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caring for poorly and stressy bunnies- still concerned, any thoughts?

J

Jenny Jump

Warren Scout
Poor Thomas seems to get more unwell and stressed the more he gets treated. The vet has perscribed Emeprid, Zantac and Metacam, plus critical care, which I have successfully given to him by oral syringe this morning, but I still can't tempt him to eat for himself. We have an excellent rabbit savvy vet at the surgery we use; he thinks stress is a big part of Thomas' health at the moment. (No complaint about the other vets we saw first.) He said to stay as hands off as possible. He says the eye infection won't kill him, but stress could. Right now I am feeling like a really bad bunny mummy, I think I have a part in why he is feeling so bad. As long as I have bunnies I will always be learning to keep them better. Do you experienced forum members have any advice for me? My pouch of Critical Care does not have English instructions on it, so I have no idea how much to give. He had 20ml this morning (he is the size of a Dutch rabbit). I am trying every treat I can think of, but he just turns his head away or scent marks it with his chin. I was hoping that the feeling of some food in his belly would encourage him. His meds are to be given twice a day, to reduce stress from handling.
 
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Poor lad, I know it can be a vicious circle with trying to medicate a stressy Bunny. On the one hand they need the medication, but on the other hand the stress being handled can cause them just adds to their problems. I empathise with you.

Do you know why Thomas is not eating ? I assume the Vet has ruled out Dental problems ?

With regards to the Critical Care, here are the feeding instructions (in English!!). Click on the yellow tab marked 'Feeding'

http://www.oxbowanimalhealth.com/vets/products/critical_care
 
Thanks Jane, that's very useful. I have just returned from a dandylion leaf search; Thomas actually ate one :) - small beginnings, I hope he will eat a few more with me gone. He actually had a dental yesterday after 10 days of treatment for an eye infection. During the treatment for the eye infection he has slowly gone downhill in himself, culminating in not eating / being a complete stress head and very hard to medicate - even the vet nurses found him hard. Vet said best to put him under and check teeth, upper set were fine, very slight sharp edges on the lower ones (tongue side), these have been smoothed down now. The vet said the teeth were only very marginally out and do not explain his loss of appetite. The vet is confident neither the eye or his teeth are the reason for his distress, but thinks trips to the vet for initial eye infection, plus the stress of being handled twice a day for oral syringe meds are a big factor. (The vet thinks the eye problem is the result of changes to his anatomy because of an old injury. His eye is slowly shrinking and has created a place where tear drops pool. Perhaps the partner he lost helped him to keep the eye clean.) It has been a lousy few months for Thomas. The vet is not treating the eye problem at the moment because not eating is clearly a much bigger issue. There is talk of me learning how to inject him if we resume treatment for the eye, less stressful for Thomas (but not for me).
 
Jenny Jump said:
Thanks Jane, that's very useful. I have just returned from a dandylion leaf search; Thomas actually ate one :) - small beginnings, I hope he will eat a few more with me gone. He actually had a dental yesterday after 10 days of treatment for an eye infection. During the treatment for the eye infection he has slowly gone downhill in himself, culminating in not eating / being a complete stress head and very hard to medicate - even the vet nurses found him hard. Vet said best to put him under and check teeth, upper set were fine, very slight sharp edges on the lower ones (tongue side), these have been smoothed down now. The vet said the teeth were only very marginally out and do not explain his loss of appetite. The vet is confident neither the eye or his teeth are the reason for his distress, but thinks trips to the vet for initial eye infection, plus the stress of being handled twice a day for oral syringe meds are a big factor. (The vet thinks the eye problem is the result of changes to his anatomy because of an old injury. His eye is slowly shrinking and has created a place where tear drops pool. Perhaps the partner he lost helped him to keep the eye clean.) It has been a lousy few months for Thomas. The vet is not treating the eye problem at the moment because not eating is clearly a much bigger issue. There is talk of me learning how to inject him if we resume treatment for the eye, less stressful for Thomas (but not for me).
Click to expand...

Gosh, you have a lot to deal with and so does Thomas. Giving injections is not nearly as stressful as trying to give oral meds too a Rabbit who gets into a right old state with being handled. It may be that the Vet could prescribe a long acting antibiotic meaning an injection every 3 days rather than every day. If you can get Thomas eating again you may be able to get oral analgesia into him disguised in his food.

Have you tried offering him some fresh herbs ? I find coriander to be one that many anorexic Rabbits will show interest in.
 
Thanks both. Off to the shops :)

Yes Jane, the antibiotic he wants to perscribe is 3 days to start, then every 3rd day. I just need to focus on getting Thomas back to eating properly.
 
