multiple vet trips and issues could actually be one issue?

Hello everyone, I have an elderly (well not really, rabbits can live for many more years than this yet ) bunny who is almost eight called Tina. I was her fourth home so this figure has come from her adoption day, I've had her seven and a half years but she wasn't a baby when I got her so she could be eight already. I always assumed she was just a few months with her thin sharp nails though :wave:

Anyway we've recently had a few vet trips and every diagnosis was basically 'she's just old' and has been delt with as it came and treated if neeccissary. Looking at all of the cases together I'm wondering if there is something more going on...

September, took my pair to my new vets to get vaccinated and for a general health check. i asked if Annabelle was over weight and if Tina was skinny, Annabelle was perfectly fine it was just a dewlap from hormones and not fat (she is spayed :wave and he said Tina was slim but it was probably just her age and that she's still a good weight and not to worry.

Some time in October or November she had a watery eye. Obviousley all the serious issues ran around in my head but he said her teeth were absolutely perfect and it was just conjunctivitis and gave me some ointment, it dissapeared within a few days he said that in older bunnies the infection can flare up because they're not so good at fighting it off.

When I went to get my new male, Wayne, checked out In November for his pre castration I brought her along because two bunnies checked over count as one consultation so might as well :wave: scamming the vets haha. She's been snoring for a while and I've already been told its fine but she was getting louder. He just said her vitals were fine and it probably just because of her age and the pallet or whatever you call it relaxing.

In March I took her because she wasn't eating properly, or so I thought because the next day she was totally fine. No abscesses, teeth are no longer perfect as they were in Octoberish time with slight elevation of the archaic (think that's the word) molars but not enough so that it would cause any problems at all, probably just due to her age. He said he doesn't know why she was spitting out food because she's totally perfect other wise and doesn't think its her teeth at all. he didn't think there was a problem at all and because she was totally fine I just thought I over reacted.

I've just come home for a couple of weeks (going home in a couple days) and my buns have had the run of a 8x10 shed. They're normally house rabbits but go out into the run so they're no strangers to outside weather and it's certainly warmed up a lot now however, she seems much more slow and reluctant to come to me. Of course it's 'she's just slowing down now because of old age' but I was wondering if athritus could be the cause of all of these vet trips?

In the cooler outdoor weather it might have made the athritus (if it's there) worse and that's why she's slowed down a lot more than when she's inside with me. Can't wait to get home to her fluffy cat beds and hoomin comforts I'll tell you now :lol: The slimmer weight could be due to prehaps muscle wastage from her not running around as much, she does sit with me like a little lap cat (although she's far too superior to sit on laps, she will sit next to me and I WILL pet her :lol I don't know much about conjunctivitis but maybe she was put off cleaning because of sitting on her hind legs so an infection set in? I've already given her steps to get into the bed because she seemed reluctant to jump up and I usually lift her onto the sofa if she puts her paw up. She wasn't eating right one minuet but the next she was fine so I'm thinking maybe she was having a sore day and the reason there seems to be no cause in the mouth or vitals is because she's in pain from athritus?

That being said if I suspect athritus I want to have an examination of course but I'm feeling like an X-ray will be suggested and if so does that involve GA? Id like to avoid that as much as possible so do you think a diagnosis could be made without it and treatment (I believe Metacam is quite successful as well acupuncture and injections) can start rather than putting her through that? Or does it sound like it could be something else? I'm just worried for her :roll: :roll:

Has she ever been on Metacam for any length of time? Metacam is very effective against arthritis, but over time it can also be very hard on the kidneys. If your vet agreed to try her on it, you may find her behaviour changes for the better It may be worth thinking of doing this as a first step ...

Most diagnoses of arthritis are made by observation but X-rays can be taken to look for signs of joint and bone deterioration and inflammation. This would probably require sedation.

There is of course the option of acupuncture which has been very successful in some rabbits. Some vets also have physiotherapists on board and I have been present at quite a few of these sessions at Rescue Centres.

There are also various supplements that can be given to rabbits which help with arthritis. I've used these in the past, but your vet needs to be quite savvy in the use of these.

Other things that can help are low entry litter trays (I use a gardener's potting tray - very large and almost 'walk in'), soft bedding and heat pads.

I hope something there helps you a little :thumb:

I had an elderly rabbit (lived until 12!) and he had arthritis and he slowed down but metacam perked him back up :thumb: You could also try just making sure everything is accessible and low to the ground etc but I'm sure everything is already! If you wanted a definitive diagnosis then a GA would be necessary for x-rays (vets only really do conscious x-rays for unstable/very unwell patients e.g. RTAs). It's very hard to do conscious x-rays, and it requires pulling the legs around a bit so might be painful conscious as well. X-rays would also help determine the limb/area the arthritis is in.

I don't think non-grooming can cause conjunctivitis. My Flo has reoccuring conjunctivitis, she's only young, her teeth were perfect, even x-rayed her skull and it was fine! Sometimes I think it can be trauma that can cause it so it might be that so nothing to worry about too much.

Hope this helps a little x

Last year I was the owner of 4 rabbits aged 12-13. I have since lost three of them and one of them is now 14 years old (my oldest bunny ever). I also adopted a 2 year old.
Although my vet would call it my geriatric ward, he would never dismiss their problems as being from old age.
Of course the bunnies general condition can impact the treatment options and risks of treatments.

While your bunny may have lost muscle from not hopping as much in the colder shed, your bunny may also have lost weight because she was putting more energy into keeping warm.

