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Giving a rabbit away for free
- Thread starter Moonstone
- Start date
daphnephoebe
Wise Old Thumper
Not against the law sadly.
The mods may remove the link (just so you're aware).
Generally bunny looks in good condition, maybe a tad skinny but nothing that makes me overly concerned about its welfare. Looks bright and alert.
The mods may remove the link (just so you're aware).
Generally bunny looks in good condition, maybe a tad skinny but nothing that makes me overly concerned about its welfare. Looks bright and alert.
As already said, it's not against the law and people often assume that giving an animal away for free is more appropriate than 'making a profit' from them but they don't realise that there's also the risks of them being used as snake food - likewise with giving cats/dogs away for free, you run the risk that dog fighters will pick them up.
If you send the link to a member of the Free Ads Team, they can send them some general rehoming advice. More details about the team are here. http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?128046-New-Rules-for-Free-Ads
If you send the link to a member of the Free Ads Team, they can send them some general rehoming advice. More details about the team are here. http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?128046-New-Rules-for-Free-Ads
JessBun
Mama Doe
I completely understand there are problems that need to be considered (and often sadly aren't) with giving away rabbits, cavies or rodents but I really feel I need to clarify on this one that gets thrown about a lot. Speaking from 13 years experience keeping reptiles, even rescuing and indeed having worked in the hobby itself and in zoo's (as well as keeping furries) I feel entirely comfortable stating the chances of a rabbit that's free to good home being fed to a snake are almost nil in the UK. In the states where live feeding is more accepted it's absolutely a problem (and probably where the myth originated from). Here however, this really is a perpetuated myth that seriously needs to be addressed.
The only snakes that any keeper could even consider feeding a live rabbit to (in terms of being able to kill without too much risk of damage to the snake itself, and then consuming the rabbit) are the very largest of the boids such as reticulated pythons, burmese, african rock python and of course your extremely large boas such as Anacondas. Whilst these species are kept in the UK, the numbers of such are low. Add onto this that the reptile keeping community in the UK condemns the feeding of live prey on the whole, and that most keepers of the huge snakes that feed on these are very experienced so know there is a real risk to the snake if done, and you can see how this becomes so unlikely.
Sorry if it seems like I'm going off on a tangent - this just really needs to be addressed and actual facts with rehoming animals for free being presented. People pay a lot of money for their snakes and their upkeep in the UK. They just don't want to risk the lives of their snakes by feeding live prey which can severely injure or kill them. The feeding of live mice and rats does take place with breeders here (and is just as condemned!) because these are a manageable prey item for the snake, but with rabbits it really is nothing but a scare tactic. I'd also add the price of a frozen rabbit for snake food is extremely cheap - there's really no need for people to look for free ones at all that could be carrying all sorts of ecto or endo parasites.
The only snakes that any keeper could even consider feeding a live rabbit to (in terms of being able to kill without too much risk of damage to the snake itself, and then consuming the rabbit) are the very largest of the boids such as reticulated pythons, burmese, african rock python and of course your extremely large boas such as Anacondas. Whilst these species are kept in the UK, the numbers of such are low. Add onto this that the reptile keeping community in the UK condemns the feeding of live prey on the whole, and that most keepers of the huge snakes that feed on these are very experienced so know there is a real risk to the snake if done, and you can see how this becomes so unlikely.
Sorry if it seems like I'm going off on a tangent - this just really needs to be addressed and actual facts with rehoming animals for free being presented. People pay a lot of money for their snakes and their upkeep in the UK. They just don't want to risk the lives of their snakes by feeding live prey which can severely injure or kill them. The feeding of live mice and rats does take place with breeders here (and is just as condemned!) because these are a manageable prey item for the snake, but with rabbits it really is nothing but a scare tactic. I'd also add the price of a frozen rabbit for snake food is extremely cheap - there's really no need for people to look for free ones at all that could be carrying all sorts of ecto or endo parasites.
It might be a very small risk but it's a possibility and, tbh, is just one of a number of reasons why rehoming for free isn't necessarily the best idea.
