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  • Please Note - Medical Advice

    Please keep in mind that posts on this forum are from members of the public sharing personal opinions. It is not a replacement for qualified medical advice from a veterinarian. Many illnesses share similar symptoms but require different treatments. A medical exam is necessary for an accurate diagnosis, without which appropriate treatment cannot be given.

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Need some advice about Xena's symptoms. U/D diagnosed with e.c

Vegan_Bunny said:
Thank you. Saw the vet today and she's put on a tiny bit of weight. This is excellent news because she has been losing weight and even though it's only a tiny bit she's put on, I'm hoping this is another sign that she's turned a corner. Her reflexes still aren't good (no reaction when her front paws are touched to the edge of the table) however Tom seemed quite happy with her progress. He looked at her eyes as well and they seem much better (they both had ulcers). We are continuing all the meds for a while yet. He wants her to have the panacur for longer than a month just to make sure and he's also suggested to worm her 3-4 times a year. He has said there's no evidence that panacur does anything (apparently the research was done with cells under the microscope and not actual rabbits so it's rather sketchy) but he said it won't hurt to do this. Better safe than sorry imo!

Do you think they'd all need worming routinely in this case? I don't mind since Shadowfax and Fiver seem to rather like the panacur. They take it completely voluntarily. :shock: :lol:
Click to expand...

Glad to hear that Zena is doing a bit better now. I hope the upward trend continues.

I wont offer advice re the Panacur, there are so many conflicting opinions about using it, about for how long, how often, if it works at all, if longterm and/or repeated use can cause problems etc....etc. It's best to stick with the advice of a Vet whom you have confidence in and whom you trust. Even Vets cant agree on the 'best' protocol so us lot dont stand a chance !!

One thing I will 'say' and I am sure that you are already doing so, is to be mega vigilant re minimising the risk of any of the Rabbits ingesting urine contaminated hay/food. I'd make using raised feeders a norm from now on, whether the Rabbits are on Panacur or not. As I have said, I am sure you are doing this anyway x
 
Vegan_Bunny said:
Thank you. Saw the vet today and she's put on a tiny bit of weight. This is excellent news because she has been losing weight and even though it's only a tiny bit she's put on, I'm hoping this is another sign that she's turned a corner. Her reflexes still aren't good (no reaction when her front paws are touched to the edge of the table) however Tom seemed quite happy with her progress. He looked at her eyes as well and they seem much better (they both had ulcers). We are continuing all the meds for a while yet. He wants her to have the panacur for longer than a month just to make sure and he's also suggested to worm her 3-4 times a year. He has said there's no evidence that panacur does anything (apparently the research was done with cells under the microscope and not actual rabbits so it's rather sketchy) but he said it won't hurt to do this. Better safe than sorry imo!

Do you think they'd all need worming routinely in this case? I don't mind since Shadowfax and Fiver seem to rather like the panacur. They take it completely voluntarily. :shock: :lol:
Click to expand...

It's such a difficult call with the Panacur, as I've had good results and I've had bad side effects!

Has your vet suggested you routinely worm all of your rabbits 3/4 times a year?
 
Thanks Jane. I know vets can't agree on the panacur. I think there's definitely more research needed on the subject.
I am currently using a makeshift hayrack (an old wire hanging basket hanging on some drawers over the litter tray). So far they have not tried to jump in it (my main worry) and they seem to be enjoying it. Obviously I can't stop them eating what falls out but they seem to be eating the majority of hay from the hayrack.
As for pellets, I scatter feed by throwing the food on the floor...I've stopped scattering it in the litter tray but do you think bowls would be better? My worry is that Xena is very aggressive at feeding time and also really wolf's her food. I usually use treat balls but obviously not since she's been ill.
Would you believe Fiver stopped eating tonight? He gave me a heart attack but he had some meds and infacol and suddenly started eating again. I am wondering if he needs a dental. :( He's been happily munching hay as if nothing happened so hoping it was just gas. I'm so stressed at the moment I don't think I could take it if it was his teeth.

MightyMax - He just suggested it for Xena but I figured it would be pointless only doing Xena?
 
Vegan_Bunny said:
Thanks Jane. I know vets can't agree on the panacur. I think there's definitely more research needed on the subject.
I am currently using a makeshift hayrack (an old wire hanging basket hanging on some drawers over the litter tray). So far they have not tried to jump in it (my main worry) and they seem to be enjoying it. Obviously I can't stop them eating what falls out but they seem to be eating the majority of hay from the hayrack.
As for pellets, I scatter feed by throwing the food on the floor...I've stopped scattering it in the litter tray but do you think bowls would be better? My worry is that Xena is very aggressive at feeding time and also really wolf's her food. I usually use treat balls but obviously not since she's been ill.
Would you believe Fiver stopped eating tonight? He gave me a heart attack but he had some meds and infacol and suddenly started eating again. I am wondering if he needs a dental. :( He's been happily munching hay as if nothing happened so hoping it was just gas. I'm so stressed at the moment I don't think I could take it if it was his teeth.
Click to expand...

