What would you say to Nick Griffin of the BNP given 10 mins with him?

[NickieM]

Willow, you started this thread to engage with people and find out their views. Just because we don't all share your opinion that capital punishment is justified, doesn't mean you should be patronising. You should be open to other people's views as we are to yours.

The biblical argument is a non-starter. The bible isn't one document, but a patchwork of papers which often contradict each other. If you quote a piece, there is sure to be another that is in polarity to it. Jesus also said to turn the other cheek. I prefer to make my judgements on how today's society functions, rather than that of one 2000 years ago.

I don't see how the crime of killing a child is any worse than killing an adult. Surely, if you condemn killing, it should be for any age. What you decry is the method. Therefore, you could say that someone who rapes a child should be hung, what about the rapist of an adult. This opens a whole can of worms. At what age would you define a child not being a child. Would it be fair if the legal definition was reached and a spectacular murder was committed on someone who was a day over that age. Society would clamber for it to be carried out and then the line is crossed.

Child killers are abhorrent, but I see them as a consequence of society and society should deal with them in a way that shows our morality, not theirs.

As for torturing someone daily, would the person who made that statement really want to do that, and if not, why ask someone else to do it. It is far to dark and malevolent for me to believe.

 

[Nicolaj36]

As someone has already mentioned, making this personal is a cheap argument, of course you'd want revenge on anyone who harmed your own. That is not the same as Capital Punishment - legalised, national killing. It is a very different thing and should never be undertaken lightly, there are huge implications for such a thing should, God forbid, it ever be brought back (which it won't).

Why is it a cheap argument? It's a fact for the families who have to live the rest of their lives with the consequences of such evil.

 

[NickieM]

Why is it a cheap argument? It's a fact for the families who have to live the rest of their lives with the consequences of such evil.

Because it is using an emotive situation to create a change in legislation. Legislation should not be changed under these circumstances. It is the same with the Sarah's Law. This has caused more danger to children as sex offenders now seek to hide rather than have their whereabouts highlighted to the neighbourhood. Because parole and police don't know where they are, they are more of a danger. An example of emotion leading a policy change, but not improving it.

 

[willow the wisp]

Willow, you started this thread to engage with people and find out their views. Just because we don't all share your opinion that capital punishment is justified, doesn't mean you should be patronising. You should be open to other people's views as we are to yours.

The biblical argument is a non-starter. The bible isn't one document, but a patchwork of papers which often contradict each other. If you quote a piece, there is sure to be another that is in polarity to it. Jesus also said to turn the other cheek. I prefer to make my judgements on how today's society functions, rather than that of one 2000 years ago.

I don't see how the crime of killing a child is any worse than killing an adult. Surely, if you condemn killing, it should be for any age. What you decry is the method. Therefore, you could say that someone who rapes a child should be hung, what about the rapist of an adult. This opens a whole can of worms. At what age would you define a child not being a child. Would it be fair if the legal definition was reached and a spectacular murder was committed on someone who was a day over that age. Society would clamber for it to be carried out and then the line is crossed.

Child killers are abhorrent, but I see them as a consequence of society and society should deal with them in a way that shows our morality, not theirs.

As for torturing someone daily, would the person who made that statement really want to do that, and if not, why ask someone else to do it. It is far to dark and malevolent for me to believe.

I dont feel I've been patronising in the slightest, I've actually sat back while you have basically steam rollered all over my opinions. Who is to say that you are right? I have not said that my word should be everyones opinion. I happen to believe that child killers and killers of policemen should receive the death penalty. That is JUST MY OPINION, it is not a patronising post. I resent, as a taxpayer paying for the likes of Ian Huntley to languish in jail at a cost of aprox £100,000 a year while Jessica and Hollys parents lives are destroyed as well as their poor children. Who is to say that Ian Huntley would not have thought twice about killing those poor girls if the death penalty had been in force? You must respect an alternative view to that of your own.

 

[NickieM]

I dont feel I've been patronising in the slightest, I've actually sat back while you have basically steam rollered all over my opinions. Who is to say that you are right? I have not said that my word should be everyones opinion. I happen to believe that child killers and killers of policemen should receive the death penalty. That is JUST MY OPINION, it is not a patronising post. I resent, as a taxpayer paying for the likes of Ian Huntley to languish in jail at a cost of aprox £100,000 a year while Jessica and Hollys parents lives are destroyed as well as their poor children. Who is to say that Ian Huntley would not have thought twice about killing those poor girls if the death penalty had been in force? You must respect an alternative view to that of your own.

As Voltaire said, (and I paraphrase), I uphold your right to hold a different opinion. I just felt your flippancy earlier on was taking us to a place where nothing is achieved.

We agree to differ. I too resent the amount of money wasted on keeping people in prison, but would prefer to see preventative works carried out to anticipate and stop people ending up in jail. Better criminal justice and restorative justice services, better drug addiction treatment, better sex offender programmes, but mental health and education psychology. That to me would be money well spent.

Anyway, I am off to watch TV.

Thanks for a thought provoking thread as always.

 

[Nicolaj36]

As for torturing someone daily, would the person who made that statement really want to do that, and if not, why ask someone else to do it. It is far to dark and malevolent for me to believe.
__________________
I made that statement, and yes, in cases such as these i would do it without a thought.

I am a very laid back, gentle, and give everyone a second chance type of person, but in circumstances such as these my blood boils so much it shocks even me!

The fact that these people destroy lives and families, then go on to live out their lives in relative comfort, (some of which they have never even known previously) is abhorrent to me!

 

[willow the wisp]

As Voltaire said, (and I paraphrase), I uphold your right to hold a different opinion. I just felt your flippancy earlier on was taking us to a place where nothing is achieved.

We agree to differ. I too resent the amount of money wasted on keeping people in prison, but would prefer to see preventative works carried out to anticipate and stop people ending up in jail. Better criminal justice and restorative justice services, better drug addiction treatment, better sex offender programmes, but mental health and education psychology. That to me would be money well spent.

Anyway, I am off to watch TV.

Thanks for a thought provoking thread as always.

:wave:

 

[Azraelm]

Moved to heated debates :wave:

 

[willow the wisp]

why on earth was this moved? :?

 

[Azraelm]

why on earth was this moved? :?

So it doesn't develop into a row

 

[nursecroft]

I resent the fact as a tax payer i pay to keep these psycho killers in prison, im afraid i think they should be humanely euthanized. I see all the points both sides of the arguement but thats how i feel. Some of the things these people have done are just beyond any comprehension.

 

[Jaysmonkey]

I'd set my hippo-goat-eagle thingmajig on him, make it fly over him, then do a great pile of Hippo dung on his face Though even that treatment is far too good for him!