasis. Glucose levels of 30 & he's got a very low temperature. The xray was inconclusive but digestive system looked full of food, gas and 'something' lower down (vet didn't know if it's food). She said his prognosis wasn't good and said if they have to do surgery, it'll be killing him quicker. Is this true? If they suggest surgery to me if he gets worse, should I not put him through that? I would just like some 'rabbit people' advice to try and do the right thing. I cant believe this, he's only a baby .

 

[bunny momma]

I am sending you lots of positive vibes. They would likely give pain meds, fluids and warm him to stabilize him. Then they should repeat glucose and perhaps xray to see if 'it' moved.
Did your baby ingest any cardboard, carpet or other items?
Sending you lots of positive vibes his glucose will decrease.
GI surgery on a bunny is far different than in other animals due to bunnies having a very complex digestion process that can be disrupted with surgery.

 

[InspectorMorse]

Surgery for a GI tract obstruction is exceptionally high risk but it is possible. Much depends on how sick the Rabbit is already and how Rabbit Savvy the Vet is. Even in the hands of the most skilled Vet a Rabbit might not survive. They can come through surgery but they never recover. Whether to operate or not is a decision that can only be made on a case by case basis and with the understanding that there are no guarantees that it will have a good outcome.

I am sorry that your Rabbit is so sick, sadly it sounds as though his prognosis is indeed very poor. The low temperature and very high blood glucose are both indicative of a GI tract obstruction and subsequent systemic shock Surgery on a Rabbit already in systemic shock has a very low chance of being successful. The Rabbit would need to be stabilised first, strong IV analgesia, IV fluids, heat therapy. Prokinetic drugs should NOT be given if an obstruction is suspected.

 

[Amity & Nic]

Surgery for a GI tract obstruction is exceptionally high risk but it is possible. Much depends on how sick the Rabbit is already and how Rabbit Savvy the Vet is. Even in the hands of the most skilled Vet a Rabbit might not survive. They can come through surgery but they never recover. Whether to operate or not is a decision that can only be made on a case by case basis and with the understanding that there are no guarantees that it will have a good outcome.

I am sorry that your Rabbit is so sick, sadly it sounds as though his prognosis is indeed very poor. The low temperature and very high blood glucose are both indicative of a GI tract obstruction and subsequent systemic shock Surgery on a Rabbit already in systemic shock has a very low chance of being successful. The Rabbit would need to be stabilised first, strong IV analgesia, IV fluids, heat therapy. Prokinetic drugs should NOT be given if an obstruction is suspected.

I am sending you lots of positive vibes. They would likely give pain meds, fluids and warm him to stabilize him. Then they should repeat glucose and perhaps xray to see if 'it' moved.
Did your baby ingest any cardboard, carpet or other items?
Sending you lots of positive vibes his glucose will decrease.
GI surgery on a bunny is far different than in other animals due to bunnies having a very complex digestion process that can be disrupted with surgery.

Thanks so much for the replies and vibes. I'm not sure if he's ingested anything [emoji853] I don't think he has. I'm worried how much he grooms my female bun, she has a thick coat and moults terribly (she's brushed by us too). All the treatments that were mentioned, the vet said they would do. She did say he was very poorly [emoji29]. I just can't believe it. He was binking around the same morning.

Thank you for the info on surgery. I'll hear from the vet in about an hour on how he's doing.

Xx

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[InspectorMorse]

Thanks so much for the replies and vibes. I'm not sure if he's ingested anything [emoji853] I don't think he has. I'm worried how much he grooms my female bun, she has a thick coat and moults terribly (she's brushed by us too). All the treatments that were mentioned, the vet said they would do. She did say he was very poorly [emoji29]. I just can't believe it. He was binking around the same morning.

Thank you for the info on surgery. I'll hear from the vet in about an hour on how he's doing.

Xx

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If the symptoms came on suddenly then the problem is likely to be due to a full obstruction. The obstruction often occurs in the proximal duodenum or further down at the ileocecocolic junction. The abdominal X-rays taken of your Rabbit sound to indicate that he could have the latter.

https://www.mspca.org/angell_servic...often has a,may also abruptly stop defecating.

