GI Statis again-UPDATE-LUMP-possible tumour-Review at vets

[michelle&holly]

Hi thanks for the advice - i might be being a bit thick but what exactly are spring greens?

I've been down to holland & barratt and got the bromelain & tried to tempt her with it but she won't eat it at the mo. Have put it in her food bowl. would it be worth trying to break it in half?

i get her veg out the night before & put water in it & then in the morning before i go to work i teip the water off - but it is still wet when i give it to her.

she's a bit fussy on the veg side of things - she doesn't like carrot & i don't know what else to try her on. Is cabbage high in calcium?

what about green pepper?

 

[elve]

mine were suspicious of the bromelain at first but they had a nibble in the end and now love them.

Spring greens are in big supermarkets like tesco and sainsbury - they don't keep long though so smaller village shops don't bother stocking them. They're like pointy cabbage but less pale heart (which rabbits don't eat) and more dark green leaves.

If you get her veg out the night before it must be wilted by the next day surely? I keep my greens in the fridge till I feed them as wilted greens will cause tummy problems. I keep carrots in the pantry as they are too cold straight from the fridge, but she doesn't like them so that's not a problem.

I always wash each leaf under cold running water before feeding them though as I've often found mud and dead flies, bird muck etc. on them - very bad for their tums!

 

[michelle&holly]

hi thanks for that - wasn't sure what spring greens were

i put a lid on her food the night before & to be honest it looks as fresh as when i got it out of the fridge.

i know your not supposed to give them veg straight from the fridge but how cold is too cold for rabbits?

i also bought some supa rabbit excel lite today - so as she is already fine on pellets i'll mix them in & try and swap to these instead.

 

[elve]

Yeah I've heard this 'don't give veg from the fridge' thing too - and then there's the advice to 'give your bunnies ice lolly carrots in hot weather' :roll: what do you believe? :? I think icy cold carrots are thick and too cold in the middle, so I don't advise giving them straight from the fridge, but greens are leafy and thin and soon warm to room temperature.

By the time my bunnies get their washed and cut up and sorted into piles greens they aren't that cold any more. I take brocolli straight from the fridge too as it wilts easily - but only give them a tiny chunk so it's not that cold. To be honest their drinking water in winter is probably colder, so it seems a bit strang to warn against refridgerated veg - refridgeration stops germs multiplying and veg wilting, which is surely good

 

[michelle&holly]

to be honest i agree but i am never sure which advice to take.

i think i will give it a go in the mornings instead and see how she does.

i'm concerned as to what this lump is that the vet can feel & why it hasn't gone down.

i don't know about this ultrasound as well - presumably they would have to sedate her to do it?

 

[elve]

I don't know about ultrasound but I do know Maa had an abscess caused by a supposedly dissolveable stitch which never dissolved - they found it when they operated again, so that's a possiblility. I would ring the vets and ask about ultrasound prices and sedation if the lump persisits.

 

[raine]

Have a look at the Dana Krempel article on stasis. I cut out kale totally as one of my buns was very ill after eating it. What sort of quantities are you feeding the rocket, kale and parsley, and how often. Is the rocket pre-washed? If it is, it will be washed in chlorine unless you buy the spring water one, and I would avoid this. Could also be nothing to do with veg or diet, but you have to eliminate this. Tree (Soad) had a very ill bunny with stasis. Her bunny had ulcer treatment and that would be a good thread to look at. Some bunnies can have spurs which might not be evident on examining. Is she eating quite a bit of hay?

 

[michelle&holly]

Hi everyone

thanks for all your advice. we went back to the vet today to be checked over. I have been given Holly Bromelain tablets every other day & have been giving her less kale/parsley & more leafy greens.

the vet could still feel the lump in her stomach. He said it hasn't got bigger but is about the size of a walnut - he said it is quite jagged too.

i'm really worried this might be cancer - has anyone had any experince of a bunny with a tumour/abcess?

Also he has said i could arrange and ultrasound scan which would cost about £130.

i don't know what the best thing is to do. If she has a tumour does that mean she is going to die or will they operate & take it out?

Any help would be appreciated.

thanks from one very worried bunny owner

Michelle&Holly

 

[luvabun]

i'm really worried this might be cancer - has anyone had any experince of a bunny with a tumour/abcess?

Also he has said i could arrange and ultrasound scan which would cost about £130.

i don't know what the best thing is to do. If she has a tumour does that mean she is going to die or will they operate & take it out?

Any help would be appreciated.

thanks from one very worried bunny owner

Michelle&Holly

Hi Michelle. My 12 year old Molly was riddled with tumours I took her on at 11 years old, found the "masses" a month after I adopted her and she lived another 15 months quite happy so eve nif you decide not to have her operated on, it doesn't mean that she'll be going to the Bridge immediately. The Vet did say that surgery on bunnies intestines is rarely successful so the decision was made not to operate. Note: that was my Vets opinion, they do vary.....
I just made sure she had a fab life before she finally told me enough was enough.
Good luck

 

[michelle&holly]

Hi Michelle. My 12 year old Molly was riddled with tumours I took her on at 11 years old, found the "masses" a month after I adopted her and she lived another 15 months quite happy so eve nif you decide not to have her operated on, it doesn't mean that she'll be going to the Bridge immediately. The Vet did say that surgery on bunnies intestines is rarely successful so the decision was made not to operate. Note: that was my Vets opinion, they do vary.....
I just made sure she had a fab life before she finally told me enough was enough.
Good luck

Hi luvabun,

thanks for your message, i'm just so concerned as Holly is not even 2 years old yet - i thought this is quite young for tumours etc. We are booked in to go back on the 20th september to see if the lump has grown. i just don't want her to be in any pain or discomfort & although i wouldn't keep her in pain i feel sad as i haven't really had that much time with her & if she does go to the bridge i will feel a bit robbed if you know what i mean. i think turmoil is the only word i can use to describe how i feel - Holly is my first real pet & although i'm 23 i totally adore her like a i'm a little kid. I'm also shocked at the price of the ultrasound & the vet said the man doing it hasn't had a great deal of rabbit experience as not many owners would pay for this to be done.