MightyMax gave you some great information. She is correct that Metacam can help arthritis in many cases. She is also correct that it is hard on the kidneys which is why my vet is cautious with the dosage. My 14 year old gets it every day. It helped a lot, especially when he was first diagnosed.

Kidney problems can also cause bunnies to lose weight and get weak, so some additional tests may be needed.

My bunny is very tolerant, so he was able to have X-rays without GA that clearly showed the arthritis in his spine.

I agree that arthritis may be part of the problem. I dont think all her 'symptoms' can simply be attributed to 'her age' though. Personally I would want to start by having a Rabbit Savvy Vet examine her. Dental problems may now be contributing to her problems, even if this was not thought to be the case, especially as changes have already been noted between last October and this March.

Tooth Root elongation can become an issue for older Rabbits, this cannot be seen by just looking at the crowns. Skull radiographs are the only way to diagnose TRE. The longer the crowns of the teeth become the more rapidly TRE can progress.Some signs that might suggest TRE is a factor are bouts of dacryocystis (runny eyes)/conjunctivitis and also snoring/sneezing/nasal discharge. Weight loss can also occur as can a more subdued mood. Eating may be reduced, or may fluctuate from day to day. The Rabbit may appear to be eating relatively 'normally'. But they are infact eating much more slowly and if they live with another Rabbit then that Rabbit may be eating most of the food.

If, after careful examination, the Vet feels that arthritis may be present then a trial of a NSAID such as Metacam could bring about some improvement in her mobility. The Vet may want to run a blood profile to determine how her major organ function is doing. The dose range of Metacam varies and needs to be adjusted accordingly in certain circumstances.

The other thing to mention is that she is now living outdoors yet has previously always lived indoors. It is still a bit too early in the year to move an indoor Rabbit to live outdoors 24/7, even in a shed. The Rabbit will not have developed a full winter coat (due to previously living indoors) and may struggle to maintain their body temperature. This would contribute to weightloss- the Rabbit uses more calories to try to keep warm. If I have mis-understood what you have said about moving the Rabbits outdoors recently then I apologise.

I do think that another trip to the Vets is needed. I would also weigh your Rabbit every 2-3 days to make sure weightloss is not an ongoing issue. 3 consecutive 'unexplained' losses merits prompt Veterinary attention.

Hope all will go well at the Vets

bunny momma said:

Last year I was the owner of 4 rabbits aged 12-13. I have since lost three of them and one of them is now 14 years old (my oldest bunny ever). I also adopted a 2 year old.
Although my vet would call it my geriatric ward, he would never dismiss their problems as being from old age.
Of course the bunnies general condition can impact the treatment options and risks of treatments.

While your bunny may have lost muscle from not hopping as much in the colder shed, your bunny may also have lost weight because she was putting more energy into keeping warm.

MightyMax gave you some great information. She is correct that Metacam can help arthritis in many cases. She is also correct that it is hard on the kidneys which is why my vet is cautious with the dosage. My 14 year old gets it every day. It helped a lot, especially when he was first diagnosed.

Kidney problems can also cause bunnies to lose weight and get weak, so some additional tests may be needed.

My bunny is very tolerant, so he was able to have X-rays without GA that clearly showed the arthritis in his spine.

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This is a very valid point.

Old age *can* bring certain problems with it, but not necessarily. My little girl turns 13 years old this year and has no arthritis

Bunny Momma also says that kidney problems influence appetite. This is very true. Only a blood test would show how the kidneys are working, and then only if they are severely compromised xx

I think I need a change in vets then :? They said they specialise in rabbits but obviousley not by the sounds of things. She's not actively loosing weight, she's just slimmer than the other two so I'm hopful it's nothing to do with the kidneys or anything. Going to have a full check over, the teeth problem does sound very plausible so I was hoping to get blood work and x-Rays done. Does anyone know the likely cost of each of these, just so I don't pull the shocked face when I ask at the vets :lol:

Shes been inside for a few months and hasn't lived indoors all her life, I suppose that doesn't matter with her coat growing thick though but we're all indoors again nice and warm now Id have loved to keep them indoors during my stay at home but it wasn't my house so I didn't want to disrespect thier wishes. The weather has been around the 14-17o mark which Is why I didn't think it was too bad since the house is normally in the 16-20 range (we don't put the heating on unless we absolutely need to in winter to stop the pipes freezing, not with perfectly usable jumpers about! :lol: poor student problems). I feel guilty for subjecting them to it now they must have been cold but I did use a snuggle safe every night so hopefully that helped

Also I've been reading more into E.C and want to get them all on a course of panacur just to be on the safe side. Does anyone think there would be a problem of me using this if I want to get blood work done, like it won't have an effect on the results will it? Thought I'd ask on here before ringing them to check and sounding like a moron :lol: xx

Update :wave: she does have athritus so she's on course of metacam to see how that helps her. So far she's coming out and hopping about much more which is a good sign. If it gets any worse the vets down the road advertise alternative therapies like acupuncture. I think they probably get more cats and dogs :lol: but if they're experianced with rabbits I'll give it a shot, I want to keep that up my sleeve for if it gets worse though as a bit of relief since the metacam is doing its job. I've been giving her a snuggle safe every morning and night when the heating hasn't been on for a while, just so she's nice and warm and it helps her circulation and joint. I've also been looking into glucosamine supplements and I know they won't make any notifiable difference for 4 weeks+ But if anyone knows a good one Im all ears? I also read somewhere about certain foods that are good to feed but couldn't find the page again! :lol: typical. So if anyone has any suggestions let me know