Opinions on stress bonding

[MrsCoultas]

I've been scouring the internet for the last few hours (and months actually) about bonding. I just wanted to know peoples opinions on stress bonding. I'm having trouble bonding Poppy and Ragnar, I tried a few weeks ago, they were fine for a few days and then started fighting. I started again today after Poppy was spayed a couple of weeks ago but the fighting still seems to be happening and neither will back down. I think part of it is that I'm just stupidly soft and I'm just so worried they're going to hurt each other. I would never forgive myself if either of them were to get hurt. I've never bonded rabbits before, Poppy is my first rabbit and we've had her for about three years, we then got Raggy in February this year. I've read that stress bonding can be really effective but I'm a bit worried to try it. Any thoughts or experiences to share? Please don't be angry with me, I feel so bad that I haven't been able to make it work yet!

 

[vee-jay]

I would wait and keep them seperate for a couple more weeks to let Poppy's hormones settle down as that may be what is causing the fighting.

I also presume that Ragnar is neutered yes?

 

[MrsCoultas]

Yes he is He was neutured before he came to us, we kept them apart for 6 weeks after, then started the bonding. When they started fighting I got Poppy spayed. I can't help feeling like I'm just being a massive baby about it all lol

 

[joey&boo]

I'm sorry you're having a hard time bonding your bunnies. I think vee-jays advice is spot on.

I'm not a fan of stress bonding & nor am I convinced it works. It seems mean to put already stressed bunnies through things that scare them in the hope they comfort each other. I can well believe it might have a temporary effect but doubt this would be sustained. My current bunnies took 7 months to bond. I couldn't even take advantage of putting them in a carrier together each time they had to travel for vet appointments as Boo seemed to take advantage of her being less fearful than Mouse. If they are showing any aggression it isn't safe to put them in a carrier together anyway. If they aren't showing aggression then I'd say let them see if they can work it out in their own time. I do feel things will be a lot easier when hormones have dampened down . I'm stupidly soft & worry endlessly about them hurting each other too - I can totally empathise with that. I found Fat Fluffs words of wisdom (from their website) really useful on the subject as it reminded me that I'm not a bunny & what seems nasty to me is just rabbit communication. Thankfully Boo only fur pulled & chased - she never latched on or drew blood

 

[tonibun]

I think your main problem is the fact that you have had Poppy for 3 years and so she is being territorial over the areas you have put them in. Have you got somewhere entirely new to her?

 

[MrsCoultas]

That is exactly what I thought, I hate the idea of stressing them out and thought that it could totally be circumstantial plus if I stressed them out and they bonded over that, could it potentially harm the bond I have with them?? I really didn't want to have to do stress bonding, from what I can tell it seems like a big thing in America. I'm more than happy for a slow and steady approach, I just think I needed to reassurance. I've said from the begining that if they didn't bond then it wouldn't matter to me, I would give them both a home they were happy in. Poppy has been a single bunny all her life and I think the same for Ragnar, so it's new and different for them both. I will wait another week and try again Thank you

 

[MrsCoultas]

I think your main problem is the fact that you have had Poppy for 3 years and so she is being territorial over the areas you have put them in. Have you got somewhere entirely new to her?

Yes it is a new area, we moved into a new house in November and she was down stairs in the living room with me. Then when we got Ragnar in February, I moved her upstairs to her own room and Ragnar has his own room too. I've been doing the bonding on the landing where neither of them have been before. The plan was the bond them upstairs and then bring them down stairs together and by that time hopefully Poppy's scents will have disappeared, I've cleaned too

 

[daphnephoebe]

We ended up bonding our two females via stress bonding. After almost three months of trying to bond it was our last resort.

We got them each into separate carriers and took them for a short drive so they could see,smell and nose touch but no fights could break out.
Once we got home they went into a large dog crate with hay and water and I spent three nights/days watching them in there. After that they moved into the shared accommodation after being neutralised.
I honestly don't think they would have bonded without the car trip. Took about a week before we were comfortable leaving them alone and they seem to have a strong bond now.

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

 

[MrsCoultas]

Thank you, that's great that it worked for your girls That is a bit different way to what I've read about, people put them in the same carrier, which is the bit that would really scare me. It does sound like a last resort kind of thing to me. Were they both spayed? And how long have they been bonded for now?

 

[MrsCoultas]

I've also been finding some conflicting info. Some sites say nothing that can be 'claimed' should be put in the area and some sites say having a hideaway is useful. I have a litter tray filled with hay, neither seemed to claim that at the time but I put a cardboard box in there just in case they wanted to hide. They were both chinning that, should that be taken away? I think it was on Fat Fluffs that it said to just have newspaper down, no litter tray, and a pile of hay. I've got a baby gate across the hallway and I was stood on the other side of the gate, I used a broom the separate them, which worked really well haha.

 

[daphnephoebe]

Thank you, that's great that it worked for your girls That is a bit different way to what I've read about, people put them in the same carrier, which is the bit that would really scare me. It does sound like a last resort kind of thing to me. Were they both spayed? And how long have they been bonded for now?

Both spayed - minimum 4 weeks before bonding started. Both neutered really young as aggression started early. (Different litters, one month age gap)

It scared me to think of putting them in the same carrier too which is why I avoided it.

Defiantly a last resort to bonding.

They've been bonded since November /December 2015 but they are so loved up its unbelievable.

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

 

[MrsCoultas]

Aww that's brilliant I'm so happy for you and your bunnies! And thank you for your input!

