Bonnie's molar spurs have returned less than three weeks

after her last op

She is going to the vet tomorrow morning but I think he will advise pts as this is her third spur regrowth in seven and half weeks However between ops she is really strong , bouncy and fit so she does have quality of life and I just don't think pts is the answer at this stage. He has mentioned referring her for a full tooth extraction but I'm not sure I want to put her through that.

I have also noticed she is now shunning all types of hay and forage which I reckon is the reason for the rapid regrowth. Also she only began dribbling and not eating today, up until today she was fine. She normally eats lots and lots of grass and it snowed recently, now the ground is frozen over and the grass is hard to get at which I think is also why she has suddenly gone downhill.

So I think the problem is a combination of her misaligned teeth, reliance on grass and reluctance to eat hay.
I am considering buying turf grass to put in her run to see if that helps her wear the teeth over the winter though I reckon she will demolish it pretty fast.

Beyond that I am not sure what else to do. Are there any grass alternatives I can give her? For those of you with rabbits who don't like hay how do you keep their teeth worn?

Any advice and suggestions would be wonderful as I am running out of ideas and am terrified I am going to lose her.

ETA she will eat pellets but shuns her veg and herbs and she has not lost any weight which is good but I'm am so scared now as the spurs have returned so soon. We have also reduced her pellet intake to force her to eat hay but she refuses to do so. As far as i know I have tried most of the things that are usually suggested. Her last dental was Nov. 29th :shock:

Please help me RU, I really can't lose her.

I know the feeling. My Homer had his done a couple of weeks ago (under GA) and was quiet and reluctant to eat veg for 10 days after and still not overly keen. I have a suspicion I may need to take him sooner rather than later so keeping a close eye on him and his weght, normally he is 5-6 week and the time before last it was 10 weeks.

You could try the turf, some "grow your own" type grasses which can be grown on the window sill. I feed Oxbow Bunny Basics T for the fibre content and they are quite hard so don't know if that helps. We also cut spring cabbage into long strips, again don't know if this helps any more than just giving a leaf.

Don't give up on Bonnie yet.

I know it is controversial on her but does anyone do conscious dentals by you (my old vet used to do them but has gone back to Europe to live now).

What about ReadiGrass or the hay experts taster pack? Or one of the Oxbow hays? It might help tempt her if there is something super delicious.

It's really good you can see that putting her to sleep is not in her best interests right now and you're thinking about what is best for her. It's really important to advocate that and communicate that to the vet so that Bonnie totally gets her needs met. She is very lucky to be with you

Thanks for your reply. Poor Homer, I hope he doesn't need a dental any time soon. I'm not sure about concious dental. I have heard of them but I know my vet would not do it and Bonnie would not stand for it anyway, she gets very stressed from being handled unless by me.
I will try the cabbage trick and the grass. Growing it myself is a good idea

When the spurs regrow she is quiet and withdrawn but as soon as she has them filed she is lively and bouncy and for a rabbit of seven she does not act her age. This makes me feel she does have a lot of quality of life and is not ready to be pts. I'm worried the vet will want to push for it but as he said most vets won't see the point in saving a rabbit of her age But I disagree so there is no way I am giving up on her.

bunny babe said:

I know the feeling. My Homer had his done a couple of weeks ago (under GA) and was quiet and reluctant to eat veg for 10 days after and still not overly keen. I have a suspicion I may need to take him sooner rather than later so keeping a close eye on him and his weght, normally he is 5-6 week and the time before last it was 10 weeks.

You could try the turf, some "grow your own" type grasses which can be grown on the window sill. I feed Oxbow Bunny Basics T for the fibre content and they are quite hard so don't know if that helps. We also cut spring cabbage into long strips, again don't know if this helps any more than just giving a leaf.

Don't give up on Bonnie yet.

I know it is controversial on her but does anyone do conscious dentals by you (my old vet used to do them but has gone back to Europe to live now).

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It could just be that Bonnie may need them done more often during the winter as she can't get decent grass. Homer is 8.5 by the way and he is a little fighter too.

Would orchard grass be suitable for her or is this something you've already tried?

Sending vibes. xx

Pebbles doesn't eat hay, but he does eat hay cookies and grass, which I also grow from seed in margerine tubs and seed trays. I also changed him to science selective high fibre pellets. he goes about 8 months between dentals now. I also tried reducing down pellets to see if he would eat hay, but it didn't work and he lost weight and teeth got worse, but increasing his pellets up started to wear his molars down again within 3 weeks. Also apple branches may help.

Has she ever had x rays? I wonder whether she might have elongated roots that are causing pain when she eats hay?
Grim only eats pellets now but since he's had unlimited soggy pellets (soaked in water to make them soft) his dentals have slowed down. Someone else also mentioned this happening with their dental bun, I can't remember who it was now.