I really hope he can pull through, poor boy x

 

[Amity & Nic]

Hi, thanks for the reply. I just don't know how it happened so fast. I can't see anything that he would have eaten.

The vet called again. His temperature still low. Glucose 27.5. His gut not moving and he's not eating. She said he seemed brighter in himself though? They will re-xray mid morning and discuss the results with the team.

I feel like I want to say yes if they suggest surgery so I've done all I can..but also don't want to put him through that if he's going to wake up, be in pain and die. I don't know what to do.

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[bunny momma]

Sending vibes your little boy continues to improve and surgery will not be needed.
.

 

[InspectorMorse]

Hi, thanks for the reply. I just don't know how it happened so fast. I can't see anything that he would have eaten.

The vet called again. His temperature still low. Glucose 27.5. His gut not moving and he's not eating. She said he seemed brighter in himself though? They will re-xray mid morning and discuss the results with the team.

I feel like I want to say yes if they suggest surgery so I've done all I can..but also don't want to put him through that if he's going to wake up, be in pain and die. I don't know what to do.

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How Rabbit Savvy is your Vet?

What are the names of all the medications your Rabbit is being given?

I am assuming he is on IV fluids and a source of heat ?

Has the Vet run a full blood profile, not just a blood glucose test? A FBP would give more detailed information about his clinical state and would influence a decision about surgery or PTS.

 

[Amity & Nic]

He's not at his usual vet but they seem to be quite rabbit savvy. Her colleague has done many rabbit courses apparently. I'm not sure if that lady is in today (that is the vet that said surgery is a way to just kill them faster).

He's on fluids and heat. I'm not sure which medications he's on. They said they'd give him everything they could.
I'm also not sure if they've done any other blood work. I will ask when they call back. Thank you.

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[InspectorMorse]

He's not at his usual vet but they seem to be quite rabbit savvy. Her colleague has done many rabbit courses apparently. I'm not sure if that lady is in today (that is the vet that said surgery is a way to just kill them faster).

He's on fluids and heat. I'm not sure which medications he's on. They said they'd give him everything they could.
I'm also not sure if they've done any other blood work. I will ask when they call back. Thank you.

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I would want to know if that was a broad statement about gut surgery on Rabbits in general or a case specific comment. If the former then maybe the Vet who said it is not very experienced with treating serious gut problems in Rabbits. As I previously mentioned, all gut surgery is high risk and even if the Rabbit survives the surgery their gi tract might never start working again. Or they can still succumb to the shock of being so unwell. The risk of infection ( peritonitis) is also something to consider. All that being said a successful outcome is not impossible.

 

[Amity & Nic]

I don't really want to talk about money.. But I'm a bit confused if anyone can reassure me. Why does a spay surgery cost about £100 & intestinal surgery cost £1,000? I know the vets he's at is expensive but is this normal?



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[Amity & Nic]

The vet I spoke to said it was a broad statement really. All rabbits are different but most don't pull through. She mentioned one last week where they kept it alive for 4 hours after surgery [emoji22].
I will enquire if the 'rabbit vet' would be operating.

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[Shimmer]

I don't really want to talk about money.. But I'm a bit confused if anyone can reassure me. Why does a spay surgery cost about £100 & intestinal surgery cost £1,000? I know the vets he's at is expensive but is this normal?



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A spay is a routine op' on a fit rabbit with low risk. Everything is where / how it should be and you are just removing a set of separate internal organs - so it's very quick. Rcovery is usually straightforward and rabbit should be eating on its own within 24 hrs, with restricted activity while they heal.

Gut surgery - only done as emergency / last resort. Animal is already compromised. You don't know what you are dealing with until you get in there. First find the blockage. Then remove it with minimal damage to the rest of the gut, and avoid gut contents entering abdominal cavity as that will cause peritonitis. Then close up and bring animal round & provide supportive care for as long as required. Rabbit guts are quite sensitive and need to be continually processing fibre. Other animals can usually be starved before and can manage with minimal input for a few days after, but not rabbits.

