Feeding baby buns...losing weight....UD post 20

[RampantRabbits]

NOTE: These are the two buns that myself and Vegan_Bunny rescued and took straight to the vet 2 weeks ago. Currently on treatment for potential EC. Bilbo is blind (we think), but apart from this, both buns outwardly appear to be doing well....

I havent had a baby bun for over 3 years, when I had Skye, the consensus was unlimited pellets, although I would just feed enough so that there was a few left at the end of the day, then top up the following day.

...Now I believe its very much the same as adult buns? Bilbo and Isla are having 1/4 of a cup of Excel Junior & Dwarf each, unlimited hay, and I wouldnt normally feed any greens until 12-16 weeks, however they were already eating them when I saw them. I have cut out all veggies, apart from a few apple leaves/hawthorne, a small amount of parsley and yesterday i introduced them to a small amount of mint.

I have been weighing them weekly. Last week, Bilbo had gained weight and Isla had lost. I wasnt too worried as I appreciate that it may not be 100% accurate as their first weight was recorded from the vets scales. This week, both buns seem to have lost. Bilbo has lost 6g and Isla has lost 20g, despite having good appetites. I know this isnt a huge amount, but when they are barely 11 weeks old and weigh 875g and 736g, they cant really afford to be losing anything!

We're back at the vets on Tuesday, but I just wondered if Im feeding them enough, or if I can add in other things etc. Can they have things like excel dried herbs sprinkled in their hay now? I dont want to over feed other things, as I want to set them up as good hay eaters too. Im also going to get some junior ss to add in, as I will eventually be weaning them on to the adult version.

Any thoughts?

 

[Jbun]

Baby rabbits need more protein and other nutrients for growing, so will need more pellets than an adult rabbit would get. Some people recommend unlimited, but I've found that can be too much sometimes, especially if the bun isn't as inclined to keep eating hay. What has worked for me in the past, was feeding enough pellets to last most of the day, and let them run out about 3 hours before the next feeding so that they will then eat their hay while waiting for their next pellet feeding, and I feed twice a day. You basically want to feed just enough for good growth, while also ensuring they are still eating a pile of hay the size of their body each day for good digestive movement. The exception to this would be if the extra pellets are causing digestive problems and mushy poop or slow motility.

Another alternative would be feeding a leafy alfalfa hay. It's not as balanced as pellets would be, but it has higher protein so will help with weight gain.

And just follow basic food changes for rabbits, gradual increase.

 

[Fee]

Just bumping this for you..xxx

 

[tonibun]

I would tend to let them eat what they like at the moment and worry about the hay later. As long as they eat a little bit of hay they should be ok and as they get older they get more stuck into eating it. You can also give them fresh grass, Readigrass, dandelions etc and a good bowlfull of pellets. Hope they start to put on some weight soon.

 

[Vegan_Bunny]

I think some people feed a small handful of oats to help put weight on buns. I don't know if this would be ok for such young buns. If I was you I would chat to the vets and see what they say. It's difficult to get the diet right without causing too much gut upset. :?

I'd try the alfalfa hay, though. I think that would help.

 

[parsnipbun]

ours got whatever they wanted - hay, forage and pellets - mainly because they were with mum and thats what she was eating. But we deliberately let them eat more pellets than adults as they need so much to grow. Like a teenager!!

 

[RampantRabbits]

ours got whatever they wanted - hay, forage and pellets - mainly because they were with mum and thats what she was eating. But we deliberately let them eat more pellets than adults as they need so much to grow. Like a teenager!!

This was my thoughts too, but i read a post on here saying that people generally feed less pellets to young buns than they used to. They do have fab poos, Bilbos are the coveted golden poops :lol: BUT im worrying about giving him more pellets, as he does do some excess cecals. Im wondering if this is to do with the burgess, which is why im hoping to pick up some ss this week.

Ill mention it to the vet and see how we get on. Remember these guys are still needing forever homes too, so if anyone is interested

 

[tulsi]

When Frosty and Snowflake were babies they had excess caecels so I slightly cut down their burgess excell pellets and they were fine. They still had about three handfulls each. My belgian hare, Sunshine who was only a few months when I got him has four handfuls of pellets atm and is growing really fast.

 

[Santa]

The babies I'm fostering are about 8-9 weeks old now. Between the four of them I've been feeding them 2 handfuls of SS along with a wadge of hawthorn, willow, bramble and apple leaves morning and evening as well as unlimited hay, obviously. They have been steadily gaining weight - they've gone up from 420g when they were 5 weeks old to around 800g or so now. I do keep wondering whether I should up the quantity of foods while they're young and they are nearly double the size now, but they do seem to be gaining weight still so I don't want to change it too much as they seem to be about right and they are eating lots of hay. I do think there's a certain amount of trial and error with youngsters, especially ones who have had a poor start and whose guts might not be quite right, like two of these ones. Giving them an awful lot of hay and tough fibre seems to be working well for these little guys.