I remember reading an article a few mths back about a snake keeper who was charged for keeping lots of rats/mice/rabbits in filthy conditions to breed from and some of them had originally been family pets that were given away for free. While the majority of reptile keepers are probably very passionate about doing things right, I'm sure there are the more unscrupulous owners, just as there probably are within any animal-keeping community.
The Free Ads Team don't make a huge issue out of the snake food aspect, tbh, though - the advice they give out concentrates on how to rehome as safely as possible & discusses homechecking, what sort of questions to ask prospective owners, neutering etc.
I remember reading an article a few mths back about a snake keeper who was charged for keeping lots of rats/mice/rabbits in filthy conditions to breed from and some of them had originally been family pets that were given away for free. While the majority of reptile keepers are probably very passionate about doing things right, I'm sure there are the more unscrupulous owners, just as there probably are within any animal-keeping community.
The Free Ads Team don't make a huge issue out of the snake food aspect, tbh, though - the advice they give out concentrates on how to rehome as safely as possible & discusses homechecking, what sort of questions to ask prospective owners, neutering etc.
JessBun
Mama Doe
But this is another misconception. Even those who do breed their own food for reptiles, still do not feed them live in the vast majority of cases - and those few that do (and it's absolutely disgusting I may add) do it with rats and mice - not guinea pigs, rabbits etc - they are far too large and hazardous to the snake (a rabbits kick is very strong, as is the teeth of rabbits and cavies). They are humanely (in the majority of cases..) culled beforehand.
I fully agree not every reptile keeper out there is knowledgeable and responsible (else I wouldn't have rescue reptiles). But I do have to point out in the cases of animals which are large enough to even be fed on live rabbits in the first place, they really are. Any irresponsible keepers whom have these snakes shift them on really quick when they realise they are far too hard to handle. Feeding live food also makes a far more food responsive snake, which is then hazardous to keepers when the snake is large enough to be feeding on live rabbits (think 13ft minimum plus realistically!). If you think logically about it, no keeper who has a snake large enough to kill them is going to increase the risks of a feeding bite (and coil) by increasing the food responsiveness of the snake by feeding live.
In the UK rabbits offered for free are really not at any real risk of being collected by snake keeper to be fed live to their pet - all the facts I've backed it up with show otherwise. If we were in the states, I'd wholeheartedly agree with you this was a problem and a very real risk. The reason for this is the welfare of reptiles in the states (and the welfare of animals in general) falls well below our own here in the UK, at the moment. Live feeding is commonplace in the states, here it is not. (Indeed it's illegal here unless the snake is at risk of starvation because it won't feed on anything but live).
Please understand I'm not just trying to blindly 'defend' snake keepers - there are things done by individuals I entirely do not agree with. But I have posted facts and I hope backed them up adequately to reconsider these comments.
Speaking from a long term owner of reptiles, mice, piggies and buns I speak from good knowledge and experience of dealing with all sorts of reptile owners when I say if I were rehoming a bun for free on gumtree etc I would be very worried about a lot of things. Snake keepers collecting my bun to feed live to their snake genuinely would not be one of them. I hope this says a lot since I'm very much in this hobby and have been for a long time - I do see the not-so-nice sides to it.
I hope you don't receive this as nit-picking KarenM. It's really not my intention, and I'm well aware there a lot of people who say this about snake keeping (and it's about time it really got addressed!). It's just perpetuating myths like this that means many a reptile owner (including me!) have been turned down from owning certain furries for the simple fact I own reptiles, for a totally non-legitimate reason.
I don't even think furry keepers but- non-reptile owners are even aware that a very high number of captive snakes could not even kill a live prey item. :lol:
I fully agree not every reptile keeper out there is knowledgeable and responsible (else I wouldn't have rescue reptiles). But I do have to point out in the cases of animals which are large enough to even be fed on live rabbits in the first place, they really are. Any irresponsible keepers whom have these snakes shift them on really quick when they realise they are far too hard to handle. Feeding live food also makes a far more food responsive snake, which is then hazardous to keepers when the snake is large enough to be feeding on live rabbits (think 13ft minimum plus realistically!). If you think logically about it, no keeper who has a snake large enough to kill them is going to increase the risks of a feeding bite (and coil) by increasing the food responsiveness of the snake by feeding live.
