After-effects of a GA? Or something else...

[RogerRabbit999]

You are so knowledgable Roger Rabbit

It is my vet that is so knowledgable, and he taught me so much, and because of him I had nearly 4 extra years with my amazing 'special needs' bunny Roger. Roger was deaf, and had a stroke and was paralysed down his right side, so with Simon's help and support I quickly had to get to grips with all manner of things I would never have dreamt of having to do. In total Simon saved Roger's life 4 times, and each incident presented it's own new set of problems that I then had to learn from Simon how to manage so that Roger still had a good quality of life. Being a Paramedic though, there have been a few things I have been able to resolve myself just by applying how I would treat a patient to how I then treated Roger. His head tilt for example was completely reversed by preparing him an 'action plan' of physio, massage and heat treatment, to keep his muscles supple so that it was not given the opportunity to become a permanent fixture, and it didn't.

 

[cpayne]

Wow that's amazing. You should set up a little practice of your own for head tilt, a bet a lot of rabbits who have it could either be cured or not so severe.

I had no idea about rabbits before I got Doughnut and have been on a steep learning curve since. Since she's been ill I know lots about medication, herbs, leaves and her general behaviour.

 

[RogerRabbit999]

Wow that's amazing. You should set up a little practice of your own for head tilt, a bet a lot of rabbits who have it could either be cured or not so severe.

I had no idea about rabbits before I got Doughnut and have been on a steep learning curve since. Since she's been ill I know lots about medication, herbs, leaves and her general behaviour.

I'd love to be able to do some sort of workshop for 'head tilt' bunnies. It's not rocket science when you think about it, physio, heat treatments etc to prevent it becoming a permanent fixture, and if you apply the same principles to bunnies as you do to humans, of course it works. I mean after my really bad accident at work and neck injury, if I hadn't had had those things, well, my head would be almost back to front lol. Simon was really impressed with the reversal of Roger's head tilt, as he had said he was probably the worse case he had ever seen and to be honest, his long term prognosis was very poor, and that was coming from a vet that only sees rabbits and guinea pigs. I was just so determined though that Roger wouldn't have to live out his life with his head almost upside down, because if it hadn't of at least improved considerably, it probably would have been kinder to pts.

 

[RogerRabbit999]

What has been wrong with Doughnut? I love her name and she is just so beautiful.

 

[cpayne]

I think you have added to my initial thread as it has been going on so long. I know I always forget what is happening with every bunny!

She's the one who I put videos up for and asked if this was normal behaviour. I took her to a vets who thought she had coccidios (not sure of the spelling). She had diarrhea, was making the most awful noises like gagging and rubbing her throat frantically and continally wet and weeing everywhere, This was 3 months ago. She was given antibiotics for 3 weeks and pancur, no change. Back again then went to the specialist, she said it was due to the antibiotic making her ph balance wrong, given ranitidine and cisapride. Still unwell, back to vets who spoke to specialist, nope still all OK to leave her. I worked out it was a couple of hours after her pellets and when she was full up, took her back to the specialist. They took her in but said they thought she was fine. Had her two days and two nights. Heard the awful noises, nope that's normal. Saw the rubbing of the throat, it apparently was the rubbing of her chin, they told me. I said it wasn't, it was all normal and she was marking her scent. I knew it wasn’t as she chins me a lot and I could tell she was in pain. They said she was wet because she sat in her own urine, it wasn't she was leaking urine all the time.

Anyway they did xrays and found nothing. Got her back, the same night she was still very unwell still diarrhea. I had to go to bed as was in tears so called the specialist again on the Monday and sent the videos. Nope all OK, I said I didn't believe her. Went straight to another vets to show the video to, he said it didn't look right but because he wasn't a specialist he didn't know what was wrong. He posted the videos on the US vet website but no one know what it was. Took her to Mark another specialist who said he thought it was her oesopegas. Took more xrays, bloods and a camera down. The bloods showed a severe infection and the camera showed a badly infected and inflamed area. She also had fungi of the gut because it had been left so long. She's on lots of meds and I'm slowing introducing a few pellets back as she can't stay on the alfalfa hay long term. She had a set back and was back in hospital for another 4 days but I'm sure this was because I was putting the probiotic in her water and she drunk it too quick, so got full up.

Anyway that's her story! I'm going to try and get my money back from the initial specialist and she would have died a slow and painful death. I can't look at the videos as find them very upsetting and disturbing but I just wanted to know what I was seeing wasn't right from the guys on here. No one thought it was normal.