Jenny Jump said:
Thanks both. Off to the shops :)

Yes Jane, the antibiotic he wants to perscribe is 3 days to start, then every 3rd day. I just need to focus on getting Thomas back to eating properly.
Click to expand...

Some Rabbits will go off their food with just a tiny 'sharp tooth' problem So even though the Vet felt the sharp points were minimal, Thomas may just be one of the ultra sensitive Rabbits and therefore more profoundly effected than one might expect. He does sound to be a sensitive soul in general, bless him.

Once he realises that his teeth no longer feel sharp and 'wrong' when he chews food he will hopefully start to eat more. That will help improve his GI tract motility and he will therefore feel more hungry.
 
Coriander and parsley were what got Jaffa eating again when he stopped. I couldn't get any critical care into him at all. I hope Thomas decides he'd like some nice fresh herbs too.
 
Jenny Jump said:
Thanks Jane, that's very useful. I have just returned from a dandylion leaf search; Thomas actually ate one :) - small beginnings, I hope he will eat a few more with me gone. He actually had a dental yesterday after 10 days of treatment for an eye infection. During the treatment for the eye infection he has slowly gone downhill in himself, culminating in not eating / being a complete stress head and very hard to medicate - even the vet nurses found him hard. Vet said best to put him under and check teeth, upper set were fine, very slight sharp edges on the lower ones (tongue side), these have been smoothed down now. The vet said the teeth were only very marginally out and do not explain his loss of appetite. The vet is confident neither the eye or his teeth are the reason for his distress, but thinks trips to the vet for initial eye infection, plus the stress of being handled twice a day for oral syringe meds are a big factor. (The vet thinks the eye problem is the result of changes to his anatomy because of an old injury. His eye is slowly shrinking and has created a place where tear drops pool. Perhaps the partner he lost helped him to keep the eye clean.) It has been a lousy few months for Thomas. The vet is not treating the eye problem at the moment because not eating is clearly a much bigger issue. There is talk of me learning how to inject him if we resume treatment for the eye, less stressful for Thomas (but not for me).
Click to expand...

I really think that if he needs antibiotics then the best way to go is to inject. Rabbits seem to bear this quite well (so long as YOU remain calm whilst you do them - easier said than done until you get the hang of it)

I'm sorry he's so stressed. Also, poor lad has an issue with his eye shrinking ... I do feel that we can pass stress onto our buns, and the calmer you can remain (even pretend calm is OK!) the very much better for him.

I have a bun that gets so stressed that whenever she visits the vet she needs oxygen on arrival as he lips and tongue turn blue and she just can't cope. I have learned to be very relaxed around her, and have adopted a very reassuring tone of voice that actually calms her down immediately.
When she hears something on the TV that's a bit loud, she's completely stressed out until I tell her that it's OK and she settles down again straight away. Perhaps you could try some therapy with Thomas?

As for eating - I find my buns love rose leaves from the garden, and parsley goes down well. If you break the stalk and crush the leaves a bit it will release the lovely herby smell and maybe get him feeling like eating. A tiny piece of hard cooked bread may also be a tempting thing - just a bit as carbs can be controversial!
 
Thomas likes the coriander :) Thank you so much. Yesterday was horrible for him, and I felt so helpless following vets instructions, and just as anxious giving him meds when the vet said we had waited long enough. I was afraid I was going to make him worse. I sure you will understand how much it means to see him enjoying that coriander, then munching a small bit of hay. I feel more hopeful now.
 
Jenny Jump said:
Thomas likes the coriander :) Thank you so much. Yesterday was horrible for him, and I felt so helpless following vets instructions, and just as anxious giving him meds when the vet said we had waited long enough. I was afraid I was going to make him worse. I sure you will understand how much it means to see him enjoying that coriander, then munching a small bit of hay. I feel more hopeful now.
Click to expand...

Fabulous !! I hope he now realises that it no longer feels all scratchy in his mouth and that eating lots of tasty bits an pieces is actually rather nice :D
 
Jenny Jump said:
Thomas likes the coriander :) Thank you so much. Yesterday was horrible for him, and I felt so helpless following vets instructions, and just as anxious giving him meds when the vet said we had waited long enough. I was afraid I was going to make him worse. I sure you will understand how much it means to see him enjoying that coriander, then munching a small bit of hay. I feel more hopeful now.
Click to expand...

Wow good news! So glad he likes the tasty (and healthy!) herbs :thumb:
 
Thomas is still not back to normal. I think he is eating hay, but when I offer a pellet, he scent marks it with his chin and pushes it away. Last night was particularly difficult trying to medicate him. As soon as he feels something on his feet he starts kicking. I was afraid he would hurt himself and multiple tries to hold him would get him even more stressed, so I put him back in his hutch. This morning, if he had looked bad I would be trying again now, but he has eaten coriander, nibbled hay and crunched on some pellets I hid in the hay!! He is not eating with his normal appetite, he was always a greedy rabbit, but he is eating. Of course I will keep a careful eye on him for any signs of pain, discomfort, but my thoughts are to leave him to it. What do you think?