Hopefully it was just a blip for Fiver. I remember all too well what it can be like when my Rabbits timed their problems to occur simultaneously. Talk about stressful !

Again it is a matter of more debate as to whether in contact Rabbits should also be treated with Panacur. Thus far I have always done so, for the full 28 days. But some Exotics Vets state that the in contact Rabbits should have just a 9 day course . I believe this thinking was based on this study :

http://veterinaryrecord.bmj.com/content/148/15/478.abstract

It's all so complicated !! We can only do what we and our trusted Vet feel to be most appropriate in our specific situation.

Blimey, just thinking about EC stresses me out !
 
Also, wasn't Iain Cope ( Exotics Specialist Vet) hoping to obtain funding for a further study on EC :? Or did I dream that :?
 
Vegan_Bunny said:
Thanks Jane. I know vets can't agree on the panacur. I think there's definitely more research needed on the subject.
I am currently using a makeshift hayrack (an old wire hanging basket hanging on some drawers over the litter tray). So far they have not tried to jump in it (my main worry) and they seem to be enjoying it. Obviously I can't stop them eating what falls out but they seem to be eating the majority of hay from the hayrack.
As for pellets, I scatter feed by throwing the food on the floor...I've stopped scattering it in the litter tray but do you think bowls would be better? My worry is that Xena is very aggressive at feeding time and also really wolf's her food. I usually use treat balls but obviously not since she's been ill.
Would you believe Fiver stopped eating tonight? He gave me a heart attack but he had some meds and infacol and suddenly started eating again. I am wondering if he needs a dental. :( He's been happily munching hay as if nothing happened so hoping it was just gas. I'm so stressed at the moment I don't think I could take it if it was his teeth.

MightyMax - He just suggested it for Xena but I figured it would be pointless only doing Xena?
Click to expand...

Yeah, well I agree with you, but I'm not a vet :)

I would go with my gut instinct on this one ... If it seems right to follow vet's advice, then perhaps good to do that :thumb:
 
We need a new "confuddled" smiley specifically for talks about EC! :lol: I would hope some more research is done on the subject (although I hope it's not on lab rabbits :( ). It's such a common disease and it's so nasty you'd think somebody would fund further research on prevention, cure and also diagnosis. I think I've seen about 5 threads pop up regarding EC just in the past week. :(
Also I wanted to know if anybody thinks the EC could have come from my rats? I've had them nearly a year now and I was thinking if it was from them Xena would have shown symptoms before now? I keep the rats as separate as possible but obviously they do flick their litter out of the cage and I can't always keep it tidy. I hoover and sweep as often as I can.

So far Fiver seems absolutely fine. I'm going to give him another dose of cisapride just to make sure his guts keep going but I'm almost certain it was gas. He was shifting constantly and very "twitchy" when he was not eating as if he had stomach cramps. When it's his teeth, generally he's very quiet and just hides and looks very sorry for himself. I'm hoping that's the case anyway!

Xena is doing really, really well. :love: Last night she actually laid down properly for the first time since her seizure and then as if to show off she kept laying down in different positions until she found the comfiest and settled there. (Not in a way that suggested she was uncomfortable or in pain!) :)
My Mam did try to give me a heart attack tonight, though! I walked in and she said. "Xena was acting funny when I got in from work." (She always goes up to give them some hay when she gets in from work. :) ) I think she must have seen the panic in my face because she said "No, no. Not like that! She kept following me around the room and refused to let me leave without me giving her nose rubs! I was stood there for about 10 minutes before I could leave!" :lol: :lol: She has become a very cuddly bunny. I'd like to think that she knows us humans helped to make her feel better. She's been such a good girl with taking her meds, even though she dislikes the panacur and the cisapride. I think the porridge and the sunflower heart have helped greatly with her feelings towards me. :lol:

I just want to thank you all for being there for me and helping me (and therefore Xena) through this. :) I've really appreciated every comment on here and you've been so much help.
Jane - I don't know what we'd do without your vast knowledge and extremely helpful links! :D
 
I'm so glad that Xena is doing better. :) Long may it continue!
It's amazing how they suddenly get cuddly when you'd think that with all the medicating and fussing about, they'd want to be miles from you! :lol: I'm glad that Fiver's trouble seemed temporary, I hope he remains healthy too. :) xxxx
 
Vegan_Bunny said:
We need a new "confuddled" smiley specifically for talks about EC! :lol: I would hope some more research is done on the subject (although I hope it's not on lab rabbits :( ). It's such a common disease and it's so nasty you'd think somebody would fund further research on prevention, cure and also diagnosis. I think I've seen about 5 threads pop up regarding EC just in the past week. :(
Also I wanted to know if anybody thinks the EC could have come from my rats? I've had them nearly a year now and I was thinking if it was from them Xena would have shown symptoms before now? I keep the rats as separate as possible but obviously they do flick their litter out of the cage and I can't always keep it tidy. I hoover and sweep as often as I can.

