What the heck causes stasis???!!!

[Ambience]

I'd imagine veg to be a culprit as i've always(up until coming on this forum) fed high pellet and unlimited hay diet and not had any problems with not eating, tummy etc. The only time one of my bunnys hasn't dashed over for pellets is directly after neutering just when recovering,but quickly they are back to there old selfs.

Since being on the forum i've seen weight come off some of my buns when changing them to greens and a 10gram diet of pellets and problems imerged that were not there before(this may just have been co-incidence or i can put it down to the healing process- i.e the body releasing toxins because they are being fed more correctly), so i'd definately say it's important to treat each bunny as an individual having studied the effects of diet on my own buns. I now give my buns a handful of pellets- which works out about 30grams, and the majority hay. They seem to be doing well on this. I also veg minimally at the moment, which seems to be working well.

I never ever feed sugary commercial treats- i do feed the odd carrot- I do give adonia carrots every other day though and i have never had any problems with her, teeth wise, stasis wise- except that she has pasturella.

My other bunnys seemed to be happier overall on a high pellet, unlimited hay diet, than when i changed it around. So to comprimise i've reduced the pellets , increased the times i top up fresh hay( despite hay being out all day long) and feed occasional veg and herbs to supplement the diet. I don't overfeed veg as this does seem to upset there digestive systems and cause runny poos. Pellets have never upset my rabbits digestive systems in all the time i've had rabbits.

I have had problems with rabbits being off hay, never pellets.

Stasis i didn't really know about until i came to this forum and from what i've read it sounds quite serious. I know my rabbits have been off food for 12 hours-24 hours after neutering, but i wouldn't say they have really experienced a gi stasis episode. Although perhaps that period could be classed as stasis.

I really enjoyed reading other peoples views on this.

Ambience xx

 

[Snowy]

This is identical to Nino's story. Except the chronic pain was due to early onset arthritis in his hips and knees that he hid completely from us, normal mobility and gait etc. you just wouldn't have known, the ONLY symptom for the first two years was recurrent bloat/stasis. Diagnosis and correct medication and the bloat/stasis has disappeared.

I could quote many other cases of that too, but people always assume that's it's a food or gut problem when that is not neccessarily so, I really wish that vets would look into the root cause more often rather than just treating the symptoms, I am so pleased that Nino is better and that you got the help he needed.

 

[thumps_]

Stasis is very serious Ambience. It often caused death until a few years ago when we found that by getting our buns to a vet early, & improved treatment regimes, many more buns began to survive. But even with the best, some buns still die.

Buns don't have the body chemistry to use energy stores like we do. They work on a poops out / food in principal.
They are at immediate risk of dehydration.
If they don't poop or eat for 48 hours they are also at risk of fatty liver damage (hepatic lipidosis) as well as changes in the blood chemicals caused by ketones ( the products of trying to use energy stores for too long).
In basic English, their whole body gets in an almighty mess, & we sometimes can't get them out of it!

So the sooner we get the gut working again, the less "damage" is done & the better the chances of recovery.

As a rough rule of thumb if a bun han't pooped for 12 hours, & is still eating a bit, but otherise behaving normally, & the belly is soft with bowel sounds we'd phone for advice, & definitely see the vet if it continued for 24 hours.

Bloat = gut swelling up with gas needs a vet immediately.

If you put your ear to the bun's side & there are no/ very few, bowel sounds (gurgles) for 2 mins, they need to see a vet immediately.

If a bun has a tense / hard belly (advanced bloat) or is hunched/grinding his teeth = severe belly pain they need to see a vet IMMEDIATELY whatever the timeof day or night.

[We haven't yet discussed bowel block = obstruction, often on a mass long fiber indigestable non food substance eg fur + dried out food & is the most difficult form to treat] It can now be diagnosed by blood glucose levels (+ XR for borderline cases).

So no matter how often we've got our bun through stasis it 's scary every time.

The tummy bunny mummies tend to be obsessed with their bun's poops, for smaller size, irregular shapes, fewer of them, as an early warning sign that the bowel isn't working properly.
Bloat buns often lie pressing their tummy to the ground in the early stages.

 

[thumps_]

I could quote many other cases of that too, but people always assume that's it's a food or gut problem when that is not neccessarily so, I really wish that vets would look into the root cause more often rather than just treating the symptoms, I am so pleased that Nino is better and that you got the help he needed.

