fluffiebunnie
Warren Veteran
I worry about the combined vaccine due to the fact Twinkle caught full myxi rather than nodules when she was supposed to be protected with the combo jab.
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Combined Vaccination
- Thread starter Snowy
- Start date
Rupert & Tia
Mama Doe
I have a bad feeling about the combined vaccine, my two are due their myxi in a months time, and the vets have put aside the single vaccine for myxi for them. I know they'll have to have the combined in 6 months time, and it makes me feel sick to the stomach.
I know alot of bunnies have had it with no problems, but what concerns me is the bunnies who DID have issues - no one ever answers when you say 'had they previously been vaccinated?'.
I know alot of bunnies have had it with no problems, but what concerns me is the bunnies who DID have issues - no one ever answers when you say 'had they previously been vaccinated?'.
Snowy
Wise Old Thumper
Since last night I have also heard of another 2 cases that is also being dealt with by the vets, personally I am finding these reports rather alarming, the combined vaccination is supposed to protect rabbits and not kill them, and to have 5 rabbits die after having the combined vaccination is 5 too many for my liking, there is obviously a problem somewhere with the new combined vaccination
It lasts 12 months rather than 6 so is still better. Plus the fact that it's combined means fewer stressful trips to the vet.
Bunny Buddy
Wise Old Thumper
I was told by someone when I first got rabbits that their two rabbits had "died after" having the single myxo vaccination and they said the vaccine had killed them. These were people running a pet shop and no doubt a lot of rabbits would have been left unvaccinated on the strength of this woman's conviction that the vaccine killed her rabbits.
I came to the same conclusion as KarenM a few posts back that the efficacy of the previous vaccine has to be questioned if they died only 3 days after combined vaccination - surely the previous vaccination should have protected them? For me, 5 dying shortly after vaccination (out of thousands vaccinated) is not strong enough evidence that the vaccine killed them them or that it's dangerous. Even studying cases of the vaccine failing there's a lot of background factors to take into account before writing it off as not working adequately.
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aliceechamberlain
Mama Doe
I am one of the rescues Theo has mentioned. I was always really cautious about the combi vaccination, not just for the reasons of protection, but also if you are not a super dooper rabbit owner you may miss something wrong with your rabbit. If they go 3 times a year, a problem can be picked up earlier, rather than it rumble on for 12 months. With the best will in the world new rabbit owners have a steep learning curve anyway. How many of us are still learning every day about this complex creatures?
On the protection side I was worried as they have not proved how well protected a rabbit is against myxo at the 6 month and longer period. And then I heard and read so many different ideas about some who have never been vaccinated will be better protected against one of the viruses, and if they have been vaccinated before their protection will not be as good against the other.
I am not a scientist, and to be honest, I felt it was all above my head somewhat.
So, I discussed it with a few vets who also shared my concerns. But, as intervet is some huge drug company it appeared us, the clients had little or no choice. However, my vet is able to get single vaccinations in still, as are, I understand Woods vets. So, why are other vets not stocking it?
One of the 3 vets only supplies the combi anyway, and he thinks we just have to wait and see what happens. My own vet, Beth Keyte, and Jason Burgess said we will return to the single vaccinations if enough problems are picked up and registered. But, this means owners paying for PM's etc.
I took 4 very thin bedraggled doe rabbits in early Sept. As they were undernourished I decided to get them vaccinated with the combi on 21 Sept, and wait for them to recover before getting them neutered.
They were booked in for neutering on 7 Nov. On 6 Nov in the afternoon Periwinkle died. I had two friends working in the bunny barn, she had been cleaned out and was eating. When the girls put the pellets in Zoe hopped out of her litter tray, Periwinkle was dead with a mouthful of hay. She had not uttered a noise.
Periwinkle was the least strong of the 4, at somestage her tail had been slammed in a hutch door (before she came to me), and it had dried up. She was the smallest and thinnest, but at the time of her death she was a good size and so happy.
