bonding disaster - update 10/04/13

[natsusakura]

Just caught up on this thread.......I myself would do the cat carrier as your vet suggested......
.I'm in the middle of bonding redge our hare and our new girl Luna who is a tan......they have been the worse bond I have ever done and I can now see why others give up.
If you need any help give us a shout ......I know they were a injury last time but I would try again...

When we bonded Angel and Bailey we did the car journey thing.
We first brought Angel upto Fairly Beloved Rabbit Care's house, and Angel and Bailey were introduced there.
We had them in the same cat carrier to go home which was 40min journey, then when we got in we let them in a small pen in our kitchen with me sitting inside it to break up anything major. We fed them in this pen together and made sure there was lots of herbs to nom.
Whenever it felt it was too stressful we gave them both noserubs pushing them together so their heads were side by side. ( to this day they actually both now sit together like this on purpose to get noserubs together)
At night we had 2 ferplast cages side by side in our room, we put them in the same cage and I half slept really just dozed and if I heard too much scuffling etc I put one of them into the empty ferplast.
We did this combination of a car journey at the start of each date, about 20 mins driving around round abouts, then time in small pen gradually increasing pen size as they got more comfortable with each other, to eventually using the pen to corden off half the kitchen and create their set up.
Took about a week and a bit to do in total, and had to take them the odd car journey when Bailey acted up and nipped Angel a bit too much.
Good luck if you decide to try again!
It is a harrowing nerve wracking thing to do but worth it when it works out xxxx

 

[Crunchie]

Tried again at ShazzaBunny's last night. They were OK when they were in a puppy pen but as soon as they went into a large hutch she went for him again and this was completely neutral territory.

We now have them back at my flat with the hallway seperated by a baby gate. Is it possible the usual rule of keeping them in an enclosed space just isn't working for this pair and we would be best trying to bond them somewhere more open?

 

[natsusakura]

Tried again at ShazzaBunny's last night. They were OK when they were in a puppy pen but as soon as they went into a large hutch she went for him again and this was completely neutral territory.

We now have them back at my flat with the hallway seperated by a baby gate. Is it possible the usual rule of keeping them in an enclosed space just isn't working for this pair and we would be best trying to bond them somewhere more open?

personally id be inclined to try in an even smaller space.
We had a puppy pen used to bond angel and bailey it was 6 panels.
We had to reduce it down to 4 and put it up one by one till there was half the kitchen panelled off.
Bailey chased angel if there was too much space, have you tried giving them noserubs side by side?
A and b have now learned that if they sit side by side they get noserubs together. good luck!!

 

[Collielover]

I wouldd agree a smallller space and leave them in that for atleast a week ...did Bunny give u any ideass to. Try

 

[Crunchie]

I am very wary of putting them in a small space together due to the way they went at each other last time. Jack is so small and energetic that he leaps and jumps about even in a small space, this is in total contrast to Honey and I think it stresses her. I also think Jack would also go stark raving mental in a small space as well.

It's trying to find a small space I could keep them in for a week as well is a problem. My bathroom isn't really safe for them unsupervised, I'd rather not have them in the animal room as my reptiles and amphibians are in there and if any of them escaped then I expect the rabbits would kill them. My boyfriends dog is in the living room (mine has been evicted from the house) which only leaves the kitchen and the rats live there.

Neither Jack nor Honey like being stroked much so the noserubs side by side idea is a no-go too.

 

[Collielover]

I am very wary of putting them in a small space together due to the way they went at each other last time. Jack is so small and energetic that he leaps and jumps about even in a small space, I think this is annoying Honey.

As I personally haven't seen what's going on really can't comment really what I would try but I know from bonding 2 off my own as i normally would do in a 6 by 4 pen I had to use a small inside space as our hare latched on the same as the boy did and caused a injury ...but close supervition for a few more days separating with water bottle etc they finally got the message it was except able behaviour....I kept them in the small cage for a week with only time out whilst it was being cleaned I must admit I nearly gave up the first few days and to be honest pro ally would if they weren't my own bunnies......

 

[Crunchie]

The next time I have off is Saturday, I'm unsure if I can get an indoor cage or pen by then but as I have the whole day free I was planning to let them into the bathroom and just sit in there with them for the day.

 

[Collielover]

Can let you borrow the cage I use if that would help I only use it if a bunny needs brought inside after spays etc....I'm next to the stadium

 

[Crunchie]

We completely forgot that we have a small indoor cage (Zoozone 2) in the house which we used for Frasier our syrian hamster.