Hopefully you can find a diet which works well for your ones x

 

[parsnipbun]

we didnt feed burgess - we fed SS. We have in the past found that Burgess gives excess caecals.

 

[Tamsin]

Rabbit's, even youngsters, should be able to maintain weight on a fairly low calorie diet. They might not grow as big as fast (not necessarily a bad thing) but they should steadily increase and definitely not lose. How do they look body wise - too skinny or if you weren't weighing them you wouldn't be worried? I'd be much more concerned if they look skinny than if they look the right weight visually/by feel.

Fresh foods are fine if they were already eating them but sticking with forage types is a good idea. How are they at eating hay? Low pellets works because rabbits eat extra hay to compensate, so if they skip over the hay that could be the issue.

I think I would slightly up the pellet ration and/or introduce a bit of alfalfa - that's good because it's still hay like but has a bit of extra protein.

 

[RampantRabbits]

The babies I'm fostering are about 8-9 weeks old now. Between the four of them I've been feeding them 2 handfuls of SS along with a wadge of hawthorn, willow, bramble and apple leaves morning and evening as well as unlimited hay, obviously. They have been steadily gaining weight - they've gone up from 420g when they were 5 weeks old to around 800g or so now. I do keep wondering whether I should up the quantity of foods while they're young and they are nearly double the size now, but they do seem to be gaining weight still so I don't want to change it too much as they seem to be about right and they are eating lots of hay. I do think there's a certain amount of trial and error with youngsters, especially ones who have had a poor start and whose guts might not be quite right, like two of these ones. Giving them an awful lot of hay and tough fibre seems to be working well for these little guys.

Hopefully you can find a diet which works well for your ones x

Thanks, me too! Arent they a worry!? :lol: I dont know if Im possibly worrying too much, or what, but my own bunnies have been with Maysie and Mike for the last 12 months, so ive been bunnyless. Your bunny instincts kick back in, but i feel a bit like ive forgotten everything too! :roll:

we didnt feed burgess - we fed SS. We have in the past found that Burgess gives excess caecals.

I normally feed ss, but they were on burgess when i collected them, so didnt want to change them immediately. Ive got some coming on Wednesday, anyway.

Rabbit's, even youngsters, should be able to maintain weight on a fairly low calorie diet. They might not grow as big as fast (not necessarily a bad thing) but they should steadily increase and definitely not lose. How do they look body wise - too skinny or if you weren't weighing them you wouldn't be worried? I'd be much more concerned if they look skinny than if they look the right weight visually/by feel.

Fresh foods are fine if they were already eating them but sticking with forage types is a good idea. How are they at eating hay? Low pellets works because rabbits eat extra hay to compensate, so if they skip over the hay that could be the issue.

I think I would slightly up the pellet ration and/or introduce a bit of alfalfa - that's good because it's still hay like but has a bit of extra protein.

Its difficult to say, as we dont know exactly how old they are. We were initially led to believe that they were 4/5 months, that was obviously not the case as soon as we saw them. Bunny savvy vet estimated them to be 8/9 weeks, which would seem about right for their size...although Bilbo has a good pair of plumbs for a bun that age :shock: Anyway, from the look of them, I probably wouldnt worry, but they do look quite lean.

 

[Santa]

If there's a good pair of plums on show already, there's no way they can be 8-9 weeks old! It sounds to me as if they are just incredibly malnourished/poorly if they are only that weight but are showing signs of sexual maturity. Fingers crossed they can be got back onto the right path

 

[nessar]

I'd increase the pellets slowly and see how you go and keep an eye on their poos. They are both fighting illness at the moment, and that can take up a lot of calories, so I think more pelleted food is a good idea.

I agree that if his balls have dropped he is likely older than 9 weeks, but his growth may have been hampered by his bad start in life, his illness and a lack of nutrients. Do you know what they were fed before you got them? A severe drop in pellets would make them lose weight - even good diet changes must be done gradually or they can cause more harm than good, so perhaps they were on higher calorie diets before?

I'd also introduce some alfalfa, but make sure to introduce it gradually. I wouldn't use oats as I recently found out that carbs like oats are bad for their tummies and can slow down the gut - which is not what you want.

