What to do...

Hi everyone. I've not posted on here for a while but was hoping to get some good advice! So we have a house rabbit pebbles. He's a mini lop, he's three years old and he's a very lovely but cheeky little bunny! In June we decided to get pebbles a friend, and got another mini lop Kiki who is a similar age to pebbles, from a local breeder. I put on here the problems Kiki had when we got her ( she had e cuniculi as well as ear mites and was very underweight and balding on her legs because of her incontinence caused from the parasite) she is doing much better now, she's always going to be small and she's always going to be incontinent, but I change her puppy pads twice a day to try and keep her clean.

The problem I am having is that her and pebbles will never be able to live together. I get them both out together every day but pebbles used to hump her ( although he's been neutered the vet won't spay Kiki because if her size and the problems she's had). Pebbles only did it occasionally. When we first got Kiki she used to hump pebbles head but that stopped. However in the last week she has been doing it again and pulls clumps of his fur out in the process. This means I can't have them out together any more which probably leaves them frustrated. This is such a shame as we got Kiki so pebbles would have a friend and a companion, which has turned out not to be the case and it doesn't seem fair on either of them.

My boyfriend has suggested giving Kiki up for adoption to somebody without any other rabbits and getting pebbles a new healthy bunny who he can eventually live with.

When we got Kiki we could tell she had problems and the next day when we took her to the vet we could see the extent of what she had wrong with her, however we couldn't leave her obviously. She is such a sweet heart and is such a friendly lovely little bunny, who loves being stroked and given lots of attention. I really don't know what to do for the best. I don't want Kiki going to somebody like her last owners, and I really don't want her going from home to home. She is a lot of work cleaning her out twice a day and cleaning up after her when she runs around the house (carpet cleaner is always to hand) but I would feel awful giving her away, but I really want her and pebbles to get on. Even if they got on fine I don't think they could like together because it wouldn't be fair on pebbles living in her mess.

Sorry for the long post, does anybody have any suggestions on what to do?

It's spring at the moment so a lot of rabbits are humping more than usual, even the neutered ones

It sounds like your rabbits spend some time together at the moment, can you be more specific about how much you've done in terms of introductions?

My suspicion is you are letting them out together for brief periods? If so then humping is perfectly normal in those circumstances. What you need to do is pop them together full time, and you should find the humping then decreases over a few days as they adjust to living together. If you keep separating them, they'll hump at the start of each meeting so you don't get to the post-humping stage.

Although neutering is the ideal, it's possible for an unneutered female to live with a neutered male. It was the norm until spaying females became a safe option. If the only issue you have is the humping, I'd expect them to settle quite readily to living together.

Some others might be able to offer advise on housing them together, is the mess just urine or sticky poops too? For the former, vet bed may help, as that's machine washable and designed so urine soaks down through, leaving the surface dry.

Hi Tasmin,

There's the occasional sticky poo but it's mainly pellets and urine so the vet bed sounds like a great idea, I did not know about these and have been using puppy pads which are not very thick and need changing regularly. You are right they have been let out for short periods of time. I am going to get a vet bed, hopefully I will find one big enough or get a couple to fill pebbles dog crate and put them in together, fingers crossed! Thank you

Hi, I just read that EC can be transferred from rabbit to rabbit through urine, is this correct? I don't want to put pebbles in danger of also getting the parasite...

You might find the puppy pads will work well under the vet bed to soak the urine that goes through. You can get giant rolls of vetbed but there is a limit to what fits in a washing machine so two bit might work better :lol:

EC is passed in urine, but only if the rabbit has an active infection. If your rabbits been through treatment, a month course of pancur and then a good clean of the housing at the end she should no longer be infectious, it's just the damage is left behind. A large number of pet rabbits carry it anyway, so it's likey your other buns been exposed before, particularly if they've played together. It just doesn't cause a problem in some. If you are worried you could retreat both for a month (pancur), then do a clean (you need vet grade disinfectant or steam cleaner to kill spores) before doing the intros.

If he's never been treated it would be worth retreating them both anyway just to make sure he isn't a carrier and couldn't reinfect her.