I put it behind me and decided to keep going ahead with my plans for neutering, it had to be done anyway. All the rabbits were fine after neutering.
On the 8 Nov my vet rang in the morning. Zoe was dead, she had cabbage in her mouth and blood coming from her nose. The PM was not conclusive, so a piece of her liver went for histology. it was VHD.
Intervet say Zoe must have been under par which is why she caught VHD. Many of the rabbits here are 'under par', they have not died (yet, oh please god). And, I have been running a rescue for 13 years, I have never lost a rabbit to VHD yet. Is it luck? I don't know.
A vet practise in Evesham is reporting a large number of deaths in rabbits vaccinated with the combi, they are dying from myxo.
Intervet told my vet they have not had as many cases of deaths reported with the combi vaccination as with the single ones, and my 2 VHD's were the only they knew about. I then found another vet practise had contacted them with suspicion of VHD. To be fair I have since learnt it was pneumonia, but, they were being looked into at the same time mine were.
I spoke to the vet who supplies the combi only yesterday. He said there is alot of concern among vets about the vaccination and it is often being reported in the 'Vets weekly newspaper'. He thinks we have to wait and see and should not panic.
I am devastated. I feel Periwinkle and Zoe may still be alive if I had not gone down the route of the combi. It was a cheaper option, and with my sporadic knowledge I felt it was the right thing to do. I now wish I had listened to my instincts and dug my heels in. I wish the vets would group together and tell Intervet this is not acceptable. I feel we 'the simpletons' if you like are being told to be quiet and stop making a fuss.
Maybe with a few tweaks they will rectify the vaccine, but,there is definately something not right. Start asking vets questions, they do not all want to admit it. One of the vets at my practise is advising her rabbit owners there is a break down in some of the new vaccinations as she feels they have a right to know and they have a right to another option. I told her I was not saying much as I did not want to frighten people, maybe even I was hoping it would go away. She felt I had every right to scream from the rooftops.
Sorry for the long post, I seldom get the time to come on here and now I have bored you with a novel :roll:
On the protection side I was worried as they have not proved how well protected a rabbit is against myxo at the 6 month and longer period. And then I heard and read so many different ideas about some who have never been vaccinated will be better protected against one of the viruses, and if they have been vaccinated before their protection will not be as good against the other.
I am not a scientist, and to be honest, I felt it was all above my head somewhat.
So, I discussed it with a few vets who also shared my concerns. But, as intervet is some huge drug company it appeared us, the clients had little or no choice. However, my vet is able to get single vaccinations in still, as are, I understand Woods vets. So, why are other vets not stocking it?
One of the 3 vets only supplies the combi anyway, and he thinks we just have to wait and see what happens. My own vet, Beth Keyte, and Jason Burgess said we will return to the single vaccinations if enough problems are picked up and registered. But, this means owners paying for PM's etc.
I took 4 very thin bedraggled doe rabbits in early Sept. As they were undernourished I decided to get them vaccinated with the combi on 21 Sept, and wait for them to recover before getting them neutered.
They were booked in for neutering on 7 Nov. On 6 Nov in the afternoon Periwinkle died. I had two friends working in the bunny barn, she had been cleaned out and was eating. When the girls put the pellets in Zoe hopped out of her litter tray, Periwinkle was dead with a mouthful of hay. She had not uttered a noise.
Periwinkle was the least strong of the 4, at somestage her tail had been slammed in a hutch door (before she came to me), and it had dried up. She was the smallest and thinnest, but at the time of her death she was a good size and so happy.
I put it behind me and decided to keep going ahead with my plans for neutering, it had to be done anyway. All the rabbits were fine after neutering.
On the 8 Nov my vet rang in the morning. Zoe was dead, she had cabbage in her mouth and blood coming from her nose. The PM was not conclusive, so a piece of her liver went for histology. it was VHD.
Intervet say Zoe must have been under par which is why she caught VHD. Many of the rabbits here are 'under par', they have not died (yet, oh please god). And, I have been running a rescue for 13 years, I have never lost a rabbit to VHD yet. Is it luck? I don't know.
