Good or bad first date? (long post!)

Hello,:wave:

I was hoping someone might be able to tell if my first bonding date went well or not... I have no idea?!

I have a 1.5yr old rescue dwarf lop called Dillon. Hes been spayed in the spring and has never been the most friendly of rabbits, hates being touched/stroked but I'd never give him up.

I have just bought a 12wk old BEW doe called Daisy. She is stunning!! I thought she was tiny but was stunned at the comparison when put together. She is happily stroked and very inquisitive, will even be held and not be too scared.

I tried out the first date last night in the run. I first put her smelly travel case hay in with him in the run, and her seperated from him in his hutch space. I left them for a few hours to get smelly/used to another rabbit nearby.

I then put them in together supervised in another neutral run. He rushed at her, growled, bit her.... and ignored her... then back to nasty again? She generally ingored/ran away but also would rush at him occasionally when peace seemed to have broken out.

Everytime they got scrappy I seperated them/sprayed with water, especially Dillon who seemed the most antagonistic and also is the larger of the two, but also pushed her so I didnt set one up as dominant rabbit.

They would then be peaceful for a while, Dillon eating and ignoring her... her hiding in the corner with her heart pounding! Then either she'd rush at him, or he'd hop over to sniff her and she'd freak out and run a mile - think she thought he was attacking her.

They spent the night seperate but next to each other, she was in the hutch with his hay, and he was in the run and shelter with her hay... and the hutch/run were side by side so they could literally lay next to one another if they chose to.

This morning they were next to each other in hutch/run and seemed happily sniffing at each other. When I opened the top hutch door to give Daisy her some more hay (she was on groundfloor level) - Dillon leapt out his run and into the upper level of hutch! I panicked as I wasn't sure of his intentions and was off to work so couldnt supervise so put him back in the run. They went back to sniffing each other through the wire again. No swiping/biting, nothing.


So is that good or bad?! I will have another supervised date tonight but I do worry about Dillons dominanting behaviour/leaping out his run to get to her.

He's a small dwarf but she is absolutely tiny, like a small mini lop - so I do really worry for her safety.

Sorry for the massive thread, any help would be greatly appreciated!

xxx

is she spayed hun u didnt say yay or nay in ur thread lol

no shes not, not yet. Only a baby still so will let her grow up a bit before taking her to have the snip. I'd be quite concerned to put her under as shes so tiny in size.

Still need advice!!

Just an update as I am on date 3 now.

Date 2: Nasty fighting.. didn't stay together very long as Daisy was squeeling with fear and trying to escape Horrible to watch, horrible.

Date 3 today:
Introduced in neutral space on patio in the run. Initally biting by Dillon and spraying (he's never done this ever!) and rushing at her. She just ran away and was terrified. I then moved the run to the lawn as i wondered if the distraction of grass might calm Dillon down. They chilled out considerably. He rushed a few times and sprayed her twice, ergh. He nipped at her a few times too but was also going up and sniffing her and not attacking... then back to the happy distraction of eating grass. She stayed in her corner as tiny as she could get, and when he came near she either completely flattened herself down or ran away. She braved sniffing him twice but he got up on straight legs and stuck his tail out and she soon ran back to her corner. It seemed an improvement but are these two just really unsuited??

It makes me so sad as I did this for company for Dillon and now hes turned into a dominating nasty peice of work... and shes just terrified and craving cuddles.

Help?! Any advice would be massively appreciated!

Dont rush them. You are just on 3 days. Aim for 2-3 weeks.

It sounds like Dillon is a bit nervy. Some rabbits just are so it might be best to try a different approach. Can you set something up so that they are living next to each other in separate enclosure but can see and smell each other through some mesh? If you have, or can make, two runs you can do the same when they're in the run, next to each other but so they can't bite or touch. This might get him used to there being another rabbit around without stressing him out too much.

Then after a few weeks or months of this (you should know when he's less stressed) you can try putting them together. What I would do is get a completely neutral place in a completely neutral room neither of them have been in before. Something like a small dog crate or a puppy pen would be ideal, but you could make an enclosure out of anything, as long as it doesn't smell like either rabbit. If you need to use something that isn't neutral, clean it with white vinegar to neutralise it. The enclosure should be quite small, about two or three foot. Then put some hay in the middle and two water bottles/bowls. Then put both rabbits in pretty much at the same time.

Things they are going to do:
They will chase each other, pull a bit of fur, they will probably hump each other.

A bit of biting is okay as long as it's just biting fur.

You should only separate them if they're properly biting or sort of lock onto each other. It's really hard to explain because every bonding experience is different. You know your rabbits well and you need to watch how they're acting and take them out if you think someone is going to get hurt, but they will chase a little.

Then you need to leave them in the small enclosure with just hay and water for a couple of days. Ideally you need to watch them all the time in case they start fighting, so if you can have them in a room with a TV that works well.

Obviously you'll need to feed them but at first it might be best to scatter the food so they're less likely to fight over it. Then you can introduce litter trays and food bowls, I would put two of each in, and make sure they don't fight. Then after a couple of days when you think they're relaxed enough in each other's company you can increase the space a little. When they're comfortable in that space, increase it again.

When moving them back to the enclosure you want them to live in:
If it's been lived in by one of them, neutralise it by cleaning it with white vinegar. If they start to fight and chase again, decrease the space they have and then when they relax increase it again.

There are no rules to bonding and every rabbit is different so do what you think is best.

I think if you can have them living next to each other for a while things will be a lot easier. The actual bond in a small space might take a day, it might take a week.

Good luck. :wave:

I just wonder whether you'd be better not trying to bond until she has been spayed.

Babsie said:

I just wonder whether you'd be better not trying to bond until she has been spayed.

Click to expand...

That's a good point as well. I forgot to mention that.
From personal experience unneutered babies bond well but you have to be careful because as they start to mature they could get hormonal very quickly and break the bond. Maybe if you have them living next to each other until she's spayed and by then Dillon should be well and truly used to her being around.

Thanks everyone, really helpful responses

Unfortunately, I can't really keep them seperate until shes neutered due to lack of space, also the restrictions it would place on them in terms of access to the run would be unfair. They deserve a good run around all day and I'd hate to restrict that for 6 months for both of them.

I've bought them into cages indoors, one next to each other and they are very calm next to each other so far. Dillons definately 'boss' and she does still flee if he makes a sudden movement but shes braving up and sniffing through the bars/leaning on them.

I'm so so pleased its not as clear cut as 'they wont ever get on'. I really don't want to give up on either of them! I was worried that it might be that some rabbits just hate other rabbits!

After a double-rabbit nail cutting session where my partner and I were left scratched and bleeding - it would seem they both took great joy out of getting us back for putting them together - since then they have calmed even more!! Fingers crossed a few more dates and they will be ok sharing the run together, even if they live seperately.



Is it 6 months before I can neuter Daisy? Apprently when she was sexed by the vet he commented that she was tiny for a dwarf and even for a baby. Will this make it more risky when shes put under for the op? I'm alot more concerned for her op than a male spay as its alot more intrusive it seems.

Hi

Just to update you all - we have success! Dillon and Daisy are now happily living together (admittedly in the run!) but its progress!

Dillon had one final punch up with her after they've been cage to cage for few days adn were getting on fine - and we put them in the run and Dillon was in a foul mood. Not one bite or scratch out of him! They now cuddle and protect each other - its great to see.

I've just re-wood treated the hutch and will wash it with vinegar and then move them into 'home'. Fingers crossed the love will continue in the hutch!