Hi everyone! So since I posted this, Pebbles has had a course of Pancur, and Kiki has been spayed! My boyfriend just took Kiki for a check up a week after her op and they are happy with her and think she will be fine to go in with Pebbles now. I was intending to put them into Pebbles dog crate together (completely clean it out and lay it out slightly differently) I am thinking about getting a play pen and setting that up as their home but don't want to spend loads of money on the pen and vet bed etc if they end up not being able to live together, so wanted to see how they get in first. The only problem I have is how Pebbles is going to react to Kiki living in his space. They already play together, they groom each other and the only issue is the humping, but now Kiki has been spayed I am hoping this will subside.

Any suggestions? I was hoping to move her in tonight for a couple of hours with my supervision to see how they get on living together.

Bonding is best done in a completely neutral space to prevent territorial issues.

So glad you were able to get Kiki spayed after all. Best of luck with bonding. There is a lot of really good bonding advice on here if you search previous threads and look at the stickies. :wave:

As they are pretty much bonded already (they come out together every night and have been since last summer and will follow eachother around and groom eachother) it is just a case of moving them in together. Would this still be the case?

Ok I had some amazon vouchers I forgot I have so I have ordered the pen and a plastic table cloth to protect the carpet from kikis accidents! I will reintroduce them tonight as they haven't been out together for two weeks because of kikis op, and then when the new pen comes we will se how they get on! I would like to get them a couple of little hide aways so they can escape each other and have their own space in the pen, any suggestions?

Update: I got them both out together on my lunch break. Pebbles was very gentle and sweet around Kiki licking her as usual, Kiki was ok for a while and then started humping him again and chasing him when he ran away. I just read it can take up to six weeks for the hormones to be out of her system so I will keep letting them out together and see when it dies down... Is this the best way to do it?

Humping is normal, once they are together full time it generally tails off. How long ago was the neuter - it could be some left over hormones still.

It sounds like they are pretty well acquainted so I'd keep up the playtimes and then once the pen arrives pop them in that to live together full time. Generally boys are better about letting a girl in their home that the other way around.

Keep in mind you need a full 30 day course of pancur to treat against EC a seven day course is just for worms. Also give everywhere a good clean on the last day - be nice and easy with the plastic

Thank you Tasmin. Pebbles has never shown any signs if EC and I was just giving it to him to be safe before introducing them, is this till the case. This is slightly alarming though, as when we got Kiki and took her to the vets the next day they said it looked like she had had EC due to her symptoms (incontinent, sore eye, not much strength in her back end, mites.. The list went on ) however they only gave me the one week (or was it nine days?) course of Pancur. Does this mean she was not treated properly. I don't have a great understanding of the parasite, if I was to give Kiki Pancur for 30 days could her symptoms improve? Also she is only just over 1kg so I don't want to give her too much

The life cycle of EC means that 7 days isn't long enough to kill it, so it's possible she could still have the active parasite. It's also possible for a rabbit to carry it without showing symptoms - I forget the % but quite a high number of pets have been exposed to it. EC can leave permanent damage so treating doesn't necessarily get rid of long standing symptoms but it may have some effect. I'd recommend you do a full 30 day course on the pair of them at the same time (so they can't reinfect each other), and then at the end of 30 days do a deep clean with a steam cleaner or vet grade disinfectant. The spores are shed in urine and can remain dormant to reinfect later so that kills off any in the environment. As they've been interacting anyway, there is no need to keep them separate whilst you treat them

There is some info here: http://www.rabbitwelfare.co.uk/resources/content/info-sheets/ecuniculi.htm

You can adjust the dose by body weight, pancur is sold in different strengths (it's used for all sorts of animals) so you'll need to work it out depending which you have/get. If you search the forum for pancur dose or start a thread asking someone will know

Thank you Tasmin their play date seems to be going well so far tonight! I thought you might like to see them both

Aww, they do look snuggly I don't think you'll have too much trouble getting them living together, it looks like they are quite taken with each other

So their pen arrived yesterday. Last night was quite difficult, lots of humping and proving their dominance, but I resisted separating them and it has all died down now and they have been sat like this for ages

Aww, bless looks like they are officially bonded then

Even long-term bonded bunnies can get a bit humpy when they move space, you did the right thing letting them sort it out