I can add Thumps to a non-gut cause, although it's not the main issue. Because he doesn't drink enough he's prone to sludge (chalk) in his urine. Although it's never thick, he sometimes has to strain. It's painful for him to wee - (he gets cross), & can be enough to tip him over the edge when he needs a dental.
You are absolutely right here Snowy. A good vet will do a thorough examination, & blood tests to look for underlying causes.

My own bun has a very rare condition (only 1 other on the forum at present) where his immune system is destroying the nerves to his gut, mainly affecting the caecum.
Dental issues are probably the commonest cause overall.
ETA A bun's gut doesn't stop working for no reason.

 

[hellsdarkrose]

In Waffle's case as she never had stasis before she started eating pellets it was put down to the fact she for some reason could not process hard feed so on vet suggestion at the end of May we stopped feeding her hard feed so her diet is now veg and hay.

Since then she has had one episode of bloat but after we went to the vets we found evidence of worms in her poo and found out that worms can cause excesses of gas so I am confident at present that our new feeding approach is going well.

 

[hurricanhoney]

Please don't anyone feel guilty on here. Neither can I follow a low pellet option, or the weight falls off Thumps too. He can't put much food in his caecum to let the good bacteria release the nutrients from it. Neither does he absorb water or drink enough.

I'm trying to say (rather badly) that if we understand the rock bottom basics of what is going on, we can help our buns a bit more on an individual basis.
We can also think of diet as 3 basic components - Fiber, nutrients, & fluid, & work out for ourselves, together with our buns, what suits them best.
With fiber I'm finding several stasis buns who go crackers for hawthorn/bramble leaves. Dental buns prefer them dry (easier to chew like crisps). If we can get them, they can have them freely, cos like hay there's very little nutrient in them.

It's possible that Frankie is also a little low on fluids from breathing more quickly. I moisten Thumper's pellets with water so he can still pick them up but they are soft, to improve fluid intake.

Thanks for that I've got some dried brambles so will try them later. He's been back to the vets and the respiratory infection is back so he is back on his long course of antibiotics and a steriod injection.

 

[bensonlola]

This is all really helpful guys. I think that what Lola has had has been a touch of gas and she's only had it one other time in the year that I've had the bunnies. My coarse of action would be to take her to the vets if she's not eating within half an hour of my noticing her discomfort or lack of appitite. Am I being too quick to wisk her off to vet? What can I do to help relieve the symptoms myself? I think it was Thumps who said that sometimes a vets examination is enough to relieve the problem. Should I perhaps give tummy rubbs for an hour or so? Make her move about??? The only trouble is that that stresses her out and would put her off eating anyway - she just ends up running away from me!! :roll:

 

[Blackberry & Co]

This is all really helpful guys. I think that what Lola has had has been a touch of gas and she's only had it one other time in the year that I've had the bunnies. My coarse of action would be to take her to the vets if she's not eating within half an hour of my noticing her discomfort or lack of appitite. Am I being too quick to wisk her off to vet? What can I do to help relieve the symptoms myself? I think it was Thumps who said that sometimes a vets examination is enough to relieve the problem. Should I perhaps give tummy rubbs for an hour or so? Make her move about??? The only trouble is that that stresses her out and would put her off eating anyway - she just ends up running away from me!! :roll:

If it's mild gas then doing a bit of running about would help shift it.

Clo is reluctant to move when gassy,but will happily sit cuddled up in a fleecy blanket and have his tummy gently massaged. Twice we have done this for half an hour before calling the vets, and he has done a trump and started to eat and move about again. On other occasions it hasn't worked and he's had to have vet tretament.

 

[bensonlola]

If it's mild gas then doing a bit of running about would help shift it.

Clo is reluctant to move when gassy,but will happily sit cuddled up in a fleecy blanket and have his tummy gently massaged. Twice we have done this for half an hour before calling the vets, and he has done a trump and started to eat and move about again. On other occasions it hasn't worked and he's had to have vet tretament.

So you'd leave it about half an hour then, give tummy rubs, but take to the vet if no joy within half hour?

 

[Blackberry & Co]

So you'd leave it about half an hour then, give tummy rubs, but take to the vet if no joy within half hour?

Yes, simply because I might have to use the larger branch if the local one is closed (they are a small branch and some mornings/afternoons have no surgery), so I have to travel 20 - 30 mins to get there depending on traffic, plus the sooner you phone the more likely you are to get an earlier appointment.

If a tummy rub is going to work for Clo then it will work within 30 minutes.

 

[bensonlola]

Yes, simply because I might have to use the larger branch if the local one is closed (they are a small branch and some mornings/afternoons have no surgery), so I have to travel 20 - 30 mins to get there depending on traffic, plus the sooner you phone the more likely you are to get an earlier appointment.