A vet practise in Evesham is reporting a large number of deaths in rabbits vaccinated with the combi, they are dying from myxo.
Intervet told my vet they have not had as many cases of deaths reported with the combi vaccination as with the single ones, and my 2 VHD's were the only they knew about. I then found another vet practise had contacted them with suspicion of VHD. To be fair I have since learnt it was pneumonia, but, they were being looked into at the same time mine were.
I spoke to the vet who supplies the combi only yesterday. He said there is alot of concern among vets about the vaccination and it is often being reported in the 'Vets weekly newspaper'. He thinks we have to wait and see and should not panic.
I am devastated. I feel Periwinkle and Zoe may still be alive if I had not gone down the route of the combi. It was a cheaper option, and with my sporadic knowledge I felt it was the right thing to do. I now wish I had listened to my instincts and dug my heels in. I wish the vets would group together and tell Intervet this is not acceptable. I feel we 'the simpletons' if you like are being told to be quiet and stop making a fuss.
Maybe with a few tweaks they will rectify the vaccine, but,there is definately something not right. Start asking vets questions, they do not all want to admit it. One of the vets at my practise is advising her rabbit owners there is a break down in some of the new vaccinations as she feels they have a right to know and they have a right to another option. I told her I was not saying much as I did not want to frighten people, maybe even I was hoping it would go away. She felt I had every right to scream from the rooftops.
Sorry for the long post, I seldom get the time to come on here and now I have bored you with a novel :roll:
it seems to me that the vaccine needs a strong, healthy rabbit to provide a full immune response, more so that the singles, though I'm sure the singles too required a healthy immune system to provide a response too.Rupert & Tia
Mama Doe
my vets had to ask round for the single myxi vaccine, and managed to get two, so they're put aside for us for when the booster is due (end of dec) x
Hesperus
Warren Veteran
A very clear post thank you!
But I must just disagree with this section a little bit. My vets who have moved to the annual vaccination are now offering very discounted health checks for rabbits every 6 months. So, if you get the vaccination then after 6 months they send you a voucher and a reminder, so really, there are ways around this. It works out at the same price including the health check per year as it did with single vaccinations.
Other than that I don't really know enough about the vaccinations to comment, but if there are concerns I'd definitely like them to be in the public domain rather than being hushed up!
Snowy
Wise Old Thumper
Totally agree:thumb:
aliceechamberlain
Mama Doe
That is really good your vet is doing this. But, if people do not notice anything they may not take their rabbit to the vet for a check up thinking it is not necessary because they do not think anything is wrong, even if it is.
RedFraggle
Warren Veteran
Absolutely, please if you have been directly affected, report the incident to VMD using the links provided in my previous post. I work in medicines regulation and know how it works and it's the best course of action and also the right thing to do to ensure the medicines we get for our animals are acceptably safe and effective.
If your vet won't do it then please do it yourself.
You should also report it to the manufacturer.
Comment on VHD diagnosed after vaccination
I noted the thread and speculation on this forum and felt that as a veterinary surgeon working for the manufacturer and with a good understanding of its performance to date I should comment. Nobivac Myxo-RHD has no living RHD (VHD) virus contained within- effectively it contains only a fragment of DNA which is not reponsible for the living virus's ability to cause disease. Based on this fact it is impossible for the vaccine to cause RHD. Being a novel vaccine the product has had to have an extensive amount of rigorous safety work done for regulatory approval including use at considerable overdose in the youngest and most susceptible rabbits for which it is intended without significant safety concerns.
When its your rabbit that has developed disease after vaccination it can be hard to recognise the possible (although rare) chance of coincidental disease but our experience with both the old Myxo product (which didnt of course have any RHD in it at all!) and the new one is that this type of report is occasionally received. Myxomatosis is common and widespread and our experience is that RHD is widespread and endemic in wild rabbits too although very much underdiagnosed and underrecognised- largely because of a lack of post mortem examinations.