So far Fiver seems absolutely fine. I'm going to give him another dose of cisapride just to make sure his guts keep going but I'm almost certain it was gas. He was shifting constantly and very "twitchy" when he was not eating as if he had stomach cramps. When it's his teeth, generally he's very quiet and just hides and looks very sorry for himself. I'm hoping that's the case anyway!

Xena is doing really, really well. :love: Last night she actually laid down properly for the first time since her seizure and then as if to show off she kept laying down in different positions until she found the comfiest and settled there. (Not in a way that suggested she was uncomfortable or in pain!) :)
My Mam did try to give me a heart attack tonight, though! I walked in and she said. "Xena was acting funny when I got in from work." (She always goes up to give them some hay when she gets in from work. :) ) I think she must have seen the panic in my face because she said "No, no. Not like that! She kept following me around the room and refused to let me leave without me giving her nose rubs! I was stood there for about 10 minutes before I could leave!" :lol: :lol: She has become a very cuddly bunny. I'd like to think that she knows us humans helped to make her feel better. She's been such a good girl with taking her meds, even though she dislikes the panacur and the cisapride. I think the porridge and the sunflower heart have helped greatly with her feelings towards me. :lol:

I just want to thank you all for being there for me and helping me (and therefore Xena) through this. :) I've really appreciated every comment on here and you've been so much help.
Jane - I don't know what we'd do without your vast knowledge and extremely helpful links! :D
Click to expand...


Glad to hear that Xena and Fiver are doing OK at the moment. I can imagine the immediate panic you felt when your Mum said Xena had been 'acting funny' !! I think I would have keeled over. Sounds as though Xena is your Mum's boss :lol:

I know what you mean about the EC research issue. On the one hand we need more research if Vets are ever to gain better information about the disease, it's treatment and maybe one day it's prevention. But on the other hand if that has to involve vivisection......................:cry:

Rather like the way the single dose VHD Vaccines were derived. I did have my Rabbits vaccinated with it, but I felt such a hypocrite really.

'Method of Manufacture' is noted here

http://www.oie.int/fileadmin/Home/eng/Health_standards/tahm/2.06.02_RHD.pdf

:cry:
 
While you can't completely convince yourself that the EC didn't come from the rats, I have Tinkerbell, who has been with me since 6 months old, seven years with no signs of EC then this year she suddenly and very quickly went blind from cataracts, she was tested to have an active infection of EC. She hasn't had any new contacts with rabbits/other animals for over three years so it's most likely just been in her system but not an active infection til now. So, that could apply to Xena as well.
 
I did think the new vaccine didn't use livers. :( It's rather irritating that doing the right thing usually involves suffering of animals/people. :( Rather frustrating. Vaccinating is not something I would stop, although it does upset me that lab rabbits are being killed to save pet ones. :(

Xena is doing well. She's really pestering me whenever I'm in the room but I think it's just because she's been getting the porridge and sunflower hearts. She also gets nose rubs whenever she hops up to me so I guess it's my own fault. :lol: She has dribbled urine a little but I took her off the cisapride, so perhaps it's something to do with that? I don't know. :( It worries me but it wasn't a lot so hoping it was just an accident. She's not wet underneath. Her ear seems to be bothering her a little as well. To be honest she does have quite sensitive ears and Tom checked them when she stayed in overnight but obviously I am worried that she has an inner ear infection going on. I would presume, however, that without treatment it would just get worse and she wouldn't improve? Without xrays/CT scans I can't rule it out but I really can't afford to do that any time soon. Her ear has stayed stuck up, which is a sign she is feeling ok within herself so I don't know if I'm just being paranoid. :lol:

I'm about to put some pics up that I've taken with my good camera. After all this with Xena, it made me realise that I haven't taken pics nearly as much as I should have. I got some rather cute ones. :)
 
Vegan_Bunny said:
I did think the new vaccine didn't use livers. :( It's rather irritating that doing the right thing usually involves suffering of animals/people. :( Rather frustrating. Vaccinating is not something I would stop, although it does upset me that lab rabbits are being killed to save pet ones. :(