About the whole problem, I am wondering if he is refusing pellets because in his mind they are wrapped up with the 'being given pellets, being partitioned into the top of his hutch (only place I can pick him from), being given meds and critical care'. Could he be refusing pellets to try to break that pattern of handling on my part? Would that stop him from eating them while I am not there?
 
Jenny Jump said:
Thomas is still not back to normal. I think he is eating hay, but when I offer a pellet, he scent marks it with his chin and pushes it away. Last night was particularly difficult trying to medicate him. As soon as he feels something on his feet he starts kicking. I was afraid he would hurt himself and multiple tries to hold him would get him even more stressed, so I put him back in his hutch. This morning, if he had looked bad I would be trying again now, but he has eaten coriander, nibbled hay and crunched on some pellets I hid in the hay!! He is not eating with his normal appetite, he was always a greedy rabbit, but he is eating. Of course I will keep a careful eye on him for any signs of pain, discomfort, but my thoughts are to leave him to it. What do you think?

About the whole problem, I am wondering if he is refusing pellets because in his mind they are wrapped up with the 'being given pellets, being partitioned into the top of his hutch (only place I can pick him from), being given meds and critical care'. Could he be refusing pellets to try to break that pattern of handling on my part? Would that stop him from eating them while I am not there?
Click to expand...

What medication are you giving him now ? What is his output like ? If his GI tract remains very 'sluggish' then that may account for him not eating pellets.

How's his eye ?
 
He has had no meds today. There are not many pellets, and they are quite small, however his enclosure is quite big, it could be I can't see them all among the straw. Earlier today he pushed his nose against the hutch door to indicate he wanted to go out, so I let him into the garden. He had 20 mins or so running about, eating a small amount of grass and returning to his hutch through his own choice. Right now he is sitting in the doorway to his run, a favourite place for him. His eye looks wet but not red or with pus. There will be someone who can help with medicating him later, I don't want to try by myself again because he gets so upset. We have an appointment for Tuesday with the rabbit specialist vet.
 
Jenny Jump said:
He has had no meds today. There are not many pellets, and they are quite small, however his enclosure is quite big, it could be I can't see them all among the straw. Earlier today he pushed his nose against the hutch door to indicate he wanted to go out, so I let him into the garden. He had 20 mins or so running about, eating a small amount of grass and returning to his hutch through his own choice. Right now he is sitting in the doorway to his run, a favourite place for him. His eye looks wet but not red or with pus. There will be someone who can help with medicating him later, I don't want to try by myself again because he gets so upset. We have an appointment for Tuesday with the rabbit specialist vet.
Click to expand...

It's always a balance between stressing them out and administering meds. I have eye drops for one of mine at the moment - the incredibly stressy one as well :shock:

Excellent you have an appointment in a couple of days time :thumb:
 
I'm going to wait till my OH gets back. This morning he looked quite bright and I thought I would give him a try to do without meds. Of course now is bunny sleeping time, so hard to judge if he is simply sleepy. We have put the eye drops on hold for now, on the advice of the vet.
 
Jenny Jump said:
I'm going to wait till my OH gets back. This morning he looked quite bright and I thought I would give him a try to do without meds. Of course now is bunny sleeping time, so hard to judge if he is simply sleepy. We have put the eye drops on hold for now, on the advice of the vet.
Click to expand...

I think you are wise to wait until your OH can help with the handling. Thomas sounds to be resting 'normally' at the moment. I hope all goes well for him on Tuesday. I expect this is all more than a little stressful for you too.
 
Jenny Jump said:
I'm going to wait till my OH gets back. This morning he looked quite bright and I thought I would give him a try to do without meds. Of course now is bunny sleeping time, so hard to judge if he is simply sleepy. We have put the eye drops on hold for now, on the advice of the vet.
Click to expand...

I note you've put the eye drops on hold for the time being, on vet's advice, but if it's any consolation at all, there are several of us on here find it difficult to do eye drops with only one pair of hands. We came to conclusion that not only were three hands necessary, but in truth four were required!

Hope you have a peaceful afternoon :)
 
Thank you. Thomas has had a lovely afternoon on our lawn, and is currently munching a sweetheart cabbage leaf. I do hope he has turned a corner. Waiting to see poops now he is back in his hutch. I know rabbits conceal illness, but he wouldn't be binkying and rushing about if he was very poorly? Would he??
 
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