 

[RogerRabbit999]

I remember now. Poor Doughnut, it is just terrible isn't it when you know something is wrong and the vets won't listen. Thankfully, I don't have that now that I have found Simon. My daughter has been having some problems and it now turns out that she has an Oesopegas Ledge. Food has been getting trapped and she coughs up food balls and gets lots of throat infections, but it has righted itself as she's got older. Katie and Doughnut should meet for a coffee one day lol to discuss. I would definately look to get your money back. I went absolutely mad at the vet who was going to put Roger to sleep. Horrible fat little man, had him by the throat, think I could have killed him for all the suffering he had caused Roger. I had to rush Dipsy to the emergency vets new years day, when he had such a mad binky, he split his head open when he hit the wall head on. I bet the vet I saw even though she was okish, was glad she didn't see me regularly, as I was stressed about not seeing Simon, and kept quizzing her on her abilities, and at one point she even said to me 'I am qualified, you know' and I replied 'so were all the other idiots I've seen with a rabbit'. She cleaned his head up and gave him pain relief etc, but I wouldn't let her do anything else, and he went straight into Simon when he opened the net morning for a GA and x-rays. Poor little man has got a shaved head now and 7 sutures, and he hasn't even learnt from it lol. Poor old Doughnut, I really hope she gets fully better soon, and if you want your previous vet 'roughing up' lol I'd be happy to help

 

[cpayne]

Haha thank you, the previous specialist was a woman. I'm not so annoyed with my two vets who thought something was wrong but didn't know what but the specialist is ridiculous. Also the nurses at the practice observed her and said she was fine. When I rushed Doughnut in when she had a relapse two specialist vets and the nurses saw her actions and heard the noises and apparently they had never seen anything like it. Mark unfortunately wasn't there but when I initially saw him he thought she may have a ledge. I think it's unusual to get cut internally. Trust me to pick the bunny who does that, but I couldn't resist her, she was half the size of her brothers and sisters and the breeder said she was by far the greedest. She is and I try to slow her down with the vetcare pellets as I don't think this helps her.

Poor little Dipsy. That sounds very painful. I have parquet flooring and Doughnut is always doing her binkies and goes crashing and she does try to time it so that she does it on the rug. I haven't seen any binkies for 3 months but the other day she short of did a half binky but jumping and shaking her bum to the side, then a run and straight away another half one. It looked so funny as she then slides to the side as she's going so fast.

I often wonder if Doughnut like company but I don't think I could afford two and not sure she would be keen. I've been told by the specialist and nurses she's dominant and knows her own mind, so her husband would have to be placid and do as he's told!

I'm so pleased you have a great vet, to me that's half the battle and one who listens to you. I just cried when he said she was very unwell, not because she was unwell but because he recognised she was! Never been so happy to hear those words.

PS. I would always get a rabbit from a rescue centre now but I didn't realise rescues had rabbits when I got her, the ones I went to only had cats and dogs.

 

[RogerRabbit999]

Doughnut sounds like she is well on the road to recovery, and to be honest I don't think it is that important for house bunnies to have companions, when they have humans to wait on them. After all she has been through, I would be very reluctant to get another for fear of something happening and her being hurt. My house buns have all been single, it is only now that Dipsy and Pippa are bonding that I have decided to let them be together. I cannot believe what they are like after hearing so many horror stories. It was definately one of those very rare cases of 'love at first sight'. Pippa is an 8 month old Dutchie. Went blind in one eye through neglect, and then nearly starved to death. Was to weak to eat when I first got her and honestly didn't think she would make it, but she did (obviously lol). She eats for herself now but is still so tiny she has to have the tiny nuggets for 1 week + bunnies, and because she feels the cold so, even though she is indoors, she has newborns t-shirts that she wears at night to help keep her warm. She went straight up to Dipsy's cage and started licking him and then he was her, and when they are let out, they love each other and sit/lay by the others cage. Poor old Dipsy, makes me think of the song from 'Grease', 'Hopelessly Devoted To You', as that is what he is with Pippa. Can't wait for them to be together all the time, but having to still rest Dipsy because of his head injury, and can't have him going too mad. Dipsy is a 'special needs' bun from Southampton Rabbit Rescue, with neurological problems (really lol) would never have guessed that!! My daughter thinks he actually has mental health issues, and she could be right. They wind each other up terribly. He swings off her scarves on the banister, and she tells him off, but then he rushes at her growling, and next minute I hear her bedroom door shut and she's calling for me to come and get the 'fudging rabbit'. She's only 14 and not allowed to swear.

 

[cpayne]

That's sweet they wanted to be together.

I'm not sure Doughnut would like another bunny as she is so spoilt. I also wouldn't want to go through the bonding process as she has been through so much and don't have space for two separate bunnies. It's only I feel guilty every so often when I go to work and she's left alone but better to be alone than be fighting with another bunny!