If you do change their pelleted food, do it very gradually, they are still young and have had a lot of changes recently so their tummies aren't going to be very stable at all. I am personally of the opinion that the 'excel causes excess caecotrophs' thing that everyone says is actually from back when excel was lower in fibre, a few years ago, and whilst higher fibre foods are better for bunnies with dodgy tums I don't think there is anything specifically in excel that causes it now it has gone from 16% fibre to 19%. So if you are going to change the food I wouldn't just swap it for something similar like SS, especially not SS Junior which has the same amount of fibre and more protein, I'd change it for something better for the tummy and much higher in fibre, like Supreme's VetCare Digestive or Fibafirst, which are 32% and 30% fibre respectively and have a high hay content. Their composition also makes them much more suitable for feeding in larger quantities than normal pellets, as they are gentler on the tummy, encourage hay eating and help with dental wear.

Remember as well that it is not just diet that can cause excess caecotrophs - stress is a massive cause. He's been through a lot and is still going through it, and he's very ill, so these things will take a toll on his system and his stress levels too.

 

[Vegan_Bunny]

We were confused about the fact that his plumbs were on show. He really is tiny but I seriously don't think he is 4-5 months old. They both still have their baby fur and are very much "baby bunnies".
He is a nethie cross and was wondering if some smaller breeds reach sexual maturity earlier than others?

After we sexed the others (none of which had anything on show) the girl apparently took them to the vet and the majority of them were sexed as boys. :? They were very fluffy but none of them had any plumbs (we were certain about that!) so we were thinking that maybe their bits dropped the day after we saw them? :? However, I don't believe much of what the girl said, so I can't say if they even went to the vets at all.

One thing I will mention is that the vet didn't seem to think it was strange that Bilbo has his plumbs at that age. :?

 

[RampantRabbits]

That girl and her lies has just caused so many problems. Things would be a lot clearer if she had been honest!! ...Re their age, im completely stumped if im honeset. They are very babyish, like Lauren said. Their fur and everything says young buns, but even with my own nethies, they never showed any signs of sexual maturity that early. I think the earliest Ive seen in my own Nethies is 12 weeks. I was begging my vet to do Skye by 4-5 months as she was just a terror.

They were on Excel Junior and Dwarf when we collected them, which is why they are still on it. I prefer SS, personally. I wont change their pellets then. Ill gradually increase them, and add in something with more fibre and see how we get on. I bought them one of those alfalfa rings each and some alfalfa bales as it was all i could get hold of without going online. Isla just enjoyed destroying the ring and hates the bales (but ive never known a bun enjoy those things yet!) and Bilbo has a nibble on his.

I was looking at some of the Oxbow supplements. Does anyone use these? Do the buns tend to like them? Is it worth trying, as they are pricey if they wont eat them, or are the fibafirst pellets a better bet?

I would sprinkle things in their hay, but with the EC risk, i dont want them eating anything not in a bowl if i can avoid it, obviously, hay is dfficult. I tried racks and glove boxes but they werent bothered, so its in their litter tray.

Anyway...ill keep trying! Im so worried about finding these guys suitable homes.

 

[cpayne]

I would give alfalfa hay, this is what my specialist said to give Doughnut when she had lost a lot of weight as it's builds them up.

 

[Vegan_Bunny]

How about giving them the protexin pellets as well? That should hopefully support their guts whilst you up their pellets and also change their food over. It's what I put Xena on to stop her excess cecals and loud gut sounds.

 

[RampantRabbits]

I thought about the ProFibre pellets.

Ive just been on THE and bought some alfalfa hay, vet care plus and some seeds, as they are used to grass, but cant go on ours at the moment and im having a job cutting it for them because Mum keeps mowing it! :lol:

Ill let you all know how they get on at the vets tonight, Im waiting for a message from Jane before hand though, so hopefully she picks it up in time.

 

[RampantRabbits]

Well they havent been weighed for 12 days, as I had to leave them with a bunny savvy friend while I headed back to uni for a few days of exams.

We added alfalfa hay and have increased pellets to half a cup per day, and they are also having 2-3 vet care plus sticks a day. In addition to this, theyre having ProC in their water. I weighed them this morning and Isla has put on 100g and is now at 970g (i do question the accuracy of my kitchen scales though as she doesnt sit still!) and Bilbo has gained 44g and is now at 780g! Lets hope they continue!

Everything was bleached before i went to uni, so it was safe and clean to come back to. My friend bleached everything in the setup at her house on Monday too. They have until this coming Monday on their Panacur and thats it. Back to the vets at some point next week for a review.

Bilbo isnt going to be vaccinated, as the vet is concerned about the possible side effects with him. Im going to wait and see how he goes as he gets bigger over the next few months. Isla may be able to have hers, we shall see.

Im growing grass in some trays for them now, but I think they will be able to go on the lawn before it grows!