In the UK rabbits offered for free are really not at any real risk of being collected by snake keeper to be fed live to their pet - all the facts I've backed it up with show otherwise. If we were in the states, I'd wholeheartedly agree with you this was a problem and a very real risk. The reason for this is the welfare of reptiles in the states (and the welfare of animals in general) falls well below our own here in the UK, at the moment. Live feeding is commonplace in the states, here it is not. (Indeed it's illegal here unless the snake is at risk of starvation because it won't feed on anything but live).
Please understand I'm not just trying to blindly 'defend' snake keepers - there are things done by individuals I entirely do not agree with. But I have posted facts and I hope backed them up adequately to reconsider these comments.
Speaking from a long term owner of reptiles, mice, piggies and buns I speak from good knowledge and experience of dealing with all sorts of reptile owners when I say if I were rehoming a bun for free on gumtree etc I would be very worried about a lot of things. Snake keepers collecting my bun to feed live to their snake genuinely would not be one of them. I hope this says a lot since I'm very much in this hobby and have been for a long time - I do see the not-so-nice sides to it.
I hope you don't receive this as nit-picking KarenM. It's really not my intention, and I'm well aware there a lot of people who say this about snake keeping (and it's about time it really got addressed!). It's just perpetuating myths like this that means many a reptile owner (including me!) have been turned down from owning certain furries for the simple fact I own reptiles, for a totally non-legitimate reason.
I don't even think furry keepers but- non-reptile owners are even aware that a very high number of captive snakes could not even kill a live prey item. :lol:
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It's not a topic that really interests me tbh so I won't get into a debate about it and, as I also already said, the risk is very small and just one of a whole number of reasons why people need to exercise caution when giving animals away.
In the case I referred to though, the snake keeper was collecting animals (including rabbits) that were being given away and using them to breed from to supply food for his snakes. I have no idea whether he was feeding them live or culling them first & that wasn't actually the point - the main issue for me (aside from the perpetual breeding) was that those animals were being kept in filthy conditions.
In the case I referred to though, the snake keeper was collecting animals (including rabbits) that were being given away and using them to breed from to supply food for his snakes. I have no idea whether he was feeding them live or culling them first & that wasn't actually the point - the main issue for me (aside from the perpetual breeding) was that those animals were being kept in filthy conditions.
daphnephoebe
Wise Old Thumper
Just going to add - feeding live animals such as mice/rats to snakes is illegal under UK welfare law. (I couldn't see this said on any of the posts )
It's 100% legal to breed them with the intention of feeding them, but they must be killed in a humane way before being offered to the snake. And obviously, they must have at lease the 5 freedoms while alive.
Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk
It's 100% legal to breed them with the intention of feeding them, but they must be killed in a humane way before being offered to the snake. And obviously, they must have at lease the 5 freedoms while alive.
Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk
JessBun
Mama Doe
I'm sorry but owners all over the UK keep and breed rabbits in filthy conditions whether it's for the reptile industry or for pets. It's not something to pick out snake keepers on at all.
There are plenty of problems that are very common with advertising rabbits for free on these sorts of sites (backyard breeders, children's pet scenario 'stuck in a tiny hutch at the bottom of the garden and forgotten about', poor husbandry, neglect, no company etc etc. Snake food is not one of the latter that is so common, and backyard breeders in general are certainly much more worth an immediate mention than the 'snake food' scenario.
The fact is, it's cheaper and far easier to buy a frozen rabbit than it probably costs in petrol to go and collect one of these 'free ones' and go through the trauma of dispatching it yourself before feeding it to the snake. Why would any keeper who keeps very large snakes and has spent a lot of money on them (forgetting the emotional aspect) risk it all with collecting an uknown rabbit from gumtree that would likely be ridden with parasites? Prey sizes need to be appropriate for the snake too, and this would be very hard to judge from a free to good home gumtree advert resulting in wasted money, time and having a rabbit on your hands you couldn't do anything with. It's a perpetuated myth used as a scare tactic, and it's not on as it gives reptile owners a bad name when these statements have no weight. It's not a scapegoat for persuading people not advertise their pets for free.
