Question about a beloved lop I lost 15 yrs ago (long story)

Its something that has bugged me ever since I lost this bunny and I have always wanted to know if he had been mis-diagnosed?

I got my very first dwarf lop when I was 12, he was 6 weeks old and I had him for 3 happy years. (I wont mention the name of the place I got him from on the forum as I know its naughty to mention names, but lets say she still runs this place and should have been shut down years ago).

Never the less, he was a happy little bunny, who lived outdoors and was extremely randy twenty four-seven!! He was totally hyper-active and followed me everywhere and if he saw me, he would leap to his feet with excitement and thump and make a humming noise until i opened the hutch and let him out!

When he was about 2 and a half, I went to feed him as usual, and he looked totally spaced out and his eyes were constantly rolling round and round as though he had suffered a stroke and he had also lost the use of his back legs. he didnt seem to know anything that was going on around him.

The vet (may I add they didnt seem to know half as much as they know these days) said he had suffered a stroke, and he tested his reflexes by lifting him up and dragging his back feet against a table - where a normal bunny would automatically pull their foot forward - Treacle didnt - his legs were totally paralysed.

The vet said he would be happy enough as he wasnt in pain, but if it became too much for him to cope with, I should consider putting him to sleep.

A few days passed and Treacles eyes stopped rolling and he recognised me again, and seemed perfectly normal except his legs were still paralysed and his head developed a tilt. I was over the moon!


I kept bringing him in for bath's and he would spend hours sitting on my knee drying out - he became a house-bunny. He was extremely smelly and couldnt clean himself, and only had the use of his front legs so would drag himself around. He seemed happy enough for a few months, but then he just seemed to lose his spirit - which I can totally understand considering he was once this proud young rabbit running around and following me everywhere - and then overnight, he could no longer walk or clean himself. It must have been an awful time for him.

He looked desperately unhappy and I decided that it was kinder to have him put to sleep - as he was constantly wet - no matter how many times I washed and dried him and kept him as clean as I could, and he started developing little sores from being damp and wet all the time and his fur started falling off in clumps. He also started having a runny stomach, and the poor little mite just smelt so bad all the time.

I just couldnt see my little angel struggling, and being so unhappy anymore. I still get very upset over losing him, and I have always had a little photo of him by my bed ever since he died when I was 15.

I really just want to know, if anyone else has ever experienced anything like that with one of their buns, and do you think it was a stroke or something else?

They did not do such things as rabbit vaccinations at the time, and they did not neuter or spay rabbits at the time. He was fed on rabbit pellets, greens and hay (I got all my straw and hay from a local farmer who kept horses).

The weird thing is, that my other male rabbit (a netherland dwarf) also developed the same thing a few months later (the rolling eyes) and he too had to be put to sleep.

I always worry that it was something I did wrong, but they were SOOOOOOOOOOO loved and cared for (even though there wasnt half as much out that there is now) - but at the time they had the best as to what was available.

Do you think this was a stroke or something else?

I remember reading i think in a rabbiting on magazine about a rabbit who had a stroke same as your poor mite did they can do very well but like your bunny he did lose his fight and couldn't feed himself in the end, just lost his spirit,

I have never had to deal with any of my buns having a stroke so i couldn't tell you for sure if it was but i am sure somebody can help you.

Vets have changed alot in the last 3 years so many would be able to help more now with strokes Etc, I am sure you did nothing wrong these things happen to many bunny owners its just a way of life sadly

Oh Kerri, I'm sorry..I'm in tears here after reading that. Poor little Treacle..Sorry I can't offer any advice as I've never experienced that (touch wood quickly). xxxxxx

Orr thank you both, he was a lovely little bunny, one of those that will always be that little bit special!! I miss him so much, I cant put it into words. I have got tons of photo's of him, I will try and get some up to show you this week - as you'll agree he was very handsome and had a real cheeky face!