 

[cpayne]

Quick update - vet was cautiously pleased...sausage-shaped inpaction had become series of "balls", still big and painful but a sign that things are moving. So we're continuing as before - gut stimulant, pain relief and fibre paste, all now to be given by mouth for 48 hrs till next vet visit. Just off to pick some more bramble leaves while it's light, as that seems to be a fave. AND she's just nibbled some hay. Fingers crossed...

Thanks again for all the advice. So glad to hear you've finally seen some progress with Doughnut after so much worry. Hope she continues to improve quickly so that you can start to relax and enjoy her again.

Any other update?

Sorry I hijacked your thread!

 

[Marion]

I'm afraid things going from bad to worse.

Have now cleared the impaction with the gut stimulants etc. But even with ever increasing pain relief, she was still unhappy, lying stretched out, refusing to move more than 1 hop. Then she stopped eating. She has lost masses of weight (50g a day now) and is desperately weak.

Took her back to the vets on Wed and on Thurs - we've all agreed there must be something else going on. The original dental may well have been a red herring - ie she stopped eating her hay as she wasn't feeling well which caused her teeth to overgrow, rather than being the cause.

So she's back at the vets on rehydration fluids, pain relief and continued gut stimulant as she's not eating much.Vets have done blood tests with no clear outcome: ruled out liver or kidney failure, some mild inflammation indicated but not clear where, no fever, no heart or lung issues, no runny nose, no trauma or injury - just nothing except a very weak and poorly bunny. Vet has sent off blood sample to be tested for EC and has started her on Panacur on the basis that it can't do any harm but not likely to help. Her sister, with whom she shares everything (same food, same hay, same housing etc) is 100% fine (and getting fed up with vets visits).

I am at my wits' end trying to work out what's gone wrong here. I've trawled the internet, spoken to 4 vets but no-one can suggest anything. The vet in charge of her treatment just said today sometimes rabbits can get ill without anyone being able to work out what's wrong, and they just pass away with no diagnosis. I just can't give up on her like this. She's only 2.

Anyone got any ideas at all what could be wrong? We're at the stage of trying anything - vet is giving antibiotics and Panacur at my request just in case they help, but we're just throwing the kitchen sink at it. And she gets weaker every day. Any ideas, however unlikely, very very welcome. Thanks.

 

[fruitandnutcake]

So sorry that she doesn't seem to be getting better has the vet done x-rays since the blockage? Is it possible she has a tumor somewhere? Fortunately my vet could feel Pebble's huge abdominal tumor, which had been causing his diarrhea and listlessness. Luckily it was removed successfully, and apart form being a dental bun, he has been healthy since. It can be so difficult when buns are poorly ..I hope the vet can get to the bottom of it soon.

 

[Tracy]

I'm so sorry that your bunny is still poorly. I have no advice to add, but didn't want to read and run.

I hope your vet is able to find out what is wrong and I hope your bunny is better very soon.

Thinking of you. xx

 

[P&B]

Thinking of you and your bun and hoping that you get to the bottom of it soon xx

 

[Jack's-Jane]

Could the inflammation (as indicated on from the blood test) be due to arthritis, especially in the hips. I have seen several cases of arthritis present as if the problem were GI tract related-ie Gut Stasis/impactions/anorexia.

 

[Marion]

Thanks for all suggestions. No tumour palpable, and she is so thin I think it would be noticeable. But I'll ask vet to double-check. Would arthritis make her so sick? She is now not eating or drinking, so being given subcutaneous fluids and syringe-fed. But producing fairly normal poos.
She is staying in the hospital over the weekend and vet has given her till Monday to show some improvement. So I will be spending my weekend ringing round every bunny specialist I can find who might be able to help (thanks v much for the PM - will follow that up).

I'm just so frustrated at not being able to do anything for her - not knowing what's wrong (and whether it's fixable) is just the worst.

I'll post anything I find out from experts in case useful for others in this situation - though I wouldn't wish this on anyone..

 

[Schtoffen]

I'm just so frustrated at not being able to do anything for her - not knowing what's wrong (and whether it's fixable) is just the worst.

I know exactly how you're feeling right now. Can't offer much advise, but know you're not alone *hugs* xx

 

[Marion]

I'm afraid little Hazel was PTS this morning. She had become so weak over the weekend that she could no longer raise her head off the floor, let alone move her body. We never did get a definitive diagnosis, but the vet suspects a spinal or brain abscess which progressed very rapidly to compromise her nervous system and shut her body down. We tried all reasonable treatment, but nothing had any effect. She passed away quietly in my arms and is finally at peace. I am truly gutted as she was a gorgeous bun and way too young to go. She will be sadly missed and was deeply loved.

 

[cpayne]

I am so so sorry. That is so sad. I hope you take some comfort in that you did everything you could for her. Lots of hugs for you. RIP little one. xx

 

[suzibunbun]

Oh no - this is so sad - RIP little one