Snake keepers are animal lovers - you'd be hard pushed to find one who could either feed a live animal to it, or kill it first. The fact is there's far more people collecting animals for free off gumtree to breed for the pet trade than there are to breed for snake food - because you'd be so hard pushed to find a person who had it in their emotional or physical capability to actually kill a rabbit (even if they wanted to - it needs a special method).
Daphne I did mention it early on but you are absolutely right about the legality (except it is legal if you can prove the snake will suffer as it won't feed on anything but).
Just to add, I would be interested in seeing the case in question where the man was breeding rabbits for food for his snakes. Mice and rats is believable - but it'd be interesting to see if this guy even kept species capable of consuming a rabbit.
There are plenty of problems that are very common with advertising rabbits for free on these sorts of sites (backyard breeders, children's pet scenario 'stuck in a tiny hutch at the bottom of the garden and forgotten about', poor husbandry, neglect, no company etc etc. Snake food is not one of the latter that is so common, and backyard breeders in general are certainly much more worth an immediate mention than the 'snake food' scenario.
The fact is, it's cheaper and far easier to buy a frozen rabbit than it probably costs in petrol to go and collect one of these 'free ones' and go through the trauma of dispatching it yourself before feeding it to the snake. Why would any keeper who keeps very large snakes and has spent a lot of money on them (forgetting the emotional aspect) risk it all with collecting an uknown rabbit from gumtree that would likely be ridden with parasites? Prey sizes need to be appropriate for the snake too, and this would be very hard to judge from a free to good home gumtree advert resulting in wasted money, time and having a rabbit on your hands you couldn't do anything with. It's a perpetuated myth used as a scare tactic, and it's not on as it gives reptile owners a bad name when these statements have no weight. It's not a scapegoat for persuading people not advertise their pets for free.
Snake keepers are animal lovers - you'd be hard pushed to find one who could either feed a live animal to it, or kill it first. The fact is there's far more people collecting animals for free off gumtree to breed for the pet trade than there are to breed for snake food - because you'd be so hard pushed to find a person who had it in their emotional or physical capability to actually kill a rabbit (even if they wanted to - it needs a special method).
Daphne I did mention it early on but you are absolutely right about the legality (except it is legal if you can prove the snake will suffer as it won't feed on anything but).
Just to add, I would be interested in seeing the case in question where the man was breeding rabbits for food for his snakes. Mice and rats is believable - but it'd be interesting to see if this guy even kept species capable of consuming a rabbit.
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It was simply a quick reply to somebody's concerns about a free ad. I'm often replying on my phone so don't have time for long-winded replies and I didn't mean to make it sound like snake owners were the only thing to be concerned about if you decide to give away a rabbit. Apologies for making it sound that way and, as I've said at least twice now, I fully agree that there are lots of of other things to look out for...... I'll be sure to mention one of them instead next time I reply to a thread about free ads. :lol::lol:
Personally, I also think that charging for an animal when you rehome them isn't the best way to ensure they go to a good home; quizzing the owners, meeting with them in person, checking on the accommodation etc is of far more importance. But that's a whole other debate too.
It was a while ago I read it but a quick google search threw up the news story I referred to. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-32885070
:lol::lol:Personally, I also think that charging for an animal when you rehome them isn't the best way to ensure they go to a good home; quizzing the owners, meeting with them in person, checking on the accommodation etc is of far more importance. But that's a whole other debate too.
It was a while ago I read it but a quick google search threw up the news story I referred to. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-32885070
EyerollChamp
Alpha Buck
As another reptile keeper I have to say that one weirdo who got caught doesn't constitute a risk.
EyerollChamp
Alpha Buck
That article only mentions mice and rats...
EyerollChamp
Alpha Buck
You're right, I stand corrected.