Its strange that after 15 long years I still get upset about him, he was just unique!! If you knelt down and tapped your knees he would jump up onto them - he was just so full of love and life!!

Thanks haffyj, I know it does sound like he had a stroke, yet I always wonder if there was something else I could have done, especially cos my little netherland dwarf Frosty got the same thing? I hope they wernt stressed in some way?

They had huge hutches that I had specially made, and they were really well built tongue and groove and I covered them up on cold nights with blankets and bubble wrap so they didnt get cold, but if it was too bad they'd get moved into the garage (which was carpeted out!). I would have loved to have had a shed for them, but as I was still living with my parents - it was their word against mine!!

I dont suppose I'll ever really know, but I suppose ive got to think he was happy, and LOVED life and had a mummy that doted on him 100%. I totally miss him.

Yes it is difficult when you don't know exactly what happened. One of my first bunnies, Smokey, a Nethie, had to be PTS because she developed a blood clot in her brain (or something similar) and she became paralysed.

I felt awful in case it was something I had done but I eventually came to realise that these things do happen even though I loved her sooooo much and she was so spoilt! Unfortunately as we all learn, that's lone of the sad things in life. I remember having her overnight in a little box next to my bed and checking on her constantly. I was gutted when she had to go, me and my Dad both stood in the vets crying our eyes out, on a Sunday evening while she peacefully went. She was such a special bunny, as I said one of my first buns (she was actually my sisters bun but of course she got fed up!) and she loved cuddles, used to sit there and lick your neck. Bless her. Brings tears to my eyes just writing about her. She would have been 8 years old this year if she hadn't gone to Bunny Heaven.

I miss all my buns that have passed on so much, they all have a special place in my heart.

Nicola

I know what you mean, it doesnt get any easier does it? I have photos of them all in my living room in a big frame, and they are all special in their own little ways. I miss every single one of them so much, but im glad they all had happy lives right to the end, and I did put their interests first - I would hate to see an animal suffer.

The way he improved after a few days does make it sound like a stroke rather than anything else even though its rarer in younger buns. I don't think there was more you could have done especially with how far behind bunny knowledge was those days. It sounds like you did a brilliant job with him.

I think the "what ifs" always plague you no matter what happens or how much you try. You always wonder if there was something else you could of done.

Tam

Tamsin said:

The way he improved after a few days does make it sound like a stroke rather than anything else even though its rarer in younger buns. I don't think there was more you could have done especially with how far behind bunny knowledge was those days. It sounds like you did a brilliant job with him.

I think the "what ifs" always plague you no matter what happens or how much you try. You always wonder if there was something else you could of done.

Tam

Click to expand...

Thanks Tamsin, its nice to talk to people who know exactly what I am talking about, rather than people at work, who couldnt really care less about bunnies. I feel a bit better about things now, as it is something that has upset me for all these years. Thinking about it though, I have always thought the same thing whenever I lose a bunny, I think all of us will always think "what if?".

I had a similar experience as this Kerri I did'nt have the rolling eyes but did have the paralysis there is a link that pendragon put on all about the condition flopsy which rang alot of bells with me will see if I can find it :wink:

the link :wink:

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=573&highlight=internet+saves+lives

Thanks Denny, that was really interesting, I have saved that article incase I need to refer to it in the future.

I suppose he had similar symptoms to the article, but I think after all, it was perhaps a stroke, as he had this condition for 6 months, and would probably have gone on and on, but it wasnt fair on him. He was still eating and drinking the awful day I took him to the vets, but he looked so tired, thin and ill that I knew it would only be a matter of time, probably days, before he gave up, and I didnt want to see him suffer.

It may have been a vitamin deficiency as there was not much info in them days on how to correctly feed a bunny, and even the rabbit pellets had no nutritional info, they were just bagged up and you bought it without really knowing what was in it.