Sky-O said:

What about ReadiGrass or the hay experts taster pack? Or one of the Oxbow hays? It might help tempt her if there is something super delicious.

It's really good you can see that putting her to sleep is not in her best interests right now and you're thinking about what is best for her. It's really important to advocate that and communicate that to the vet so that Bonnie totally gets her needs met. She is very lucky to be with you

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I will try readigrass, I had forgotten about that I did try a hay experts pack as well as Timothy,orchard, alfalfa and oat hay to no avail. She used to be such a good hay eater too I also tried her with forage packs but again she showed no interest.

bunny babe said:

It could just be that Bonnie may need them done more often during the winter as she can't get decent grass. Homer is 8.5 by the way and he is a little fighter too.

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Wow, that is impressive, well done Homer

fruitandnutcake said:

Pebbles doesn't eat hay, but he does eat hay cookies and grass, which I also grow from seed in margerine tubs and seed trays. I also changed him to science selective high fibre pellets. he goes about 8 months between dentals now. I also tried reducing down pellets to see if he would eat hay, but it didn't work and he lost weight and teeth got worse, but increasing his pellets up started to wear his molars down again within 3 weeks. Also apple branches may help.

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This is interesting. I had always assumed a pellet heavy diet would not provide enough wear for the teeth. She is on excel just now but I can certainly switch brands. My FIL has an apple tree so will ask him for some offcuts.

Jenova said:

Has she ever had x rays? I wonder whether she might have elongated roots that are causing pain when she eats hay?
Grim only eats pellets now but since he's had unlimited soggy pellets (soaked in water to make them soft) his dentals have slowed down. Someone else also mentioned this happening with their dental bun, I can't remember who it was now.

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Bonnie has never been X-rayed yet but its something I want to ask the vet about tomorrow. I did think the same about the hay but then I wonder why she can eat grass without pain (I assume) or is it because hay is more tough and fibrous and causes her to grind her teeth harder? Sometimes she makes lateral jaw movements beyond normal grinding but not like "in pain" grinding. It almost looks like she is feeling he molars with her tongue.



Thank you everyone for all the advice I will try everything and anything now so this means a lot and it may save Bonnie.

Oh no, I am so sorry to hear about Bonnie. I really hope there is a solution.

Mega vibes for your beautiful girl. Seems like alot of good advice. Thinking of you both. xxx

Barn Yard Bunnies said:

Oh no, I am so sorry to hear about Bonnie. I really hope there is a solution.

Mega vibes for your beautiful girl. Seems like alot of good advice. Thinking of you both. xxx

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Thank you
I keep reeling from having hope in possible solutions to the fear of having her pts, not sure how I have kept it together so far but keeping busy and keeping on searching helps.

Fifibutton said:

Thank you
I keep reeling from having hope in possible solutions to the fear of having her pts, not sure how I have kept it together so far but keeping busy and keeping on searching helps.

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What a terribly hard time for you. Searching for all the ideas you possibly can in the way you are doing means that if you have to pts eventually, you will have peace that you tried everything possible and that will mean a lot. The three times I have had to make that decision, it has always been clear cut. Every treatment option has been exhausted, however small, but there is still part of me that wonders 'what if' sometimes. I hope the vet can help or something like readigrass will take her fancy. My guys cannot get enough of the stuff and they love their hay as well!

Do you want me to post you some and save you buying any in case she doesn't like it?

I haven't had time to read all this properly as I'm at work at the moment.

Just wanted to say that my Herbie has severe dental problems, not a good molar in his head and no incisors either. He has had problems since he was a year old, he is seven now, so he has been having very regular dentals for 6 years. At best he went 6 weeks between dentals, at worst 2 weeks. He usually averages around 3 weeks. He has to have his dentals under GA due to the extent of his problems. Herbie bounces back quickly from the GA and enjoys his life to the full, I just have to make sure that I watch him like a hawk and get his teeth done on time before the spurs cut into his tongue/cheek.

Herbie is proof that bunnies with severe dental problems can live long and happy lives. Just wanted to give you hope and say that pts doesn't necessarily have to be an option. Herbie was referred to FHB and her advice was to keep going with the regular dentals as and when he needed them, even if this meant every 2 weeks.

Please PM me if you want any more info on Herbie.

