Do you consider the calcium levels of the food you give your rabbits?

[The Duchess]

I currently have a rabbit of mine who is very poorly with excess calcium. She has been for xrays today because her meds were not helping her having had various tests that came back with excessive blood in her urine. She has today been diagnosed with both kidney stones and a large bladder stone. She has other health issues too but we have no choice but to try and remove the bladder stone. I have no way of knowing if this is diet related (she is 8 and I took her in coming up to 2 years ago) but since here she has had a very balanced diet with a small selection of veg daily, masses of hay and an egg cup full of SS.

I always consider calcium when getting the bunnies' teas ready and decide what veg to chop up accordingly.

I have been compiling a list of veg with their assorted calcium levels and am shocked quite frankly at the high levels in things like spring greens, broccoli and parsley.

I have always offered guidance to people who ask about a balanced diet but now realise just how important it can be.

Do you all ensure a balance? Do you know about calcium and the problems surrounding too much in a rabbit diet?

I don't think that enough is said about this particular subject and it's health implications. For example I never ever feed alflafa hay as the calcium content is far too high to fee freely.

What say you all?

 

[Bunny Buddy]

I watch calcium very closely now but totally agree that there isn't enough emphasis on understanding why it can be a problem. I doubt my early bunnies got enough calcium in their growing days as they had nasty museli that the only ate their favourite bits of.

I too knew about alfalfa and have never fed it but there's such a lot with moderate/high levels in that aren't that obvious.

Artie has had bladder sludge problems, diagnosed nearly two years ago but I'm pretty confident they have never been due to poor diet - I have to be careful what I feed him though so as not to make it worse. He had to have surgery and has his bladder expressed every few weeks - if a careful diet could avoid this then it would be well worth spending time and effort on. Rudy and Esme who have been with me a while have both had abdominal x-rays and I'm pleased to say both their bladders looked okay when last viewed.

 

[poppymoon]

i'm pretty careful with eric as he seems more prone to chalky wee than esme. i try to buy veg accordingly where possible and i do avoid alfalfa.

 

[areia]

im aware of calcium levels more so with my older buns biggles is 7 this year

I mainly feed my buns foods that are in season summer they seem to appreicate fruits herbs leaves more than in winter maybe due to higher water levels in fruit than veg

celery has high calcium too quite alot of green stuff contain high calcium

I add food that are known to be diuretic to help flush toxins out of the system, I dont know if this actualy helps

but as you say its all in the balance if you fed spinach every day you would get probs

carrots fruits berries apples are not good for the teeth but have high benifits for the body with acids that help break bad stuff in the body again if you just fed carrots your in for poss trouble

and of course providing lots of water, Ive found buns drink so much more out of a bowl than bottle so perhaps buns with high cal probs could benifit from more water in there diet too

 

[lildebs]

I try to be vigilant about it, they only get Parsley, Kale, carrot tops as a treat and not much of each ...I have just got some Kale which is a rare thing I buy, I tend to feed basil (which I think is ok) mint, dill, cauli leaves...but they do eat spring greens (is it very high?), I tend to sway away from brocolli and cabbage too with hearing about bloat, but they have bits if I'm running short of veg. Also I give them celery leaves and radish leaves when they're available in the year and so cut other things out of their diet, like Kale/Parsley etc
All the foods I give them are in moderation.
ETA also the foraging goodies...bramble, plantain, dandilion

 

[helgalush]

Sorry to hear about your bunny Helen.

Yes I watch the calcium for my two bunnies that have urinary and renal issues. I have one list of the amounts that someone gave to me, dont know if you have/want me to PM it to you - sounds like you already have it or something similar.

I'm also mindful of not giving things with too much sugar or those that can cause gas...its difficult to get the balance just right. I am trying to focus more on herbs and leaves and hope to grow my own this year (if I ever get round to sowing my seeds). All of them love celery and the white bit of cauliflower, except for Twinkle and Star who love all things green and sweet :roll:

Strangely though I still feed things like spring greens, parsley, broccoli etc to Twinkle & Star and am now wondering if I ought not to be?

 

[The Duchess]

I watch calcium very closely now but totally agree that there isn't enough emphasis on understanding why it can be a problem. I doubt my early bunnies got enough calcium in their growing days as they had nasty museli that the only ate their favourite bits of.

I too knew about alfalfa and have never fed it but there's such a lot with moderate/high levels in that aren't that obvious.

Artie has had bladder sludge problems, diagnosed nearly two years ago but I'm pretty confident they have never been due to poor diet - I have to be careful what I feed him though so as not to make it worse. He had to have surgery and has his bladder expressed every few weeks - if a careful diet could avoid this then it would be well worth spending time and effort on. Rudy and Esme who have been with me a while have both had abdominal x-rays and I'm pleased to say both their bladders looked okay when last viewed.

You see I don't think that Tululah's is dietary either. Although she did come from a rescue in her early days before she was adopted by the lady I had her from.

In fact her xrays show that she has osteopaenia in her leg bones, calcified tendons, and her joints are very arthritic too. How does that happen other than the body not using calcium correctly? Wierd and very upsetting when you do your best to regulate what your bunnies eat. Interestingly (being a Frenchie) her leg bones are bent too - suggesting lack of calcium when growing, well either that or accommodation that was far too small and she didn't get any exercise.

I agree that there are many sources of too much calcium - some pelleted foods have very high levels, which is one reason I am now weaing my lot over to at the very least a mixture of SS and Bunny Basics T (which has no alfalfa at all).

I'm glad you are able to manage Arte with diet and expressing, I just hope that I can do the same post op for Tally, because we sadly have no option but to attempt removal.