Since she had injections last week for the GI symptoms she is back to normal eating etc - although she doesn't seem as full of beans as she used to - but i've been putting that down to the grotty weather - i have started leaving her out more in the rain as i know that any exercise she gets will help her gut keep moving.

I just didn't think i would have to deal with this sort of thing so soon after getting her.

 

[Pepsi's People]

I'm also shocked at the price of the ultrasound & the vet said the man doing it hasn't had a great deal of rabbit experience as not many owners would pay for this to be done.

At that price you would at least expect someone who has experience!

Our Lillie had an ultrasound on Monday done by our own vet (see separate post). She was sedated and had her fur shaved from her tummy. Although I'm not sure how conclusive it was, the cost for that plus tooth burring, painkillers etc and 2 nights at the vets came to under £80. Perhaps your vet could look for someone else with experience in rabbits and maybe at a more reasonable price.

Mike

 

[michelle&holly]

Ultrasound complete

Well hi all - just an update for everyone.

I took Holly for her ultrasound on friday (which cost me £153!!)

The vet said it could be one of 4 things:
- soft tissue mass (over compensating from spay op)
- dead fat (from spay op)
- abcess (unlikely)
- uterian cancer

He said her bladder or goes over it - but it cannot tell for sure if lump is connected to bladder or just surrounded by it.

He told me she needs to be operated on to have lump removed. To send it off to pathology to sort out what it is would alone cost £60 - not including the op.

I am going back to my vets on thursday to discuss it with them.

What do you guys think i should do? Leave it or get it sorted? She's just turned 2 yrs old & is not suffering at all at present.

I would really appreciate some suggestions/discussion.

Thanks
Michelle&Holly

 

[donnamt]

if it was Alvin id prob go for the operation but only if my vet said its the way to go..... i trust my vet 100% so if they thought it was worth a try id be willing to go for it... im also paying insurance to cover any surprises like what your poor bun is suffering with...

what does your vet recommend you do? and what does your heart tell you to do? must be awful if she keeps gettin poorly and noone knows what the lump is

 

[elve]

oooer what a price :shock:

I find it odd your vet suggests cancer of the uterus when she's been spayed though :roll: Is that what he said really? :shock:

I think, given her age and history, and my experience with my bunny Maa, it could well be an abscess caused from undisolved stitches from the spay - or maybe something was accidentally left inside her after surgery - it happens, but they aren't going to admit to that I'm sure :?

 

[Jupiter]

What about a second opinion?

 

[luvabun]

He told me she needs to be operated on to have lump removed. To send it off to pathology to sort out what it is would alone cost £60 - not including the op.

I am going back to my vets on thursday to discuss it with them.

What do you guys think i should do? Leave it or get it sorted? She's just turned 2 yrs old & is not suffering at all at present.

I would really appreciate some suggestions/discussion.

Thanks
Michelle&Holly

I would ask what are the chances of survival if she has the op (sorry to be so blunt but I don't know how to flower that up ) and also, what are her chances if she doesn't have it. I guess this will depend on what it is but they shold be able to give you some guidelines.

I've recently switched Vets and am really pleased with my rabbit savvy one (even though it costs me an arm and a leg) and he always tells me the chances/ worst case scenario.

Good luck.

 

[Jack's-Jane]

Goodness I am sorry your Bun has this problem
It sounds exactly the same scenario as a few Does I had (many years ago) who developed adhesions after a spay.
After 3 Does having 'corrective surgery' and not surviving I did not have surgery on the last affected Doe

GI surgery on Rabbits has a very poor success rate. The intestines often stop working and cant be restarted Also opening up the abdomen again just restarts the laying down of adhesions process so the problem is likely to recur a few months later (as it did with 3 of my affected Does )

I wish you and your Bun well whatever you decide

Janex

 

[michelle&holly]

what does your vet recommend you do? and what does your heart tell you to do? must be awful if she keeps gettin poorly and noone knows what the lump is

The vet that did the ultrasound (seperate vets - we were referred to them) really suggests i should have it removed & i asked him if she would be okay for surgery again. He seemed to think she would be fine - although re-iterating the risk you take with any operation.

Touch wood she has not been poorly now since August but i don't want to leave the lump in there as i'm scared it will be cancer & then i will regret it later on.

We're going back to my vets tomorrow to discuss it with him - i think he has the view that if she is happy & not getting ill - don't touch it. But i'm just not sure i could leave it.

Michelle&Holly

 

[michelle&holly]

I find it odd your vet suggests cancer of the uterus when she's been spayed though :roll: Is that what he said really? :shock:

The vet said that when they are doing a spay it is difficult to tell where to cut to remove the uterus so even if the tiniest bit was left - the cancer could develop on that small part.

I was quite surprised that he said this - i'm starting to wish i hadn't got her spayed now.

Michelle&Holly

 

[michelle&holly]

What about a second opinion?

I did think about that but then i would have to get another ultrasound done & i don't know any other vets near me that do it.

As my dad convinced me i wouldn't need insurance - i can't really afford to pay £153 again. I know it sounds very stingy when its Holly's welfare at stake but if i have to pay for an op as well...

Michelle&Holly