Xena is doing well. She's really pestering me whenever I'm in the room but I think it's just because she's been getting the porridge and sunflower hearts. She also gets nose rubs whenever she hops up to me so I guess it's my own fault. :lol: She has dribbled urine a little but I took her off the cisapride, so perhaps it's something to do with that? I don't know. :( It worries me but it wasn't a lot so hoping it was just an accident. She's not wet underneath. Her ear seems to be bothering her a little as well. To be honest she does have quite sensitive ears and Tom checked them when she stayed in overnight but obviously I am worried that she has an inner ear infection going on. I would presume, however, that without treatment it would just get worse and she wouldn't improve? Without xrays/CT scans I can't rule it out but I really can't afford to do that any time soon. Her ear has stayed stuck up, which is a sign she is feeling ok within herself so I don't know if I'm just being paranoid. :lol:

I'm about to put some pics up that I've taken with my good camera. After all this with Xena, it made me realise that I haven't taken pics nearly as much as I should have. I got some rather cute ones. :)
Click to expand...

I'm glad that Xena is doing OK and feeling better within herself. If her ear is bothering her one possibility, aside from infection, is ear mites. Or as she has had some issues with balance/mobility/use of hind legs she may have a build up of wax in her ears now (due to not being as able to scratch them herself) and the wax is annoying her.
 
Jack's-Jane said:
I'm glad that Xena is doing OK and feeling better within herself. If her ear is bothering her one possibility, aside from infection, is ear mites. Or as she has had some issues with balance/mobility/use of hind legs she may have a build up of wax in her ears now (due to not being as able to scratch them herself) and the wax is annoying her.
Click to expand...

Both of those could be likely. She does get ear mites now and again and I know her ears are quite dirty, although Tom cleaned them out pretty well when she stayed over night. She had them done only a few months before so perhaps it's just something she is prone to and it's worse now because of her balance issues. I must admit out of all three she grooms herself the least. :/ Obviously that's even more apparent now! Mucky bun!
 
Vegan_Bunny said:
Both of those could be likely. She does get ear mites now and again and I know her ears are quite dirty, although Tom cleaned them out pretty well when she stayed over night. She had them done only a few months before so perhaps it's just something she is prone to and it's worse now because of her balance issues. I must admit out of all three she grooms herself the least. :/ Obviously that's even more apparent now! Mucky bun!
Click to expand...

Yes, mites can also flare up when the Rabbit is or has been unwell. So it could be that.

My ears are all itchy now just from 'talking' about ear mites !!
 
Vegan_Bunny said:
I did think the new vaccine didn't use livers. :( It's rather irritating that doing the right thing usually involves suffering of animals/people. :( Rather frustrating. Vaccinating is not something I would stop, although it does upset me that lab rabbits are being killed to save pet ones. :(

Xena is doing well. She's really pestering me whenever I'm in the room but I think it's just because she's been getting the porridge and sunflower hearts. She also gets nose rubs whenever she hops up to me so I guess it's my own fault. :lol: She has dribbled urine a little but I took her off the cisapride, so perhaps it's something to do with that? I don't know. :( It worries me but it wasn't a lot so hoping it was just an accident. She's not wet underneath. Her ear seems to be bothering her a little as well. To be honest she does have quite sensitive ears and Tom checked them when she stayed in overnight but obviously I am worried that she has an inner ear infection going on. I would presume, however, that without treatment it would just get worse and she wouldn't improve? Without xrays/CT scans I can't rule it out but I really can't afford to do that any time soon. Her ear has stayed stuck up, which is a sign she is feeling ok within herself so I don't know if I'm just being paranoid. :lol:

I'm about to put some pics up that I've taken with my good camera. After all this with Xena, it made me realise that I haven't taken pics nearly as much as I should have. I got some rather cute ones. :)
Click to expand...

Haha, how to win over your rabbit eh? :lol:

Was Tom worried about Xena's ears when he kept her in overnight?
 
Tom checked her ears just to rule out the possibility of an ear infection, he flushed them and had a good look. She has always had "mucky" ears, not really bad but she gets a build up of wax and she does seem prone to ear mites. In fact a few weeks before she started with being wet she had had a course of ear drops because her ears were bothering her. Nothing major, just lopping her uppy ear and reacting when I played with her ears. Tom had a look and said they were waxy and this is probably why she was uncomfortable. After a few weeks of ear drops she was perfectly ok again. I am worried about an inner ear infection but at this point I can't justify an xray. I keep prodding and poking around her ears, checking for lumps or facial paralysis. :oops: I think I might be a bit paranoid.
 
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