Tracy xx

Grass is pretty good at wearing the molar teeth as much as hay, obviously not to the same extent but as it is the same fibre with the same abrasive silicates then this really is fine. I suspect the spur regrowth is unrelated to this mostly and more to do with her jaw shape and age related changes (how old is she?). I agree that Xrays may give more information if she is under anyway for burring then they would be worth doing. Generally molar spurs that are bad go hand in hand with overgrown tooth roots. It may also be worth your vet considering optimum burring i.e. down to the gum line to slow the rate of regrowth. Pain relief will be needed after this sort of procedure for a few days. If she has overgrown roots this can also be painful and cause her not to want to grind her teeth in the way she needs to to keep them worn so again pain relief daily may be what she needs, the Xray will help with making this decision. I certainly would not consider PTS until all avenues had been explored and tried especially as she is well in herself between dentals.

prettylupin said:

Grass is pretty good at wearing the molar teeth as much as hay, obviously not to the same extent but as it is the same fibre with the same abrasive silicates then this really is fine. I suspect the spur regrowth is unrelated to this mostly and more to do with her jaw shape and age related changes (how old is she?). I agree that Xrays may give more information if she is under anyway for burring then they would be worth doing. Generally molar spurs that are bad go hand in hand with overgrown tooth roots. It may also be worth your vet considering optimum burring i.e. down to the gum line to slow the rate of regrowth. Pain relief will be needed after this sort of procedure for a few days. If she has overgrown roots this can also be painful and cause her not to want to grind her teeth in the way she needs to to keep them worn so again pain relief daily may be what she needs, the Xray will help with making this decision. I certainly would not consider PTS until all avenues had been explored and tried especially as she is well in herself between dentals.

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During her last dental the vet burred right down so the teeth were level with the surface of the gum and now a mere three weeks later the spurs are back. Bonnie is seven and until this year never had a problem with her teeth. I definitely want to have her x-rayed. Presuming we find out her roots are really long would full extraction be the only treatment/cure for this?

Tracy said:

I haven't had time to read all this properly as I'm at work at the moment.

Just wanted to say that my Herbie has severe dental problems, not a good molar in his head and no incisors either. He has had problems since he was a year old, he is seven now, so he has been having very regular dentals for 6 years. At best he went 6 weeks between dentals, at worst 2 weeks. He usually averages around 3 weeks. He has to have his dentals under GA due to the extent of his problems. Herbie bounces back quickly from the GA and enjoys his life to the full, I just have to make sure that I watch him like a hawk and get his teeth done on time before the spurs cut into his tongue/cheek.

Herbie is proof that bunnies with severe dental problems can live long and happy lives. Just wanted to give you hope and say that pts doesn't necessarily have to be an option. Herbie was referred to FHB and her advice was to keep going with the regular dentals as and when he needed them, even if this meant every 2 weeks.

Please PM me if you want any more info on Herbie.

Tracy xx

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That is really heartening to know, thank you. I may pm you in the coming days once we find out a little bit more. Do you do anything special diet wise for Herbie?

aliduncan1 said:

What a terribly hard time for you. Searching for all the ideas you possibly can in the way you are doing means that if you have to pts eventually, you will have peace that you tried everything possible and that will mean a lot. The three times I have had to make that decision, it has always been clear cut. Every treatment option has been exhausted, however small, but there is still part of me that wonders 'what if' sometimes. I hope the vet can help or something like readigrass will take her fancy. My guys cannot get enough of the stuff and they love their hay as well!

Do you want me to post you some and save you buying any in case she doesn't like it?

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That is really kind thank you. I ordered some last night from an online shop with next day delivery. I don't mind the money and if Bonnie won't eat it I know my other little fatties will :lol:

I have never had to pts yet but used to be a VN so often helped other pets go to the bridge but it feels so different when its your own pet. I'm dreading if it comes to that how I'll cope which is really selfish I know but I don't want to break down at the vet's, I don't want Bonnie to be alone but at the same time I don't want to see her die. Its really silly as I have been there before with so many animals but because she is my baby I'm really scared. Above all I don't want to let her down.

For now she is at the practice getting fluids and pain relief. The vet is not in until tomorrow but the nurses know her well and are taking good care of her. I have told them I want to go down the x-ray route but I will be phoning the vet to discuss it with him.

So sorry to hear this Fiona. You have to stay strong for Bonnie. I honestly don't think I personally would consider PTS at this moment in time, but only you can make that final decision. You love Bonnie so much and no matter what I am confident you will make the right choice for both of you. You wonderful lady! xxxx

I hope the x rays find the problem and it can be sorted for Bonnie. Such a worry.

I haven't been in the situation for any of my bunnies to be pts but did with my cat. It was heartbreaking, but she was in the final stages of kidney failure, there was nothing that could be done.

Millions of vibes that there is a positive outcome for Bonnie. xxx

Out of our 11 dental bunnies, the ones that refuse veggies, hay and grass are fed more pellets. Our times between appointments are around 4weeks + upto 6 weeks with nothing else eaten. The wear on the teeth is uneven, but the time between dentals is longer.