If a tummy rub is going to work for Clo then it will work within 30 minutes.

Well I think that will be my plan of action if it ever happens again. Prayin that it wont!! I'll try the tummy rubs, wrapped in a towel for half an hour but I wont leav it any longer than that. Thank goodness for insurance! Yours excludes that tho doesn't it!! Bummer dude!

 

[Blackberry & Co]

Well I think that will be my plan of action if it ever happens again. Prayin that it wont!! I'll try the tummy rubs, wrapped in a towel for half an hour but I wont leav it any longer than that. Thank goodness for insurance! Yours excludes that tho doesn't it!! Bummer dude!

Dan is the only one without a 'gut' exemption - and Butters only has stasis after the GA for his neuter - he's been fine since.

Fleecy blanket is warmer than a towel, which helps shift the gas.

 

[bensonlola]

Dan is the only one without a 'gut' exemption - and Butters only has stasis after the GA for his neuter - he's been fine since.

Fleecy blanket is warmer than a towel, which helps shift the gas.

Aww little Lola wrapped up in a fleecy blanket. I'll get her a pink one, but I hope I never need it! Hope your boys are in the best of health! Did you ever give them the hawthorne leaves?

 

[Blackberry & Co]

Aww little Lola wrapped up in a fleecy blanket. I'll get her a pink one, but I hope I never need it! Hope your boys are in the best of health! Did you ever give them the hawthorne leaves?

They are ADDICTED to hawthorn leaves :shock:

I picked loads the other day - ended up with three large baskets full of leaves.

They are also addicted to fenugreek crunchies now - they're the only commercial treat they get, and they have one each a day. They practically take my hand off for them! If one of them refuses a fenugreek crunchie then I will know that they are ill....

 

[bensonlola]

They are ADDICTED to hawthorn leaves :shock:

I picked loads the other day - ended up with three large baskets full of leaves.

They are also addicted to fenugreek crunchies now - they're the only commercial treat they get, and they have one each a day. They practically take my hand off for them! If one of them refuses a fenugreek crunchie then I will know that they are ill....

I have a hawthorne hedge at the bottom of my garden so I must pick some. Do you pick em and save em or just give them all to the boys?

 

[Blackberry & Co]

I have a hawthorne hedge at the bottom of my garden so I must pick some. Do you pick em and save em or just give them all to the boys?

I'm drying some for the days when it's too wet to go foraging. Plus we don't have any local hawthorn :shock: So I have to drive out a little way for it, so I pick loads to make it worthwhile.

Bet Benson & Lola will love it.

 

[thumps_]

They are ADDICTED to hawthorn leaves :shock:

I picked loads the other day - ended up with three large baskets full of leaves.

They are also addicted to fenugreek crunchies now - they're the only commercial treat they get, and they have one each a day. They practically take my hand off for them! If one of them refuses a fenugreek crunchie then I will know that they are ill....

That's because many buns know what natural plants help their tummies.
There's a massive grin all over my face, because the little fella who showed me about it is pictured below. It was easy to establish that hawthorn was bunny safe.

 

[Terri_louise177]

This thread is excellent. I really want to get some brambles and hawthorn for Charlie and April. Does anyone have any pics of Hawthorn as google is throwing a lot of different looking plants at me :shock:. And any advice on what to pick and what to leave? Thank you xxxx

 

[thumps_]

Common hawthorn leaves look like this:

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgu...ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:14,s:32&biw=1016&bih=589

"Midland" hawthorn has 3 lobes to the leaves & looks like:
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgu...=1t:429,r:4,s:32&tx=81&ty=78&biw=1016&bih=589

When I Googled it, I got many different types of hawthorn, but most eg the red flowered type are only found in gardens.
It flowers in May with white or slightly pink tinged blossom in sprays - the berries "haws" are red as seen.

I do not feed any berries with hard seeds to my bun eg hawthorn/rose hips. Small "bird" seeds can form blockages in a rabbit's gut. If hard there is a slight risk of tooth damage.
Hawthorn buds/berries have a chemical which slows the heart rate, & is used in herbal medicine for bunnies with diseases causing a fast heart rate, or high blood pressure. Because we don't want those effects on a healthy bun I don't feed these parts to a bun either. (Source of information- "Rabbit Health in the 21st. century" - Kathy Smith.

 

[Blackberry & Co]

I have found some of the hawthorn that has far less thorns - so I'm picking loads of it!!!!