Neither Poppy or Ragnar have ever really been aggressive, Poppy would lunge a bit at us if she felt like we were cornering her, and Ragnar is probably the soppiest animal I've ever met haha. I do wonder if I've allowed them to both be too dominant with me, and so are both too used to having their own way? I don't know, I wish I was Dr Doolittle!

 

[daphnephoebe]

Aww that's brilliant I'm so happy for you and your bunnies! And thank you for your input!

Neither Poppy or Ragnar have ever really been aggressive, Poppy would lunge a bit at us if she felt like we were cornering her, and Ragnar is probably the soppiest animal I've ever met haha. I do wonder if I've allowed them to both be too dominant with me, and so are both too used to having their own way? I don't know, I wish I was Dr Doolittle!

I'm sure it's nothing you've done.
It took a lot for me to get used to knowing when to step in and stop them.

I was told not to allow chasing, but after a while we found that a little wasn't too bad. The fur pulling wasn't too bad either and we'd stop that within a few moments. The only time we really stepped it was if they locked and started rolling which only happened once.

It's your first time so take it as slow as you need to. You'll learn what you and your bunnies are comfortable with soon enough.

When our girls were separate we used to let them share their fresh greens through the bars so they were both eating together.

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

 

[MightyMax]

I've also been finding some conflicting info. Some sites say nothing that can be 'claimed' should be put in the area and some sites say having a hideaway is useful. I have a litter tray filled with hay, neither seemed to claim that at the time but I put a cardboard box in there just in case they wanted to hide. They were both chinning that, should that be taken away? I think it was on Fat Fluffs that it said to just have newspaper down, no litter tray, and a pile of hay. I've got a baby gate across the hallway and I was stood on the other side of the gate, I used a broom the separate them, which worked really well haha.

Awww I'm sorry you're having such issues.

I have to say, without seeing the actual 'fighting' - I don't know whether to think you are separating them too soon, or whether you should leave them to get on with it.

I 'supervised' a bonding at a distance many moons ago. The lady I rehomed a rabbit to was going to bond them herself, and she and I were on the phone the whole time, with her describing all that was happening and me advising. Her bonding worked perfectly, but if she had had her way, she would have split them up, and that doesn't work.

I know you asked about stress bonding, and that has it's place in some circumstances, but not something I have found necessary to try. And female hormones won't subside within a couple of weeks or so, they take 8 - 12 weeks in my experience

Good luck xx

 

[MrsCoultas]

I'm not sure if I'm separating them too quickly, but there is always fur left behind, sometimes it looks like it's been 'cut' off but I'm sure some of it has been pulled out, it looks like Ragnar's as Poppy has silver tips on the ends of her fur and some of Ragnar's fur is a bit brown. I always check them both over afterwards and they always seem fine, Poppy flopped once I got her back in her room, Ragnar just carried on as usual. I'll see if I can get some videos of them together, I'm not sure if I will give it another go tomorrow or just give it another week, I'll see how they are in the morning. Thank you so much for the advice, I don't know what I'd do without this place! x

 

[MrsCoultas]

So I've been having a think whilst playing with them today, I didn't get them together as Ragnar was full of go-go juice and Poppy was just enjoying cuddles with me so much that I didn't want to stress her out.

I was thinking that maybe I could move them into the same room but separate them by the play pen panels. Ragnar has a really big room at the moment and I just realised, whilst I was playing with him that there is a reason he has a big room. Before he came to us he was kept in a very tiny hutch, there is a video of him pacing backwards and forwards and it is absolutely heartbreaking. I took him in as I don't cage Poppy and it was exactly the right thing for him. Whilst bonding them I took the small space approach, about 1mx1m if that. I just realised, maybe this is why he is getting antsy! Maybe that's why he wont chill out! Now I'm thinking that if they can live side by side in one room but still have their own space it might be a bit easier. What do you think?

 

[tonibun]

I think if Poppy has never been in Ragnar's room then this is the perfect place to bond them, as Poppy shouldn't feel it is her territory so no need to be aggressive.

 

[MrsCoultas]

I've ordered the pet pen I think it'll be great for both of them, they both have the company without being too closed in and the added security of the barrier Will let you know how it goes

 

[Mackers]

I don't know about stress bonding but I DO usually do a 'forced' bonding by placing all those to be bonded into a very small enclosure, increasing the space minimally over about a week. I think people are too quick to dismiss stress/forced bondings as unacceptable. Yes, it's not ideal BUT if you work full time then you don't have the benefit of days and days of being at home in which to supervise. Plus I always think "1 week of stress = a lifetime of having a friend/friends". I would be lovely to be able to spend weeks doing a fluffy bond where the rabbits have a whole room and can avoid each other unless they choose to be together but I never have that time. I envy people who can do that but sadly, most people can't so it's either lonely rabbit or forced bond. I'm afraid I'd go with the forced bond every time.

 

[joey&boo]

I don't know about stress bonding but I DO usually do a 'forced' bonding by placing all those to be bonded into a very small enclosure, increasing the space minimally over about a week. I think people are too quick to dismiss stress/forced bondings as unacceptable. Yes, it's not ideal BUT if you work full time then you don't have the benefit of days and days of being at home in which to supervise. Plus I always think "1 week of stress = a lifetime of having a friend/friends". I would be lovely to be able to spend weeks doing a fluffy bond where the rabbits have a whole room and can avoid each other unless they choose to be together but I never have that time. I envy people who can do that but sadly, most people can't so it's either lonely rabbit or forced bond. I'm afraid I'd go with the forced bond every time.

thats a really good point. I tend not to think of time practicalities when considering others bonding experiences as much as I should, as worked from home during my trio bond. I was priviledged to get to do the fluffy bunny bond thing