 

[Elena]

I try to be vigilant too. The only thing they regularly get with a lot of calcium in is parsley. No spring greens or broccoli here, or at least, not very often. Sometimes they get kale but again not very often.

I am surprised to hear that it's in spring greens though as I always assumed they were quite good run of the mill things to give every day.

 

[helgalush]

im aware of calcium levels more so with my older buns biggles is 7 this year

I mainly feed my buns foods that are in season summer they seem to appreicate fruits herbs leaves more than in winter maybe due to higher water levels in fruit than veg

celery has high calcium too quite alot of green stuff contain high calcium

I add food that are known to be diuretic to help flush toxins out of the system, I dont know if this actualy helps

but as you say its all in the balance if you fed spinach every day you would get probs

carrots fruits berries apples are not good for the teeth but have high benifits for the body with acids that help break bad stuff in the body again if you just fed carrots your in for poss trouble

and of course providing lots of water, Ive found buns drink so much more out of a bowl than bottle so perhaps buns with high cal probs could benifit from more water in there diet too

Oh no is it? I've been feeding them celery

 

[The Duchess]

im aware of calcium levels more so with my older buns biggles is 7 this year

I mainly feed my buns foods that are in season summer they seem to appreicate fruits herbs leaves more than in winter maybe due to higher water levels in fruit than veg

celery has high calcium too quite alot of green stuff contain high calcium

I add food that are known to be diuretic to help flush toxins out of the system, I dont know if this actualy helps

but as you say its all in the balance if you fed spinach every day you would get probs

carrots fruits berries apples are not good for the teeth but have high benifits for the body with acids that help break bad stuff in the body again if you just fed carrots your in for poss trouble

and of course providing lots of water, Ive found buns drink so much more out of a bowl than bottle so perhaps buns with high cal probs could benifit from more water in there diet too

Agree. This has been noted in some recent research Zoe, that rabbits that are bottle fed don't get the same levels of fluids as those with bowls; this must be an issue, with the lack of flushing through I would have thought.

 

[helgalush]

I agree that there are many sources of too much calcium - some pelleted foods have very high levels, which is one reason I am now weaing my lot over to at the very least a mixture of SS and Bunny Basics T (which has no alfalfa at all).

.

Do you know which pellets are high in calcium please? :wave:

 

[The Duchess]

Oh no is it? I've been feeding them celery

Celery would be considered moderate calcium at about 41mg per cup

 

[SarahP]

As you say, most pellets are alfalfa-based too, so lots of calcium there.

Personally I think hard water might have a lot to answer for in certain areas.

 

[Barn Yard Bunnies]

Yes I do now, thanks to meeting Lisa at the event at Bagshot and RU.

Sorry I missed you.

Instead of a whole bag of greens, only a single leaf now and again. I have massively reduced all green veggies. :wave:

 

[The Duchess]

Do you know which pellets are high in calcium please? :wave:

I don't Helen I am afraid but it is something that I am going to be looking into. I think Tamsin has done a breakdown of all pellets somewhere here on RU.

 

[SarahP]

I'm not sure if it's important with bunnies in the same way it is for piggies, but you have to be careful with piggies not to lower the calcium content too much, as the phosphorus content then goes really high - ie the veg that is low in calcium is high in phosphorus.

 

[The Duchess]

As you say, most pellets are alfalfa-based too, so lots of calcium there.

Personally I think hard water might have a lot to answer for in certain areas.

I think you are right and so when bunnies like my Tululah who eats hay for England drinks loads as a result, it will not be helping. A friend of mine who has gone through this with one of her rainbow bridge piggies has just messaged me what she did and using bottled water was one thing. Apparently it's suggested that the flouride in tap water can be bad too.

 

[The Duchess]

I'm not sure if it's important with bunnies in the same way it is for piggies, but you have to be careful with piggies not to lower the calcium content too much, as the phosphorus content then goes really high - ie the veg that is low in calcium is high in phosphorus.

They need the phosphorus to process the calcium so I guess that would figure. Carrots are good for phosphorus. It's a minefield isn't it.

 

[helgalush]

I don't Helen I am afraid but it is something that I am going to be looking into. I think Tamsin has done a breakdown of all pellets somewhere here on RU.

Thanks for the info about the celery. Here is a link for the breakdown on RR http://www.rabbitrehome.org.uk/care/rabbitfood.asp

It doesnt have the calcium content for A&P (which includes Alfalfa) or Science Selective, however I tried to google myself and found this old thread:

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=117895

which suggests that A&P has 0.59% calcium. Dont know if that helps at all.

 

[Bunny Buddy]

im aware of calcium levels more so with my older buns biggles is 7 this year

I mainly feed my buns foods that are in season summer they seem to appreicate fruits herbs leaves more than in winter maybe due to higher water levels in fruit than veg

celery has high calcium too quite alot of green stuff contain high calcium

I add food that are known to be diuretic to help flush toxins out of the system, I dont know if this actualy helps

but as you say its all in the balance if you fed spinach every day you would get probs

carrots fruits berries apples are not good for the teeth but have high benifits for the body with acids that help break bad stuff in the body again if you just fed carrots your in for poss trouble

and of course providing lots of water, Ive found buns drink so much more out of a bowl than bottle so perhaps buns with high cal probs could benifit from more water in there diet too

Yes, this is definitely true. It's likely that Artie has had his bladder sludge for a long time before it was diagnosed (at 4.5 years old) and he has always drunk a lot more than the other rabbits, as if he knew he needed to. At the moment he is on a diuretic to make him drink/urinate more so that in theory it will flush more calcium out. *touches wood* it appears to be helping him.