I understand the speculation and as with any vaccine it will not be able to save every rabbit from these serious infectious diseases and will not always be free of any possible adverse reaction but it does provide a step change in our ability to protect rabbits and is from both the studies required for regulatory authority approval and from feedback from vets using the product well tolerated.
The proportion of rabbits vaccinated against these killer diseases is we estimate only around 15% which is I believe is scandalous since myxomatosis is the most common preventable pet killer disease seen in small animal practice.
It is highly important that suspected adverse events have the chance of proper investigation of course and we would encourage any of you to report concerns preferably via your vets to through the appropriate channels so they can be properly addressed and investigated. However it would be a great shame if a misunderstanding of these types of reports of adverse events lead to low levels of vaccine take up.
I noted the thread and speculation on this forum and felt that as a veterinary surgeon working for the manufacturer and with a good understanding of its performance to date I should comment. Nobivac Myxo-RHD has no living RHD (VHD) virus contained within- effectively it contains only a fragment of DNA which is not reponsible for the living virus's ability to cause disease. Based on this fact it is impossible for the vaccine to cause RHD. Being a novel vaccine the product has had to have an extensive amount of rigorous safety work done for regulatory approval including use at considerable overdose in the youngest and most susceptible rabbits for which it is intended without significant safety concerns.
When its your rabbit that has developed disease after vaccination it can be hard to recognise the possible (although rare) chance of coincidental disease but our experience with both the old Myxo product (which didnt of course have any RHD in it at all!) and the new one is that this type of report is occasionally received. Myxomatosis is common and widespread and our experience is that RHD is widespread and endemic in wild rabbits too although very much underdiagnosed and underrecognised- largely because of a lack of post mortem examinations.
I understand the speculation and as with any vaccine it will not be able to save every rabbit from these serious infectious diseases and will not always be free of any possible adverse reaction but it does provide a step change in our ability to protect rabbits and is from both the studies required for regulatory authority approval and from feedback from vets using the product well tolerated.
The proportion of rabbits vaccinated against these killer diseases is we estimate only around 15% which is I believe is scandalous since myxomatosis is the most common preventable pet killer disease seen in small animal practice.
It is highly important that suspected adverse events have the chance of proper investigation of course and we would encourage any of you to report concerns preferably via your vets to through the appropriate channels so they can be properly addressed and investigated. However it would be a great shame if a misunderstanding of these types of reports of adverse events lead to low levels of vaccine take up.
Mrs. Bunnykins
Wise Old Thumper
My local vets are now using the combined vaccination. Estelle and Frankie had no bad effects....fortunately.
They will be going back 6 months later though for a thorough bunny MOT.:thumb:
They will be going back 6 months later though for a thorough bunny MOT.:thumb:
Hugo's There
Wise Old Thumper
So sad that only 15% of pet rabbits are vaccinated. I was hoping it would be much higher than that even if was still the minority.......
Thank you very much for taking the time to reply and explain how the VHD part of the vaccination works. A lot of the information is very technical so it can be tricky for pet owners to get their head around exactly what things mean.
It would be great to increase the uptake of vaccinations, we get so many people looking for help with rabbits that have caught myxi and it's such a horrible disease to see a rabbit with.
If you've got a moment, I wonder if you could explain something that's puzzled me for while. Every year we get a few people whose rabbits have a 'nodular' form of myxi, rather than the full symptoms and this is almost invariably in vaccinated rabbits. Does the vaccination some how give partial protection and change the symptoms or is it a different strain (but then why doesn't it show up much in unvaccinated rabbits?). It seems much milder and more survivable which is a bonus of the vaccine even if it doesn't offer 100% protection.
RedFraggle
Warren Veteran
With respect to the questions on nodular myxi, the label claim is to "reduce mortality and clinical signs" and most vaccinated rabbits will survive that. The vaccine doesn't claim to 100% stop rabbits from getting myxi but it dramatically improves the rabbits chances of survival and if they do get it they show less symptoms.