Sending lots of healing vibes for you and bunny.

 

[Amity & Nic]

A spay is a routine op' on a fit rabbit with low risk. Everything is where / how it should be and you are just removing a set of separate internal organs - so it's very quick. Rcovery is usually straightforward and rabbit should be eating on its own within 24 hrs, with restricted activity while they heal.

Gut surgery - only done as emergency / last resort. Animal is already compromised. You don't know what you are dealing with until you get in there. First find the blockage. Then remove it with minimal damage to the rest of the gut, and avoid gut contents entering abdominal cavity as that will cause peritonitis. Then close up and bring animal round & provide supportive care for as long as required. Rabbit guts are quite sensitive and need to be continually processing fibre. Other animals can usually be starved before and can manage with minimal input for a few days after, but not rabbits.

Sending lots of healing vibes for you and bunny.

Thank you shimmer xx

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[Amity & Nic]

Just a little update. I asked the vet about a full blood panel. She's not sure they can do that for a rabbit or be able to interpret the results correctly?!

He's still not great. Gut motility drugs not really working. Does anyone know why they might not be working? His glucose has come right down. Now they're worried its going to keep falling. He won't eat anything by himself (he's got all his favourites there now).

I went to go see him today. He's still pretty out of it.. Dogs barking in the waiting room and he wasn't bothered at all. He looked a little hopeful when I put him in the carrier. He turned around, lifted his head and was looking out (unlike when they brought him over to me when he was still facing backwards). I feel guilty that he may have been happier and thought he was going home [emoji24].

I just don't understand it. No drugs are working. He's not acting in pain. Just won't eat or poop?? [emoji21]

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[joey&boo]

Just a little update. I asked the vet about a full blood panel. She's not sure they can do that for a rabbit or be able to interpret the results correctly?!

He's still not great. Gut motility drugs not really working. Does anyone know why they might not be working? His glucose has come right down. Now they're worried its going to keep falling. He won't eat anything by himself (he's got all his favourites there now).

I went to go see him today. He's still pretty out of it.. Dogs barking in the waiting room and he wasn't bothered at all. He looked a little hopeful when I put him in the carrier. He turned around, lifted his head and was looking out (unlike when they brought him over to me when he was still facing backwards). I feel guilty that he may have been happier and thought he was going home [emoji24].

I just don't understand it. No drugs are working. He's not acting in pain. Just won't eat or poop?? [emoji21]

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So sorry your wee boy is so poorly. Adding my vibes.

I'm worried you say he is on gut motility drugs - he really shouldn't be on these as they are seriously contraindicated in blockage cases. This is the main reason blood glucose results are needed for rabbit in stasis. If the readings are lower they indicate (along with other things ascertained by a vet examination) stasis is not blockage related so the motility drugs are then deemed safe to use

 

[Amity & Nic]

Hi, thanks for the comment. I think the second xray showed no blockages. I really hope they know what they're doing [emoji22]. His tummy was never blown up, always soft and feels normal. I'm just at a loss why he got so poorly [emoji853]

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[joey&boo]

Hi, thanks for the comment. I think the second xray showed no blockages. I really hope they know what they're doing [emoji22]. His tummy was never blown up, always soft and feels normal. I'm just at a loss why he got so poorly [emoji853]

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ahh that's good to hear his second xray showed no blockage & other clinical signs didn't point to it either. With many digestive issues its really common for a bunny to go from fit & healthy to really quite poorly in no time at all.

 

[InspectorMorse]

Can you ask for a referral to a specialist Vet. I am concerned that the current Vet might not be sufficiently skilled as far as treating Rabbits goes.

Eg Manor Vets Exotics

https://www.manorvets.co.uk/en-gb/e...eam are based,Association and Fund gold award.

 

[Amity & Nic]

When the vet said they may not be able to interpret blood test results properly, I asked if they could send them to a specialist. They said it would take too long to come back. I may ask about him being moved tomorrow if he's the same. I'm stressed because I'm at work all day tomorrow, I can't get out of it.

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