We tried the pair of them in it last night at around 6pm and they've been in there since then. Every now and then they have a minor scuffle involving fur pulling but there has been no latching on from either of them this time. My boyfriend is on patrol today and I've asked him to take a note of how many times he has to bang the cage to divert their attention from each other. He had to do so 4 times during the night between midnight and 6am when I got up (he's off today so could stay up with them). I've also asked him to note the times so we can tell if the scuffles are getting further apart or what.

How long should we keep them in the Zoozone for? It seems cruel to keep them in it for more than a couple of days.

It's always Honey that's the aggressor , Jack has been constantly asking her to groom him and at times she relents but I've not seen him groom her yet.

 

[Collielover]

Sent you a pm

 

[natsusakura]

it seems cruel just now but it will be worth it in the end. Id keep them in the zoozone, overnight, and do car journeys short 15mins ones. And then when its excercise time get a small puppy panel, when they start flopping out, and are happy to sit next to each other and are happy to eat that's when id increase pen size gradually, you'll know the right time yourself, ita when you can trust them if you get what i mean

 

[Crunchie]

The two are co-existing in the Zoozone cage and have been for 24 hours now. There's a bit of grooming going on and I have picture evidence that they've been lying down together but every now and then Honey has a wee nip at his bum. is this just her trying to cement her position as boss and putting him in his place or is there something more sinister going on?

 

[natsusakura]

The two are co-existing in the Zoozone cage and have been for 24 hours now. There's a bit of grooming going on and I have picture evidence that they've been lying down together but every now and then Honey has a wee nip at his bum. is this just her trying to cement her position as boss and putting him in his place or is there something more sinister going on?

I'd say the wee nip is just her telling him to move out the way.
Like 'you're in my space'
Bailey still nips Angel to get her to move, when you get them into a puppy pen don't increase the size dramatically from what they are used to, otherwise you could find it goes backwards and you need to go back to the bonding zoozone.
Piccies?

 

[Crunchie]

After grooming him for near on ten mins she's just lunged at him and chased him about the cage, was really hoping they were past the worst.

 

[natsusakura]

After grooming him for near on ten mins she's just lunged at him and chased him about the cage, was really hoping they were past the worst.

it takes time, 1 step forward and 2 back sometimes.
You just need to persevre.
Bailey is chasing angel at the minute.
I'm looking after my cousins rabbit and beause they can smell him from the kitchen there is some reffered aggression.
I've been having to sit them together and put them in a carier to stop him chasing her.
Keep the chin up!! it all sounds good from what you're telling me
You already know fbrc aye?
David was really helpful when I needed bonding tips, and I'm sure you can ask shazzabunny too.
Keep going!!!! And make sure you get a wee rest as well, if you're stressed out they can pick up on it.
There was a few times where I just sat and cried during bonding, it was when I got like that, that I had to remove myself from the situation take 5 mins to sit and relax.
It can be so frustrating at times.

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/s...ng-well-pics-D&highlight=angel+bailey+bonding

Just found my thread on their bond, I never kept it as updated as I planned to, but life gets busy sometimes
*hugs* xxxx

 

[Crunchie]

Today they seem a lot more relaxed and she seems much more willing to let him go about his bunny business. Last night it was almost as if she was keeping him confined to one corner of the cage.

They have been more affectionate with each other today and are currently flopped out side by side. We had the cage in our hallway last night and I heard a kerfuffle (great word that) at around 7.30am. When I looked however they both stopped what they were doing. I'm not sure if they were scuffling again or if perhaps he was trying to dash about.

We will see how things go tonight and if all is well tomorrow we will increase the space a bit again and see how they go.

When someone makes a scary noise, hide under Honey

hay munching

and of course THAT piece of hay turned into the best piece of hay in the entire world as soon as Jack picked it up.

 

[natsusakura]

Awwww it all looks good

 

[Crunchie]

Awwww it all looks good

It's all looked good twice before, I'm not getting my hopes up.

 

[Fee]

Aww that hay pic looks lovely, hope all goes well....

Fee xxx

 

[parsnipbun]

Although I have occasionally had bonds work long term that have started off like this one I have to say I have had others where after all the effort etc a few months down the line we have had to separate due to a big bust up again. With so many buns here and fluctuating groups we now keep a list of buns who really do not like each other.