I wish half the info that is out now, was out then - but Ive always got to think I did what was best at the time, and he certainly knew he was loved more than anything. I will try and get some pics up this week of him - he was a total stunner. (a very randy one at that!) :lol:

Your right there Kerri, lack of info years ago must have caused quite alot of problems to be honest, alot of books I have read are'nt half as good as this forum for informative info :wink:

look forward to the randy stunner bunny pic's

Aw Kerri that must have been alot to deal with. To me it sounded like E Cunculi but Im not sure if that was around at that time, maybe it was but no one knew anything about it???
This link does mention about strokes and I know hind leg paralysis and head tilt often come along with EC, have a read http://www.rabbit.org/journal/3-2/e-cuniculi.html It does sound like it could have been EC especially as your other bunny went through the same just a few months later.
You certainly did do the best you could for him. The knowledge then wasn't anywhere near as good as it is now so there was no way you could have done anything else for him. You did your best and thats what matters, he knew that!
Angela

It doesn't get any easier, but we all do everything we can for our bunnies and give them the best We can only take comfort in that, knowing that none of our buns would ever suffer.

Nicola

Thumps said:

Aw Kerri that must have been alot to deal with. To me it sounded like E Cunculi but Im not sure if that was around at that time, maybe it was but no one knew anything about it???
This link does mention about strokes and I know hind leg paralysis and head tilt often come along with EC, have a read http://www.rabbit.org/journal/3-2/e-cuniculi.html It does sound like it could have been EC especially as your other bunny went through the same just a few months later.
You certainly did do the best you could for him. The knowledge then wasn't anywhere near as good as it is now so there was no way you could have done anything else for him. You did your best and thats what matters, he knew that!
Angela

Click to expand...

Hi thumps - thanks for that - it really sounds like it was either a stroke or that E cunculi, especially that pic of the bunny (below) - that is exactly what Treacle looked like once the eyes stopped rolling. I have got some pics of him before and after, I will really try to get them scanned on this week to see what you think. Also the bit about it doesnt cause them to die, it just causes incontinence, head tilt and rear leg paralysis - which is exactly what happened to my Treacle. Maybe I have got a diagnosis after 15 years!! At least, I know that after reading that, there was not much else I could have done, and the vet cant have heard of it then either, as he didnt even mention it!! Its upsetting to think I lost my Frosty to it too, but at least the 3 females I had too, were all ok.



Thanks alot for that, you've all been brilliant. I'll pester my husband this week 2 scan the photos for me!!

my georgie had a stroke, he had similar problems to yours, he was a 5 year old lop, he lost the use of one of his back legs, one of his ears remained totally limp, and he lost his sight in one eye. he seemed to adjust to life very well, he was an indoor bun so his undercarriage was kept pretty dry, he developed this really funny way of looking at yu, cos he was blind in one eye he would twist his head, so that his good eye could focus on you. but one day i had to go away for quite a long time, so i asked a friend (so called animal lover) to look after him. i felt a bit cheeky asking cos i didnt want them just to feed him i wanted them to spent a bit of time talking to him and cuddling him, so i offered to pay 25 quid a week, hoping that they would make a real effort with him. when i eventually returned, i cudnt wait to see georgie cos id really missed him, but when i walked into the house, he was lying dead on the floor with his ears missing where they had rotted away and his body has started to decompose. the friend in question insisted that they had seen him the day before and that he was okay, but thats was just rubbish. this was about 6 months after his stroke, so i dont know if he died of hunger or thirst, but i hope it was a heart attack. treacles symptoms and georgies were almost identical, and i took him to 3 vets who all said hed had a stroke due to bad diet,(he loved chocolate and biccys)

baza said:

my georgie had a stroke, he had similar problems to yours, he was a 5 year old lop, he lost the use of one of his back legs, one of his ears remained totally limp, and he lost his sight in one eye. he seemed to adjust to life very well, he was an indoor bun so his undercarriage was kept pretty dry, he developed this really funny way of looking at yu, cos he was blind in one eye he would twist his head, so that his good eye could focus on you. but one day i had to go away for quite a long time, so i asked a friend (so called animal lover) to look after him. i felt a bit cheeky asking cos i didnt want them just to feed him i wanted them to spent a bit of time talking to him and cuddling him, so i offered to pay 25 quid a week, hoping that they would make a real effort with him. when i eventually returned, i cudnt wait to see georgie cos id really missed him, but when i walked into the house, he was lying dead on the floor with his ears missing where they had rotted away and his body has started to decompose. the friend in question insisted that they had seen him the day before and that he was okay, but thats was just rubbish. this was about 6 months after his stroke, so i dont know if he died of hunger or thirst, but i hope it was a heart attack. treacles symptoms and georgies were almost identical, and i took him to 3 vets who all said hed had a stroke due to bad diet,(he loved chocolate and biccys)

Click to expand...

God, that sounds awful, I cant imagine how awful it must have been finding him like that when you got home. Treacle was fed very well, and had the best greens and hay that was available at the time, but the rabbit pellets were just bagged up in clear plastic bags and had no nutritional info on them like they do today, so not really sure if it was anything to do with a vitamin deficiency. He also got those vitamins that you put in water - but I heard they are useless as it dispurses too quickly. He too used to look at you with his head tilted and if my other bunnies were hopping around on the floor below his hutch, he would twist his head to see them - it was adorable to watch.

baza said:

my georgie had a stroke, he had similar problems to yours, he was a 5 year old lop, he lost the use of one of his back legs, one of his ears remained totally limp, and he lost his sight in one eye. he seemed to adjust to life very well, he was an indoor bun so his undercarriage was kept pretty dry, he developed this really funny way of looking at yu, cos he was blind in one eye he would twist his head, so that his good eye could focus on you. but one day i had to go away for quite a long time, so i asked a friend (so called animal lover) to look after him. i felt a bit cheeky asking cos i didnt want them just to feed him i wanted them to spent a bit of time talking to him and cuddling him, so i offered to pay 25 quid a week, hoping that they would make a real effort with him. when i eventually returned, i cudnt wait to see georgie cos id really missed him, but when i walked into the house, he was lying dead on the floor with his ears missing where they had rotted away and his body has started to decompose. the friend in question insisted that they had seen him the day before and that he was okay, but thats was just rubbish. this was about 6 months after his stroke, so i dont know if he died of hunger or thirst, but i hope it was a heart attack. treacles symptoms and georgies were almost identical, and i took him to 3 vets who all said hed had a stroke due to bad diet,(he loved chocolate and biccys)

Click to expand...

Oh no, that's awful, it just made me cry!

baza said:

my georgie had a stroke, he had similar problems to yours, he was a 5 year old lop, he lost the use of one of his back legs, one of his ears remained totally limp, and he lost his sight in one eye. he seemed to adjust to life very well, he was an indoor bun so his undercarriage was kept pretty dry, he developed this really funny way of looking at yu, cos he was blind in one eye he would twist his head, so that his good eye could focus on you. but one day i had to go away for quite a long time, so i asked a friend (so called animal lover) to look after him. i felt a bit cheeky asking cos i didnt want them just to feed him i wanted them to spent a bit of time talking to him and cuddling him, so i offered to pay 25 quid a week, hoping that they would make a real effort with him. when i eventually returned, i cudnt wait to see georgie cos id really missed him, but when i walked into the house, he was lying dead on the floor with his ears missing where they had rotted away and his body has started to decompose. the friend in question insisted that they had seen him the day before and that he was okay, but thats was just rubbish. this was about 6 months after his stroke, so i dont know if he died of hunger or thirst, but i hope it was a heart attack. treacles symptoms and georgies were almost identical, and i took him to 3 vets who all said hed had a stroke due to bad diet,(he loved chocolate and biccys)

Click to expand...

Oh no how awful, I can't even begin to imagine how awful it would be to find that.
Angela